VFL 2023 Swans Reserves

[bedford]

BP is a champion.. I've worked with him across tennis and AFL .. he saw a space in the tennis market and attacked it.. and now he's the Tennis Guy in Australia .. I feel for him because he's an old Fitzroy fan and since they became Brisbane, he fell away from that and I'm saying this on a Forum where Sydney went through the same thing.. there is probably a lot of old SM supporters who still feel the same 40 odd years on. Agree with the other 2 names .. and you're right about Jase .. I was fortunate to spend 70 odd minutes on the phone with him a while back and we talked all of the things you said .. and with some of the callers we have here that are coming through, we get them to watch all of his games. Jase probably does about 20 hours of prep for each game he calls .. last week he called VFL/AFL in the same day.. so his Friday/Saturday would have been all research and prep.. and if you use 5-percent of your research in the call, you're in for a great day.. where as some callers just show up.

Personally; I probably spend five to six hours a week; and then during the breaks; crunching the stats for each quarter to see what patterns unfolded.. we came up with a key one in the first half that Brisbane were +21 from 0-20 minutes and were +21 in time-on; statistically they score a lot of goals in junk time; which means if you're the opposition doing prep.. you need to be just as attacking from minutes 20 to 25 than from 0 to 5 .. otherwise, you get killed.

Where from in Victoria

 

[dosser]

BP is a great caller on SEN , but he's another one who's started to call it a ball and not a kick. I regard JB and BT as flogs as it's all about them and they've started calling it a wobly ball , a long one etc , why do others have to copy them , Jason Bennett is a fantastic called and he should be listened to for those learning the caper .

I think just about everyone on here would say Bennett is the cream of the crop at the moment.

 

[TheMase]

I think just about everyone on here would say Bennett is the cream of the crop at the moment.

Speed is pretty good too.
These guys just get on with it without the boys club nonsense

 

[dosser]

BP is a champion.. I've worked with him across tennis and AFL .. he saw a space in the tennis market and attacked it.. and now he's the Tennis Guy in Australia .. I feel for him because he's an old Fitzroy fan and since they became Brisbane, he fell away from that and I'm saying this on a Forum where Sydney went through the same thing.. there is probably a lot of old SM supporters who still feel the same 40 odd years on. Agree with the other 2 names .. and you're right about Jase .. I was fortunate to spend 70 odd minutes on the phone with him a while back and we talked all of the things you said .. and with some of the callers we have here that are coming through, we get them to watch all of his games. Jase probably does about 20 hours of prep for each game he calls .. last week he called VFL/AFL in the same day.. so his Friday/Saturday would have been all research and prep.. and if you use 5-percent of your research in the call, you're in for a great day.. where as some callers just show up.

Personally; I probably spend five to six hours a week; and then during the breaks; crunching the stats for each quarter to see what patterns unfolded.. we came up with a key one in the first half that Brisbane were +21 from 0-20 minutes and were +21 in time-on; statistically they score a lot of goals in junk time; which means if you're the opposition doing prep.. you need to be just as attacking from minutes 20 to 25 than from 0 to 5 .. otherwise, you get killed.

Stop making me learn new things on a Sunday!

 

[bedford]

I think just about everyone on here would say Bennett is the cream of the crop at the moment.

And i think most dislike the 7 callers like BT,JB and Darcy, there only saving grace is Hodge and Jude Bolton .
Fox is good apart from Underwood and hopefully soon we'll have a choice .

 

[ChrisThaLedg]

Where from in Victoria

I grew up in Woodend.. a stone's throw away from Hanging Rock.. how about you mate? I was fortunate to cut my teeth as a youngster building a call team to broadcast matches for the Riddell District Football Netball League .. we covered games in the Southern Footy region; Gippsland and Tatura as part of the Interleague program back in the day and those were the best weekends because we met so many from the other leagues and got to learn about footy in those regions, the structure .. the talent coming through.. it was always a special experience .. I spent weekends when I wasn't calling; going to other leagues and meeting call teams from other leagues and listening to their product .. it's tough up here in Queensland because they're isn't much local calls other than the streamed games from the State comp.. most leagues back home had community radio stations calling their games.. it was always a delight.

 

[caesar88]

ChrisThaLedg kudos to you for having the guts to come in here and speak to your truth and share your perspectives on commentary. It's cool you get to do a job that you enjoy and I'm sure there are people who appreciate your commentary style and plenty who are tolerant of or simply unfazed by some factually incorrect commentary. Not everyone needs to appreciate it, and you don't need to care what we think. That you've taken the time to come in here and cop some of our snarky comments suggests you really care about what you do and are open to criticism in order to get better.

Respect that.

 

[ChrisThaLedg]

ChrisThaLedg kudos to you for having the guts to come in here and speak to your truth and share your perspectives on commentary. It's cool you get to do a job that you enjoy and I'm sure there are people who appreciate your commentary style and plenty who are tolerant of or simply unfazed by some factually incorrect commentary. Not everyone needs to appreciate it, and you don't need to care what we think. That you've taken the time to come in here and cop some of our snarky comments suggests you really care about what you do and are open to criticism in order to get better.

Respect that.

Haha cheers mate .. I wouldn't call it 'having the guts'.. it's BF, no-one takes it overly seriously., it's footy.. it's just a hobby... at the end of the day, I've got AFL experience and I'm on the fringe of more opportunities; and I work with some of the best AFL callers in the country; that's the only feedback that matters at the end of the day.. it doesn't matter what I, the cat, the dog or anyone else thinks, it's what those powers think .. what that AFL experience does do however is provide an opportunity to work with people coming through wanting to do calling and I have the opportunity to work with, coach and develop basic strategies each week.. go over their games and help them get better.. and we've got more confident callers in the AFL space across all levels than ever before.. we don't have those avenues and pathway programs for callers.. so we'll see. I got to see a Sydney team that's got lots of talent coming through the Academy program and I'm disappointed that they don't come back up here for memory.. there is a lot to like

 

[WillHayward]

Our reserves are a total disaster.

Have we become that unprofessional and starved of talent we play the coaches kids?

 

[Mister B]

I grew up in Woodend.

A beautiful spot. Throughout my childhood visited one of my Dad's aunties that lived on Noonan Grove. Short walk up to the bakery for one of the award winning snot blocks...... good times.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Haha thanks mate .. we've got a few callers coming through up here and one of my mates who has been calling State league up here; he and I watched a few AFL practice games this year .. GC v Essendon and Geelong v Brisbane .. we spent eight quarters watching the action away from the ball to get an understanding of patterns and developing predictions .. we never did that at all, previously and I've been calling for THIRTEEN seasons .. and when we're co-calling; when one person has the call, the other person not calling observes patterns off the ball .. for example .. my offsider had the call; I made the comment on centre wing that Jaxon Prior came onto the ground for the Lions.. my off-sider continued the call.. Prior ended up being plus one at a contest at half forward to spear the ball into a team mate inside 50 .. so from a Sydney perspective; we're looking at how he wasn't picked up for 30 seconds in front of the coaches box and he sets up a goal scoring chance.. so with the art of calling; you're always learning.. and we learned yesterday that by seeing Sydney, there is a lot to like what the Academy is doing to develop new players and hopefully some of them get a look in to be selected for the main list in the future.

Really appreciate your insight.

One thing that I’ve never quite understood - why the commentators are seemingly unwilling to call it out when a team cops a run of umpiring howlers (see Friday night’s second quarter for a case in point).

When you’re a supporter of the club being reamed, an acknowledgment from the callers that “team X has copped a run of dubious decisions” would go some was to soothing the frustration!

Conversely, when the umpiring clangers are dutifully overloooked, it adds to the feeling of wanting to throw a brick at the screen!

 

[BarneyBent]

You obviously call it a shot on goal which is a soccer term , we in aussie rules kick at the goal we don't try to land it on the goals

Holy ****ing shit who gives a damn??

I wish I had the spare energy to care about this shit.

Stop policing how other people talk ffs

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

This is the kind of genius insight I’ve come to expect from you .


I popped up from the autopsy thread, where you “disagreed” with one of my posts without providing any context or saying anything for like the 300th time. I feel you abuse the “disagree” button more than anyone else , and frankly, I’ve come to resent you for it.

Haha yep does the same to me too, loves a disagree!!

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Thanks mate .. I really appreciate it .. we've got a new commentary dynamic up here where a lot of us have come from the State league competition; so we are right across the history of players in SEQ from their junior/academy/AFL/Local footy and it's very easy for us to highlight that in our calls, which is super important because without local footy and its success, we don't have a successful VFL and in the past, NEAFL competitions.

To create a balance; we contact visiting clubs during the week to get a bit more insight into some of the local talent; more importantly the VFL and VFL Dev talent. In the lead up to the game, I had discussions with three members from the Swans VFL team about players; and again so on the day.. we're of the mantra that we need to find a way to have a balanced call even when the scoreboard doesn't allow it because we know people back home are watching..

I don't know what the other guys do back in other states but we feel it's really important and additionally, it's great to make new friends from other clubs in the process. We're seeing guys play for the first time and if we've got some background info for the clubs on players to watch; especially with debutants, we get up for that .. my off-sider called one of the debutant's first goal.. and we were giving each other high fives and first pumping when it happened.. I was thrilled to see one of the boys starting on the ground.. and even making a specific point (Gander?) playing that loose man in defensive 40-50 range; at 192cm and that's a big role for the kid to play.. if we were just calling the game as it was and showing up on match day seeing Sydney for the first time; we're not knowing the debutants and we're not observant of what the opposition is doing ..

Seeing Gander and Rider play their debut games is super exciting, especially a 17-year-old lining up against the best team in the VFL .. and it's the same level as seeing the younger guys up here making their VFL debuts that were making their names in matches we called in the QAFL last year; you get yourself up for those players.. I'm lucky I've got a Saturday and Sunday game next week and seeing the great talent come through the State league up here will be special but not as special as finding some hidden gems at Coburg and Boxhill that are part of the VFL Dev program; and that's all thanks to the help of your clubs, it's special.

Thanks for the message; when I knew Sydney was coming up, it was a game to look forward to on the calendar .. I know a few guys that have umpired and been around the Sydney space and as an ex Vic; you always get excited for what hidden gems are coming through the teams not from the AFL heartlands

I thought you did OK. It's clearly a passion of yours. Good luck for the rest of the season.

 

[Jewelsbon]

I just don't get what's happened to the club as a whole. Currently both teams are roughly 12 spots below their finishing possies from last season. That's a huge drop!
I know we've had a lot of injuries, which have a flow on effect on both teams from the restructuring week in and week out, but both top 4 last year to both bottom 4 this year - it seems so weird.

 

[strauchanie59]

Thanks for the generous feedback.. considering I've never seen your team play before and I spent much of the game trying to find positives for your team statistically, and that was hard (the Pony comment was very stupid and I shook my head after I said that) .. maybe if you guys come up to Queensland again, I'll put the directive to just talk up how good the home team is based on what was served up yesterday..

But here is the challenge; when a visiting team that callers haven't seen before is being so comprehensively beaten in all areas of the ground with the exception of one player.. Arnold .. it's very hard to learn new players when they're often second to the ball and turning it over so quickly when they do get it .. people watching at home have the benefit of two cameras .. one that's wide with a closer angle.. and another that's closer..

The name isn't Indhi; and that's very obvious.

On a positive note.. your main ruckman is a genuine talent and I'm very optimistic that he'll make some big strides in the 1s when the door does open.. Owen has potential and improved as the game went on .. Edwards is rock solid and backed up his outstanding game against Sandy with another remarkable effort down back, especially against Fullarton who is likely to break into the 1s in the coming weeks.

Appreciate the feedback though.. NSW has a lack of callers .. do yourself a favour and put your hand up.. you could absolutely most definitely do a better job than I; and I'd love to hear some new voices..

My calling style is not everyone's cup of coffee.. but it has got me AFL experience.. and I spend time coaching new callers across various sports in the region which has seen a rise in new, quality callers filling necessary holes in SEQ.

Would love to get in touch about this. Did a bit of commentary for the NEAFL back in 2018 and then not hearing back from them for 2019, so would love to get back into it in NSW.

 

[ChrisThaLedg]

Really appreciate your insight.

One thing that I’ve never quite understood - why the commentators are seemingly unwilling to call it out when a team cops a run of umpiring howlers (see Friday night’s second quarter for a case in point).

When you’re a supporter of the club being reamed, an acknowledgment from the callers that “team X has copped a run of dubious decisions” would go some was to soothing the frustration!

Conversely, when the umpiring clangers are dutifully overloooked, it adds to the feeling of wanting to throw a brick at the screen!

Great question mate .. everyone is different and I'm most definitely the wrong person to ask that question to. I've umpired over 450 games across various levels and through Victoria and Queensland .. I'm very one-eyed when it comes to umpires and I'll wear any knocks that come with that; and while I speak to clubs before games .. I do spend time with the field umpires and their coaches; get a feel for their take on conditions, get some clarity on interpretations etc..

Personally.. I have an understanding on why decisions are paid; quite often we as a viewer or even in the grand stand see a different game to what the umpire sees .. there have been some occasions where a decision is paid and I have no idea why; but then I've had those moments where I've paid decisions that were just silly and absolutely wrong; and I've had spent time getting frustrated by that one decision that I make a lot more because I lose focus .. so in a sense, if you make a mistake, own it and focus on getting the next one right .. I take that approach with some of the young women we have learning to be callers.. the game moves so fast with so many moving pieces as a caller and an umpire that if you make a mistake, you'll have a chance to atone for that a few seconds later ..

I've seen enough footy from top to bottom and my personal take is; players make more mistakes than umpires do.. and people will disagree with me on this forum and they've disagreed with me elsewhere and will continue to disagree with me.. and that's fine, it's my opinion and experience and that alone is not life or death because it's just a game of football to me and my opinion is not going to cause an impact anywhere.. if an umpire makes the wrong decision 10 metres out from goal and a player has a shot to win the game.. the question I ask is .. 'why did the opposition midfield allow the ball to be cleared? why didn't the defenders work together to ensure that they could clear or mark the ball' .. I ask those questions.. but this is a different kettle of fish.

I'm personally not a fan of commentators making negative comments about umpires because -
A - 99% of them .. if not, 100% at the top level haven't umpired and you can know the rule book inside out but the game scenario is a different ball game altogether .. I was an ordinary umpire who knew all the rules and found it so hard to officiate.
B - the more that's being said about umpires that's negative; it keeps up that negative dialogue and our national game at grass-roots level is struggling for numbers; so if our major platform such as match day calls looks at the negatives (they'll very rarely say anything about the positives).. who is going to think about giving it a go? And that's a genuine question..

I'm not an expert on umpiring; absolutely not .. but when a caller critisizes an umpire's decision; very often they're wrong.. and they're at the ground and I'm watching it on TV.

At VFL level too.. I've spoken with the coaches about the performances of umpires; and even hear some of the feedback that they're giving during the game in real time; supporters do not give the top umpires the worst feedback .. the coaches do and they are absolutely ruthless..

I know this comment is broad, and covers a bit .. so in short; I'm not sure how other callers approach this matter; but for me personally, I'd rather use the forum to explain why a decision is paid; and keep a neutral spin on things. Players during our calls make a lot of mistakes and I'd like to think we try and keep a neutral spin on it and try and look for positives.. VFL is the step below AFL and it's a level that reaches a lot of our footballing community; and if we can find ways to make it welcoming for people to umpire and play (even promoting the success of the Academy programs as if to say that there is opportunities to grow in the game if you're at a good standard).. then we win.

The above won't be a popular opinion and I accept that.. but that's my take. When I took up umpiring and then calling (most in the same day); I'm an Essendon supporter but I threw my passion for a club out the window and have for many years embraced all elements in the game; instead of being passionate about a team, I'm passionate about players.

 

[SeanM]

I just don't get what's happened to the club as a whole. Currently both teams are roughly 12 spots below their finishing possies from last season. That's a huge drop!
I know we've had a lot of injuries, which have a flow on effect on both teams from the restructuring week in and week out, but both top 4 last year to both bottom 4 this year - it seems so weird.

I think reserves had a stronger lineup last year. I just had a look at the semi final lineup. There is O'Connor, Cunningham, Campbell, Lewis Taylor, Bell, Ronke, McLean, Amartey, Wicks, Sheldrick and Roberts. (in addition to Gould, Rankin, Warner, Hall-Kahan and McAndrew)

This year's lineup seems to be about 6 1st year players, 3 2nd year players and 2-3 older players. And none of the 1st year players have really excelled in VFL in the same way that Roberts and Sheldrick did. I think our reserves game style also relies on a dominant key forward like Amartey or McLean.

 

[robbieando]

The issues with the reserves is purely down to the experience available and injuries.

Last year we had players like Sinclair, Bell, Ronke and Taylor available to provide senior support for most of the season and Cunningham later in the season to provide leadership to the 1st and 2nd year players, this year that support is not there save for Stephens, Melican, Gould and Wicks who have been into and out of the reserves side in any case.

The effect our injuries have had this year across the entire list has meant we are playing more top up players than we did at any point last year, in most case twice as many. Last year towards the end of the season we played with at most 4 or 5 top up players so most of the reserves team each week was made up of AFL listed players with the top up players being complementary pieces to the side. This year the number top up players has blown out to 9 to 11 depending on the needs of the senior side each week and the top up players are being relied upon to fill important roles that they weren't planned to be used in (also doesn't help that the two senior tops ups that we have in Collis and Shipley are currently missing due to injury as well).

The lack of a key forward at all for most of the season has been a big issue for the reserves side. Its not surprising that we have our best game when we get our hands on a forward and the next week we revert back to type when he is called up to the seniors and a 17 year old top up is expected to replace his output.

 

[bedford]

Holy ******* s**t who gives a damn??

I wish I had the spare energy to care about this s**t.

Stop policing how other people talk ffs

How is that policing it here , it's about the commentary bent one and it was a pleasant exchange

 

[bedford]

Haha yep does the same to me too, loves a disagree!!

as i get

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Great question mate .. everyone is different and I'm most definitely the wrong person to ask that question to. I've umpired over 450 games across various levels and through Victoria and Queensland .. I'm very one-eyed when it comes to umpires and I'll wear any knocks that come with that; and while I speak to clubs before games .. I do spend time with the field umpires and their coaches; get a feel for their take on conditions, get some clarity on interpretations etc..

Personally.. I have an understanding on why decisions are paid; quite often we as a viewer or even in the grand stand see a different game to what the umpire sees .. there have been some occasions where a decision is paid and I have no idea why; but then I've had those moments where I've paid decisions that were just silly and absolutely wrong; and I've had spent time getting frustrated by that one decision that I make a lot more because I lose focus .. so in a sense, if you make a mistake, own it and focus on getting the next one right .. I take that approach with some of the young women we have learning to be callers.. the game moves so fast with so many moving pieces as a caller and an umpire that if you make a mistake, you'll have a chance to atone for that a few seconds later ..

I've seen enough footy from top to bottom and my personal take is; players make more mistakes than umpires do.. and people will disagree with me on this forum and they've disagreed with me elsewhere and will continue to disagree with me.. and that's fine, it's my opinion and experience and that alone is not life or death because it's just a game of football to me and my opinion is not going to cause an impact anywhere.. if an umpire makes the wrong decision 10 metres out from goal and a player has a shot to win the game.. the question I ask is .. 'why did the opposition midfield allow the ball to be cleared? why didn't the defenders work together to ensure that they could clear or mark the ball' .. I ask those questions.. but this is a different kettle of fish.

I'm personally not a fan of commentators making negative comments about umpires because -
A - 99% of them .. if not, 100% at the top level haven't umpired and you can know the rule book inside out but the game scenario is a different ball game altogether .. I was an ordinary umpire who knew all the rules and found it so hard to officiate.
B - the more that's being said about umpires that's negative; it keeps up that negative dialogue and our national game at grass-roots level is struggling for numbers; so if our major platform such as match day calls looks at the negatives (they'll very rarely say anything about the positives).. who is going to think about giving it a go? And that's a genuine question..

I'm not an expert on umpiring; absolutely not .. but when a caller critisizes an umpire's decision; very often they're wrong.. and they're at the ground and I'm watching it on TV.

At VFL level too.. I've spoken with the coaches about the performances of umpires; and even hear some of the feedback that they're giving during the game in real time; supporters do not give the top umpires the worst feedback .. the coaches do and they are absolutely ruthless..

I know this comment is broad, and covers a bit .. so in short; I'm not sure how other callers approach this matter; but for me personally, I'd rather use the forum to explain why a decision is paid; and keep a neutral spin on things. Players during our calls make a lot of mistakes and I'd like to think we try and keep a neutral spin on it and try and look for positives.. VFL is the step below AFL and it's a level that reaches a lot of our footballing community; and if we can find ways to make it welcoming for people to umpire and play (even promoting the success of the Academy programs as if to say that there is opportunities to grow in the game if you're at a good standard).. then we win.

The above won't be a popular opinion and I accept that.. but that's my take. When I took up umpiring and then calling (most in the same day); I'm an Essendon supporter but I threw my passion for a club out the window and have for many years embraced all elements in the game; instead of being passionate about a team, I'm passionate about players.

Thanks very much for the very well stated, reasoned reply. Greatly appreciated!

It’s a hot topic here because the Swans supporters (rightly or wrongly - but personally I think rightly!) feel we’ve been on the wrong end of more than our fair share of umpiring errors this year. And certain commentators (most notably BT) are certainly on the nose due a perceived Vic (read: Collingwood) bias.

Anyway, once again, greatly appreciate your reply.

And I’m so sorry about the Essendon supporter bit. Must be a tough burden to bear .

 

[bedford]

Thanks very much for the very well stated, reasoned reply. Greatly appreciated!

It’s a hot topic here because the Swans supporters (rightly or wrongly - but personally I think rightly!) feels we’ve been on the wrong end of more than our fair share of umpiring errors this year. And certain commentators (most notably BT) are certainly on the nose due a perceived Vic (read: Collingwood) bias.

Anyway, once again, greatly appreciate your reply.

And I’m so sorry about the Essendon supporter bit. Must be a tough burden to bear .

Good stuff

 

[ChrisThaLedg]

Thanks very much for the very well stated, reasoned reply. Greatly appreciated!

It’s a hot topic here because the Swans supporters (rightly or wrongly - but personally I think rightly!) feel we’ve been on the wrong end of more than our fair share of umpiring errors this year. And certain commentators (most notably BT) are certainly on the nose due a perceived Vic (read: Collingwood) bias.

Anyway, once again, greatly appreciate your reply.

And I’m so sorry about the Essendon supporter bit. Must be a tough burden to bear .

Haha the pleasure is mine .. I can't speak for other umpires, but from my experience; I look for the free kick first - pay that; and then notice the team.. so that takes out the favourtism.. and up here; we have one game per week and probably six umpires, maybe seven that fight for 3 spots; so if there is any hint of favourtism towards another team and incorrect decisions are paid because of it; straight back to the QAFL because there is three or four others fighting for that one spot .. so it's tight; and to be fair, Sydney is probably the same because their is only one game most weeks; I'm not sure on the Victorian system - in terms of; where do umpires go when they don't get picked.. maybe the VAFA .. but that's VFL.. and we do often see AFL umpires most weeks, running in the VFL.. in fact, at least one every week - so they are getting dropped.

I've heard footy coaches go off at their players; they have nothing on the umpire coaches..

The BT one is interesting.. it just goes back to what I mentioned previously - most callers haven't umpired before; additionally, I think that can be said for most callers never having coached before - I'd love a caller to share that experience and feed that into their call; it adds more weight into it - many callers are ex-players; but they know the game as a player and a player that has received instructions from a coach.

Haha thanks mate .. the 96 and 99 prelims still hurt .. childhood trauma .. I still have my ticket to the 04 Elimination Final win; that would be worth a mint.. as long as we win on Anzac Day; beat Carlton, Richmond and Sydney .. anything else is a bonus .. I'm petrified when we play you guys.

 

[bedford]

Haha the pleasure is mine .. I can't speak for other umpires, but from my experience; I look for the free kick first - pay that; and then notice the team.. so that takes out the favourtism.. and up here; we have one game per week and probably six umpires, maybe seven that fight for 3 spots; so if there is any hint of favourtism towards another team and incorrect decisions are paid because of it; straight back to the QAFL because there is three or four others fighting for that one spot .. so it's tight; and to be fair, Sydney is probably the same because their is only one game most weeks; I'm not sure on the Victorian system - in terms of; where do umpires go when they don't get picked.. maybe the VAFA .. but that's VFL.. and we do often see AFL umpires most weeks, running in the VFL.. in fact, at least one every week - so they are getting dropped.

I've heard footy coaches go off at their players; they have nothing on the umpire coaches..

The BT one is interesting.. it just goes back to what I mentioned previously - most callers haven't umpired before; additionally, I think that can be said for most callers never having coached before - I'd love a caller to share that experience and feed that into their call; it adds more weight into it - many callers are ex-players; but they know the game as a player and a player that has received instructions from a coach.

Haha thanks mate .. the 96 and 99 prelims still hurt .. childhood trauma .. I still have my ticket to the 04 Elimination Final win; that would be worth a mint.. as long as we win on Anzac Day; beat Carlton, Richmond and Sydney .. anything else is a bonus .. I'm petrified when we play you guys.

N