List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management Thread II - Goldy&Bucket➡️✅/'24 EoFR & #44➡️Stephens&#25✅/#21&#25➡️Fisher&#17✅/'24 EoFR➡️#18✅

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Hello Shinboners!

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

 
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shinboner magic said:
Shiel does that and he can actually football.
What standards is Turner setting his his moonball like skills
Click to expand...
On the surface, I agree. However, there MUST be some value he’s bringing for Clarko to bring Sheil across, and still choose to re-recruit Turner. I’ll just trust that clarko sees something behind the scenes that we don’t on game day.
 

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shimaburnsgrieg said:
If we offer anything resembling another decent first rounder on top of pick 2 then we have sold ourselves severely short here.
Click to expand...

Define "decent first rounder". .

In reality, that pick "14" is unlikely to be even a 1st rounder in an uncompromised draft! I have it as between 18 & 21 (probably 19).

SBG, the fact you even used the word "decent" means you think that a lower 1st round pick might be fine for this trade.

I probably agree with you if it remained pick 14 in reality, then it's likely too high. Bottom line: It won't... & it will be more than 2 or 3 spots it drops unfortunately!
 
DaveyBoy123 said:
Define "decent first rounder". .

In reality, that pick "14" is unlikely to be even a 1st rounder in an uncompromised draft! I have it as between 18 & 21 (probably 19).

SBG, the fact you even used the word "decent" means you think that a lower 1st round pick might be fine for this trade.

I probably agree with you if it remained pick 14 in reality, then it's likely too high. Bottom line: It won't... & it will be more than 2 or 3 spots it drops unfortunately!
Click to expand...

This is the zone players like Hardeman and Roberts will be around, attacking rebound defenders who are good kicks. I think Hardeman also played midfield. If we are going to release Sheezel forward, we need guys who can hit targets coming out of the defensive 50.

I think Berger and Goat are good prospects, but if we are letting go of Boner and have seen the back of Ziebell, Hall, etc then we need more options there. Fisher will be a good inclusion.

I think people overvalue picks too much, I'd definitely trade good picks for good players, but we undervalue quality picks which can allow you to accumulate good quality prospects.

I think people are being blinded by our large number of picks, maybe even the club, I think you should value each pick like it is your only pick, is trading it or using it the best value you can get from that pick? Some of the ludicrous trades I have seen us mentioned in is pretty much flushing all our picks down the toilet for 2 or 3 players. We didn't get assistance because we were 2 or 3 players off from completing our list. It has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.

We need to maximise the improvement to our list.
 
 
Harris 10 said:
That’s my understanding.

Also I believe other clubs eg:Hawks can put in offers after the original one is matched.
Click to expand...

I may be wrong but as I understand the process it isn't clubs that lodge offers to the AFL, the clubs pitch offers to the player/agent and once a player agrees to the terms and signs the provisional agreement, it is then lodged with the AFL and that is the only contract we must match the limited terms (we don't have to match triggers, bonuses, etc). So I think it is only the one contract the player/agent can lodge with the AFL and then it is business time, match or pass and if there is a match then the options are stay/trade/draft/sit out of football for 2 years.

For restricted free agents, the AFL will inform the club within 24 hours of the provisional compensation, and the club has up to 72 hours from when the contract was lodged to match it or pass.
 
I like our draft picks. Apart from next year's pps I think we should keep them. We have a good mix of top end quality and some teens picks for needs based selections.
While trading for 4, 6 or 7 seems great on paper. We have like 10 players on our list of VFL quality who need replacing. Those teen picks are the way we do that. Dropping 2 of those picks for another early pick when we already have 2 and 3 seems counterproductive.

I don't mind the players we have been linked to so far. Except Darling. It would be just our luck we pick him up and a new COVID strain comes along.
 

ROOS, SAINTS TO REAP FREE AGENCY REWARDS​

North Melbourne and St Kilda are expected to cash in on free agency compensation this year as the league compares future deals for Ben McKay and Jade Gresham to 2023 AFL salaries.

The league has told clubs that it has no discretion to award a club like the Roos greater free agency compensation because of their dire win-loss record, instead going on a strict formula.

But as Essendon prepares to lodge offers for Ben McKay and St Kilda’s mid-forward Gresham, market conditions will help both clubs with free agency compensation.

It comes after clubs were shocked that deals for James Jordon and, in particular, Matt Flynn secured end-of-second-round compensation on Friday.

Some clubs believed Jordon’s age of 22 helped trigger a better compensation pick, there was greater surprise that 26-year-old Flynn also earned a decent selection.

The league’s general manager of clubs David Grossman has confirmed the league will compare deals to salaries from round 1, 2023 - pre-pay rise - to assess whether players fall into the top five per cent of paid players over 25 years of age.

The league uses this year’s salaries as a round 1 cut-off to set free agency compensation even though next year’s salaries will be 15 per cent higher under a newly-brokered pay deal.

So the Roos will receive the No.3 overall pick as free agency compensation if McKay is offered a deal of just under $800,000 in guaranteed money instead of up to the $920,000 a year needed for free agents next October.


Under free agency rules a deal needs only be two years in length to trigger compensation.

So Essendon could offer Gresham a short-term deal of two or three years on just over $800,000 a season to secure first-round compensation for St Kilda.

Grossman said the rise of first-round picks being offered significant sums to sign their second contract had also seen more money paid to players in their third to fifth seasons.

It means there are less players on $800,000-plus in the industry, which helps maximise free agency compensation when offers are lodged exceeding that figure.

“What we have seen in the last half dozen years is that the value of third, fourth and fifth year player contracts has increased a lot,” Grossman said.

“That sucks money out of the total player payments away from older players. So the value of salary that sits within the 25-and-plus-year cohort is lower on a relative basis. Which means the nominal value of a contract relative to that cohort is different over time.”

The league is assessing whether to tweak the free agency formula based on the number of years in a free agency contract to reflect the reality that a six-year deal is more valuable than a two-year deal.

 

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giantroo said:

ROOS, SAINTS TO REAP FREE AGENCY REWARDS​

North Melbourne and St Kilda are expected to cash in on free agency compensation this year as the league compares future deals for Ben McKay and Jade Gresham to 2023 AFL salaries.

The league has told clubs that it has no discretion to award a club like the Roos greater free agency compensation because of their dire win-loss record, instead going on a strict formula.

But as Essendon prepares to lodge offers for Ben McKay and St Kilda’s mid-forward Gresham, market conditions will help both clubs with free agency compensation.

It comes after clubs were shocked that deals for James Jordon and, in particular, Matt Flynn secured end-of-second-round compensation on Friday.

Some clubs believed Jordon’s age of 22 helped trigger a better compensation pick, there was greater surprise that 26-year-old Flynn also earned a decent selection.

The league’s general manager of clubs David Grossman has confirmed the league will compare deals to salaries from round 1, 2023 - pre-pay rise - to assess whether players fall into the top five per cent of paid players over 25 years of age.

The league uses this year’s salaries as a round 1 cut-off to set free agency compensation even though next year’s salaries will be 15 per cent higher under a newly-brokered pay deal.

So the Roos will receive the No.3 overall pick as free agency compensation if McKay is offered a deal of just under $800,000 in guaranteed money instead of up to the $920,000 a year needed for free agents next October.


Under free agency rules a deal needs only be two years in length to trigger compensation.

So Essendon could offer Gresham a short-term deal of two or three years on just over $800,000 a season to secure first-round compensation for St Kilda.

Grossman said the rise of first-round picks being offered significant sums to sign their second contract had also seen more money paid to players in their third to fifth seasons.

It means there are less players on $800,000-plus in the industry, which helps maximise free agency compensation when offers are lodged exceeding that figure.

“What we have seen in the last half dozen years is that the value of third, fourth and fifth year player contracts has increased a lot,” Grossman said.

“That sucks money out of the total player payments away from older players. So the value of salary that sits within the 25-and-plus-year cohort is lower on a relative basis. Which means the nominal value of a contract relative to that cohort is different over time.”

The league is assessing whether to tweak the free agency formula based on the number of years in a free agency contract to reflect the reality that a six-year deal is more valuable than a two-year deal.

Click to expand...
I'm hoping for pick 3. But I would not bet my house on it.
 
giantroo said:

ROOS, SAINTS TO REAP FREE AGENCY REWARDS​

North Melbourne and St Kilda are expected to cash in on free agency compensation this year as the league compares future deals for Ben McKay and Jade Gresham to 2023 AFL salaries.

The league has told clubs that it has no discretion to award a club like the Roos greater free agency compensation because of their dire win-loss record, instead going on a strict formula.

But as Essendon prepares to lodge offers for Ben McKay and St Kilda’s mid-forward Gresham, market conditions will help both clubs with free agency compensation.

It comes after clubs were shocked that deals for James Jordon and, in particular, Matt Flynn secured end-of-second-round compensation on Friday.

Some clubs believed Jordon’s age of 22 helped trigger a better compensation pick, there was greater surprise that 26-year-old Flynn also earned a decent selection.

The league’s general manager of clubs David Grossman has confirmed the league will compare deals to salaries from round 1, 2023 - pre-pay rise - to assess whether players fall into the top five per cent of paid players over 25 years of age.

The league uses this year’s salaries as a round 1 cut-off to set free agency compensation even though next year’s salaries will be 15 per cent higher under a newly-brokered pay deal.

So the Roos will receive the No.3 overall pick as free agency compensation if McKay is offered a deal of just under $800,000 in guaranteed money instead of up to the $920,000 a year needed for free agents next October.


Under free agency rules a deal needs only be two years in length to trigger compensation.

So Essendon could offer Gresham a short-term deal of two or three years on just over $800,000 a season to secure first-round compensation for St Kilda.

Grossman said the rise of first-round picks being offered significant sums to sign their second contract had also seen more money paid to players in their third to fifth seasons.

It means there are less players on $800,000-plus in the industry, which helps maximise free agency compensation when offers are lodged exceeding that figure.

“What we have seen in the last half dozen years is that the value of third, fourth and fifth year player contracts has increased a lot,” Grossman said.

“That sucks money out of the total player payments away from older players. So the value of salary that sits within the 25-and-plus-year cohort is lower on a relative basis. Which means the nominal value of a contract relative to that cohort is different over time.”

The league is assessing whether to tweak the free agency formula based on the number of years in a free agency contract to reflect the reality that a six-year deal is more valuable than a two-year deal.

Click to expand...

The league is assessing whether to tweak the free agency formula based on the number of years in a free agency contract to reflect the reality that a six-year deal is more valuable than a two-year deal.

What? Their magic sauce doesn't already allow for that?
 
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In 2020 paperwork was lodged by St Kilda for Brad Crouch on a Sunday.

So unless rules have changed, the saga could have been over.
 
www.foxsports.com.au

Every clubs’ trade state of play: Who could leave and who they could target as window opens

Every clubs’ state of play: Who could leave and who they could target as trade period begins
www.foxsports.com.au www.foxsports.com.au

Meanwhile Essendon has won the race for key defender Ben McKay’s services. They won’t know until they lodge their contract offer what compensation it entitles North Melbourne to, but band one would significantly decrease the likelihood the Kangaroos would opt not to match. Another Kangaroo will be heading their way with Todd Goldstein picking the Bombers over the Magpies as his next home, allowing him to partner with Sam Draper.


NORTH MELBOURNE

Players that could leave

If the paperwork lands at Arden Street and it’s clear they’ll be getting top-level compensation for Ben McKay’s free agency exit, Alastair Clarkson should probably offer to drive him over to Essendon. The Kangaroos say they are ready to match any offer for the restricted free agent that doesn’t secure them the No.3 pick in the draft. Hawthorn and Sydney would happily make a move for the key defender if his preferred move to the Bombers falls through, but it would be staggering for that to happen from here. Despite the club proclaiming him a ‘Kangaroo for life’ when he signed his last contract extension, former All-Australian ruckman Todd Goldstein will finish his career at Essendon. Tarryn Thomas, who ended the season on a high note after his myriad of off-field controversies, will see out his contract until the end of 2024 amid interest from the Bombers and Sydney.

Players that could arrive

The Roos are tipped to land out-of-favour Blue Zac Fisher on a four-year deal, with a trigger for a fifth, on $450,000 a season according to Jon Ralph. He is contracted until the end of 2025, having extended midway through last year, and would need to be traded but given he played just 12 AFL games this year Carlton wouldn’t be able to drive a particularly hard bargain. Four clubs including the Kangaroos flagged interest in Gold Coast forward Mabior Chol, who had an excellent campaign leading the side to a VFL flag, but he picked Hawthorn. Former No.5 pick Dylan Stephens has requested a trade from Sydney to Arden Street, with a deal of up to four years on the table. Let’s not forget the possibility of the Kangaroos trading up for Pick 1 to nab Harley Reid - which they wouldn’t have had to do if they had simply lost to Gold Coast in Round 24. The Roos are the most likely team to make the move simply because it’d mean the Eagles would land Pick 2, and thus have access to top WA prospect Daniel Curtin; something which would not be certain if they traded down to Gold Coast’s No.4, Melbourne’s No.5 or GWS’ No.6. (All of those pick numbers are correct before the looming McKay compo pick, which throws another spanner in the works.) As one club recruiter told Foxfooty.com.au earlier this year about the prospect of West Coast trading Pick 1, “it’d be North or nothing”.

Who’s already gone


Jack Ziebell (retired), Aaron Hall (retired), Daniel Howe (retired) Ben Cunnington (retired), Lachie Young (delisted), Flynn Perez (delisted), Phoenix Spicer (delisted), Jacob Edwards (delisted)

Draft picks

2, 14, 19, 40, 52, 60
 
Imagine being Goldy, and this new club who says they're really keen for you, can't even be bothered submitting the paperwork for a zero cost move because "other stuff is on their mind"
Makeshift Park said:
Yes, I'm saying if * lodge the paperwork on Friday, we would have until Sunday.
Click to expand...
Would actually be same time Monday, They have to give us the full 72 hours.
 
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