Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[Buzz Hawk]

If they're that desperate I'd get them to overpay, 30 + Gunston for Ryan + 54.

I like Sticks, he could be a good CHF, but there is significant bust potential there.

Agreed. If he doesn’t have the body he needs to be a genuine KPF at 24, chances are slim of ever having it.

 

[DannyJ]

If we aren't prepared to pay Ryan the 3 year deal, we should trade him.

This is a life changing deal for him.

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[CaptainWorpedo]

People are victims of their own expectations on this board, whether that's the rate at which deals get done, or the value we give or get in them. Bigger picture the only reasonable thing to be disappointed about is that we said we'd be aggressive, but that much of the aggression didn't pay off. Stuff like getting angry at Brockman for the West Coast deal, meh - worked out fine given they had us over a barrel and still effectively gave us most of the points required for McCabe. Some of us need to take a step back occasionally.

Really?

Or are the Hawks victims of cards not falling there way again?

Demons offered crows a second round pick for McAdam. Brocky will be twice the player he is and at his young age now still has achieved more….

 

[TylerDurden]

Sorry how do they get him?

Unsure of the pick. But if they think he's weather a 3 year deal on good coin, they need to cough up.

 

[Braidz]

44+63 is equivalent points to 38 which is about Brockman’s worth. Nice tidy amount to put towards Dear and McCabe.

But walking him to the psd and getting nothing would’ve been the morale victory

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Really?

Or are the Hawks victims of cards not falling there way again?

Demons offered crows a second round pick for McAdam. Brocky will be twice the player he is and at his young age now still has achieved more….

Trading on potential is a bad idea though - look at us and the ridiculous price we paid for Jono O’Rourke because he happened to be a number 2 draft pick despite not remotely delivering on that at GWS. West Coast are clearly smarter than that. They also held all of the cards on the deal - a net result of pick 38 is pretty damn good given the full circumstances.

 

[Billyc]

If we aren't prepared to pay Ryan the 3 year deal, we should trade him.

This is a life changing deal for him.

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We’re not a charity. We offered him the chance to play league footy. If Brisbane and Ryan want a contract broken, pay up. Our forward stocks don’t warrant us being charitable to a grand final side.

 

[Kuuz]

Man kinda gutted if Smith deal is now dead in the water.

With that and Reid looking unlikely, and without any unexpected trades, that's a pretty disappointing transfer window.

We lose a few useful young players in Brocky, Kozi (and maybe Ryan) and don't really address many pain points.

I hope we can turn it around next week and pull something out of the fire, because it will be disappointing otherwise. I just don't accept that holding our pick for finishing 3rd last is a win. It's a consequence of a rebuild, but was hoping we could add to it with some clever trades.

Really hope the ITKs have been sold a false story on some of these failed trades.

 

[KermitJagger]

Personally I would call that good! Generally you win some and you lose some. The Hawks lose more than they win, an this we need to change!

Any amount we would have gotten for Brockman would end up the same, unless we managed a miracle and secured a first round pick. Most picks from the 2nd round onwards would hold little value in trade, and would likely just become part of matching a bid on McCabe. A pick in the 20s might have felt better but practically it wouldn't mean much for our draft hand.

 

[peetoo]

not much u can do if Brisbane is seriously offering an MSD player (picked basically last in that draft too mind you) with 6 month's experience a three-year deal. you would be insane as Ryan not to take that. basically guarantees you will have a shot at a real AFL career

Is it a reflection on how poorly brisbane rate their current talls?

Thinking laterally is Sicily arguably in the top 3 CHB but also potentially top 10 CHF too? Darcy Moore too.

And Stephen May - they have lever. Put your money where your mouth is and train as a kpf

 

[Ned Ryerson]

We’re not a charity. We offered him the chance to play league footy. If Brisbane and Ryan want a contract broken, pay up. Our forward stocks don’t warrant us being charitable to a grand final side.

This. I’m all for being fair to a kid trying to get home to his family - but Ryan was given a chance by us and we desperately need forwards as opposed to Brisbane who need contingencies. If they want him badly then pay up. Pick 30 and Gunston.

 

[cryptor]

I still reckon we are an outside chance of getting Pick 1.

The ball is in Norf's court. They either cough up 2&3 meaning we get Duursma or Eagles accept our offer and we get Reid.

Either way a win for us.

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I agree. 2 + 3 is better than our 4 + F1. But if who they want as a result is Curtin then I'm certain they'd still be able to get him at pick 4, it's just not a guarantee which is worth less than the certainty holding pick 2 gives.

I reckon they hold out to see if North blink. Possibly right up until draft night and then do the best deal available to them - which could be ours.

Alternatively they might just take Reid with pick 1 and then begin offering their F1 to clubs with a live pick while Curtin is still on the board.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

There is a lot we can do. We say no. He's contracted for next year.

that's true lol forgot he signed that 1-year deal. anyway my point was more how odd it is that they've offered him a 3-year deal given where he was picked up and how much he's played to date.

 

[DannyJ]

We’re not a charity. We offered him the chance to play league footy. If Brisbane and Ryan want a contract broken, pay up. Our forward stocks don’t warrant us being charitable to a grand final side.

I'm all for getting a decent pick in return. However, I think it'd be cruel to keep him on a 1 year deal in the VFL next year

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[Braidz]

that's true lol forgot he signed that 1-year deal. anyway my point was more how odd it is that they've offered him a 3-year deal given where he was picked up and how much he's played to date.

Have they though? Seems like it was just one throwaway tweet that started this. Have seen nothing else

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Bris are all over Ryan like a cheap suit.
3 year deal.

I'd say he's gone.

Gee if this was to occur, it would mean he has played for 7 or 8 different sides in 2-3 years

 

[LunchboxLegend]

If we aren't prepared to pay Ryan the 3 year deal, we should trade him.

This is a life changing deal for him.

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And here I was thinking we should do what’s best for HFC….

 

[Billyc]

I'm all for getting a decent pick in return. However, I think it'd be cruel to keep him on a 1 year deal in the VFL next year

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Just as we had no bargaining power with Brockman and had no choice but to take what we could, we have all the bargaining power with Ryan. He’s contracted, required and we have no salary cap issues. If he and Brisbane want a trade, it needs to be a very favourable deal for Hawthorn.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Have they though? Seems like it was just one throwaway tweet that started this. Have seen nothing else

idk bro i'll let u know when Fages replies to me

 

[LunchboxLegend]

Really?

Or are the Hawks victims of cards not falling there way again?

Demons offered crows a second round pick for McAdam. Brocky will be twice the player he is and at his young age now still has achieved more….

Could go either way.
At his best, Brocky looked super classy.
At other times, he didnt go when it was his turn…

 

[Braidz]

idk bro i'll let u know when Fages replies to me

Ok. Send me the screen shot of the chat

 

[Judd2Sewell]

But walking him to the psd and getting nothing would’ve been the morale victory

Don't you know he should have just bluffed a little. WCE would certainly have fallen for that and given up more.

 

[Hawk88]

Brockman could have helped the Hawks a little once Freo came on the scene. But no he could not bluff a little….

Short memory Brocky no one wanted you at the end of the 2022 year and you shafted us!

This is one of the worst takes honestly

Put yourself in Brockmans shoes for a second, why would you make your new club pay more for you which also harms your chances of having a better list at WC ?

Players don't owe their clubs anything, its a bloody business!

 

[DannyJ]

Just as we had no bargaining power with Brockman and had no choice but to take what we could, we have all the bargaining power with Ryan. He’s contracted, required and we have no salary cap issues. If he and Brisbane want a trade, it needs to be a very favourable deal for Hawthorn.

We do have the bargaining power here. However, where do we rate Ryan as a player? If we rate him, we should be keeping him.

If we don't, we should let him have this opportunity. A 1 year deal on change v 3 years is a big gap for Ryan.



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[Alite]

Are we 100% no chance for Harley?

I know we were knocked back for 4 and F1 (+/-).

Was this only because they think they’ll get 2 and 3 from NM (and who knows, maybe they will)?

But if they don’t. If they can’t get NM to budge…

Then our offer is the only genuine (likely) 2 x top 5 pick offer.
It’s the best offer on the table.

What would it take?

I know this deal was knocked back but, even though Brockman has all but been traded, Pick 4(5) +F1 + Brockman is still, in a way, possible. We just give WC back what they gave up for Brockman: picks 44 and 63.

Or we could sweeten the deal a little (hopefully not too much) after all other Hawks trades are done.

The fat lady may be warming up her vocal cords but she ain’t singing yet.