Ultimate Glory 2023 Trade speculation and Shinbeggars discussion

[jumpingjai]

With Brockman doesn't the fact that Freo made a 4 year offer give some idea of what his trade value is. ( with a discount for a West Coast's capacity to walk him through to the draft.)

 

[FB19]

I wondered why the dogs gave up so much in that lopsided deal for suns pick including an f1 with nothing meaningful back. Maybe it’s because they already knew they were getting a replacement better future first in to replace theirs going out.

 

[FB19]

• Pick 4 + F1 --> (WB) Pick 5 + Smith
• Brockman --> (WCE) 2024 Third Round Selection
• 2024 Third Round Selection [via WCE] + 2024 Third Round Selection [via Haw] --> (GC) Mabior Chol + 2024 Third Round Selection [via GC]
• Koschitzke + Pick 32 --> (Richmond) Pick 28 + Pick 49
• 2024 Second Round Selection --> (St. Kilda) 2024 Second Round Selection + Pick 34 | Gives them the ‘early second’ for Henry
• Pick 49 --> (Essendon) D'Ambrosio

AFL Phantom Draft
Pick 1 (WCE): Reid
Pick 2 (GC matched bid): Walter
Pick 3 (NM): Duursma
Pick 4 (NM): McKercher
Pick 5 (WB): Watson
Pick 6 (Haw): Daniel Curtin
Pick 18 (Haw): William McCabe | matched with Picks 28, 34 | Pick 34 becomes Pick 49
Pick 40 (Haw): Calsher Dear | matched with Pick 49
Pick 50 (Haw): Best available

Ins
Bailey Smith
Mabior Chol
Massimo D’Ambrosio
Daniel Curtin
William McCabe
Calsher Dear
???
Newcombe (elevated)

Starting 22
B: Sicily Blanck Hardwick
HB: Weddle Curtin Jiath
C: Amon Nash Ward
HF: CMac Chol Moore
F: Breust Lewis Impey
Fol: Reeves Newcombe Day
Int: Mackenzie* Smith Maginness Ramsden
Sub: Scrimshaw
*More likely Worpel starts ahead of Mackenzie but for team balance Mackenzie can play across half-back in a Sheezel role.

Like almost all of it - only question would be why would we hang onto 28 and 34? figure we could trade up trade back or ideally into futures and then use futures to trade back into similar spots this year with at least one of them. We don’t need that many points for McCabe.

 

[Alsmypal]

What I gleaned out of this is I would have thought we wouldn’t be doing any deals with WC on Friday until we knew we couldn’t land Reid (or we’d have that as part of the deal).
Yes I’m sure it can be done separately with WC but unlikely imo.
IF this is accurate info.

 

[Flukey!]

If Chol has struggled to get a game at GC this year, what are his chances next year with Walter coming in?
GC won't want him in the twos for 2 more years.
Surely they will come around to something sensible?

 

[KermitJagger]

There's not rating Worpel, and then there's nonsense like this. Worpel isn't a great user of the ball but Tim Taranto was the worst ball user in the comp this season and he cost 2 firsts.

Unsure what you're disagreeing with here barbster but if it's about Taranto, he was the worst mid in the league in terms of ball use this season - only player near him in terms of overall DE and KE was Viney who is also a butcher of the highest order:



If it's about your belief that Worpel is only worth a pick within 20 - 30, I suggest you support a team with players you actually rate - given your sensitivity towards Tom’s plight with our meany weany coaches, might I suggest Collingwood?

 

[MasterSamurai]

Unsure what you're disagreeing with here barbster but if it's about Taranto, he was the worst mid in the league in terms of ball use this season - only player near him in terms of overall DE and KE was Viney who is also a butcher of the highest order:

View attachment 1829888

If it's about your belief that Worpel is only worth a pick within 20 - 30, I suggest you support a team with players you actually rate - given your sensitivity towards Tom’s plight with our meany weany coaches, might I suggest Collingwood?

Maybe you quoting the wrong poster. You seem to be agreeing with Kermit about worpel been underated here. No way is he going to be given away for pick in the 20's! That's a complete joke! Top ten or gtfo.

 

[barbster]

Unsure what you're disagreeing with here barbster but if it's about Taranto, he was the worst mid in the league in terms of ball use this season - only player near him in terms of overall DE and KE was Viney who is also a butcher of the highest order:

View attachment 1829888

If it's about your belief that Worpel is only worth a pick within 20 - 30, I suggest you support a team with players you actually rate - given your sensitivity towards Tom’s plight with our meany weany coaches, might I suggest Collingwood?

First of all Toranto cost Richmond a round 1 (#14) and round 2 pick (#22), so get it right. Taranto then went on to win Richmond’s Best & Fairest this year, his first year at the club, so he must be doing something right. Stats only show part of the picture.
Worpel struggled to get a game last year, there’s no denying that, Sam gave him a free run this year with TOM being moved on. I expect Ward to surpass Worpel next year and potentially MacKenzie to do the same. Nash, Day and Newcombe already have.

 

[naysayer]

Taranto won Richmond’s Best & Fairest this year in his first year at the club, must be doing something right.
Worpel struggled to get a game last year, Sam gave him a free run this year with TOM being moved on. I expect Ward to surpass Worpel next year and potentially MacKenzie and MacDonald to do the same. Nash, Day and Newcombe all ready have.

Depends what you mean by surpass. Nobody has surpassed him as a clearance player. There seems to be a consensus that he's peaked and the kids are going past him. He's 24.

 

[Brant]

First of all Toranto cost Richmond a round 1 (#14) and round 2 pick (#22), so get it right. Taranto then went on to win Richmond’s Best & Fairest this year, his first year at the club, so he must be doing something right. Stats only show part of the picture.
Worpel struggled to get a game last year, there’s no denying that, Sam gave him a free run this year with TOM being moved on. I expect Ward to surpass Worpel next year and potentially MacKenzie to do the same. Nash, Day and Newcombe already have.

KermitJagger twice made comments regarding Taranto's ball use (see: disposal efficiency). S/He didn't mention Taranto's effectiveness as a player & whether or not 9'ers rated him - that wasn't the point s/he was making.

 

[barbster]

KermitJagger twice made comments regarding Taranto's ball use (see: disposal efficiency). S/He didn't mention Taranto's effectiveness as a player & whether or not 9'ers rated him - that wasn't the point s/he was making.
[/QUOTE]

Worpel isn't a great user of the ball but Tim Taranto was the worst ball user in the comp this season and he cost 2 firsts.

This is the original comment posted by Kermit that I disagreed with. Have now checked afl website that shows that Ned Moyle had the honour of being ‘the worst ball user’ with a DE% 33.3. Taranto had a DE% 59.5 also noticed Toby Greene (AA captain) had a lower DE% 58.7
Second point that Taranto cost 2 x 1st round picked is also incorrect, it was a 1st & a 2nd round pick, with the 1st being a late pick (#14).

 

[Ned Ryerson]

First of all Toranto cost Richmond a round 1 (#14) and round 2 pick (#22), so get it right.

Being that you’re getting into the pedantry thing - when the trade happened those were picks 12 and 19.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Being that you’re getting into the pedantry thing - when the trade happened those were picks 12 and 19.

All I'm getting out of this discussion is that the whole draft is so compromised with bids, shameless hands out priority picks and academy selections etc. that it's not even clear what a draft order numeral actually means anymore – at least until the draft has taken place. Pick swaps and trades are not included in this criticism.

We can say it's 'indicative Draft order' etc. But it should not be like this. There's way too many mechanisms to dilute picks. Arguably shouldn't be any.

People saying we need to have a pick lottery for the bottom 8, we actually already have a type of one for the whole competition.

It's called 'The Draft'.

 

[naysayer]

KermitJagger twice made comments regarding Taranto's ball use (see: disposal efficiency). S/He didn't mention Taranto's effectiveness as a player & whether or not 9'ers rated him - that wasn't the point s/he was making.

This is the original comment posted by Kermit that I disagreed with. Have now checked afl website that shows that Ned Moyle had the honour of being ‘the worst ball user’ with a DE% 33.3. Taranto had a DE% 59.5 also noticed Toby Greene (AA captain) had a lower DE% 58.7
Second point that Taranto cost 2 x 1st round picked is also incorrect, it was a 1st & a 2nd round pick, with the 1st being a late pick (#14).
[/QUOTE]
Point is that Worpel is a better player than you're painting him to be. He has his deficiencies, but they are actually the most common deficiencies for clearance players. Oliver, Neale, Dangerfield, Viney, Adams. Plenty of them guilty of poor kicking. He is still a young player coming off a career-best year. You're assuming (because he wasn't a high draft-pick), that he doesn't have improvement left in his game. We'll see.

 

[Wizzmania]

What would you trade for Ginnivan?

Absolutely nothing. He is slow and no good. A big pass on that one

 

[KermitJagger]

Broken reply

You're being pedantic as **** here but woe betide me not being as prescriptive as possible when I mentioned the worst ball user. Clearly I thought no one would be so brain-dead as to compare Taranto to a bloke like Moyle who had 9 disposals for the season.

I should specify, worst DE of any regular midfielder and I hope that makes things better.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Are we getting Taranto now?

Why is this still being discussed?

 

[KermitJagger]

Are we getting Taranto now?

Why is this still being discussed?

Because given Taranto and Worpel are both inside mids with bad ball use it's relevant to Worpel's value if he were to be traded? Can we not get precious about posts in here, I had to skip 5 pages because someone said "Buckle up" yesterday. This is nowhere near the worst thing happening in this thread.

 

[bigmaxi]

Are we getting Taranto now?

Why is this still being discussed?

Great news, now that’s a score……..his disposal is a smidge better than Toby Greens I hear. Are we swapping him for Worpol?

 

[DannyJ]

Hold onto your hats today people

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[BIGHAWK23]

Hold onto your hats today people

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Windy?

 

[Alex_au]

Should be a big day today hopefully.

 

[Hawked Wings]

Hold onto your hats today people

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Banned

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

[

Hold onto your hats today people

Should be a big day today hopefully.

Haha you guys are great

 

[The Chad and I]

I just want to remind everybody that our biggest move was on draft night when sleepy Mark unexpectedly traded UP for Weddle - to much ridicule from the media and many supporters!

Trust In Mark.
If it's worth doing, he'll get it done.
If it's not worth doing, he won't.
That's why I am not the slightest bit worried if we don't get a trade done.