List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[Yawkey way]

I wonder if Carlton will have another look at Gresham, they could have done with him last night.

 

[sunny3193]

Harsh on gringo2011

He provides as much humour as Colin Robinson from “What we do in the Shadows “.
Colin is an energy vampire.

 

[The_Steadier]

Gresh is actually one of our best at clearances and contested possession.

In previous 3 (injury interrupted) years = yes.

This year- no.
He was woeful as a mid this year unfortunately- couldn't win a clearance to save his life.

 

[snails13]

What a difference an elite midfield makes to a team
I loved watching how clean GWS were against us and Brisbane after quarter time last night

 

[beside the seaside]

In previous 3 (injury interrupted) years = yes.

This year- no.
He was woeful as a mid this year unfortunately- couldn't win a clearance to save his life.

View attachment 1812261

The issue is also his centre clearances are very low quality. Usually just a hack kick forward, very rarely breaks away and delivers it well.

 

[The_Steadier]

Can someone explain to me why St.Kilda is interested in Shiel at his age? I thought that was another joke rumour from BigFooty, but it looks like it has been reported and talked about. Is it a salary dump?

If he came as a salary dump for basically zero draft pick cost, I actually don't mind it as a concept.

He's no superstar, but he is basically zac jones- but better and able to get on the park.

Our midfield setup with crouch and steele has always looked very damaging on the rare occasions where zippy guys like gresh and/or jones are in and fit+firing.

I think getting a guy like shiel in would make crouch and steele better players- it would be a triple benefit.
As such, I'd be ok with paying shiel ~800k a year of monopoly/salary cap money for a few years if he came for stuff all draft pick cost

 

[The_Steadier]

The issue is also his centre clearances are very low quality. Usually just a hack kick forward, very rarely breaks away and delivers it well.

True- but if he's getting clearances that would otherwise be going in the total opposite direction (ie opposition waltzing it out of the middle time and again like the giants).... then hack fwd clearances are still a win for the team.

Jack Steven, Nat Fyfe, Dangerfield, Oliver- all these guys were/are mostly 'hack it forward quick' clearance guys.

There's nothing wrong with doing it IF you are stealing clearances off the opposition.

 

[gringo2011]

I’d prefer to keep Howard personally.
Yeah he makes some mistakes, bites off more than he can chew occasionally, but which player doesn’t? Not like there’s a lot of KPD around at the moment - not telling you something new.

Now, of course, he’s acquired whipping boy status - there always has to be one.

I'd be happy to move him on if we had a ready made replacement but top FBs aren't easy to find and Van Es looks a couple years off if he makes it at all. Loading up on picks sounds like good idea but realistically we can only carry a certain amount of young players in the side regularly or we tip over into rebuilding inconsistency.

 

[gringo2011]

Harsh on gringo2011

He provides as much humour as Colin Robinson from “What we do in the Shadows “.
Colin is an energy vampire.

Getting called a Colin Robinson by a couple of accountants is about as sad as your life can get.

 

[Saintbloke]

I wonder if Carlton will have another look at Gresham, they could have done with him last night.

The Gresh a few years ago would have been handy, but is not that player anymore. Carlton should have kept their team unchanged going into last night's game.

 

[beside the seaside]

The Gresh a few years ago would have been handy, but is not that player anymore. Carlton should have kept their team unchanged going into last night's game.

I think if Dow had played they would have won

 

[SaintRick88]

What a difference an elite midfield makes to a team
I loved watching how clean GWS were against us and Brisbane after quarter time last night

We need a Chito to become our Tom Green, Pou to become our Bont as our top liner or something similar. I reckon that is all we are really missing to accompany a midfield of Steele / Crouch / Sincs / Ross.

Shiel does nothing for me, I don’t really get it unless it was advantageous from a pick perspective. Gresh we are better for having but happy to explore and be brave. I respect the right to maximise your earnings potential - I’m not sure you see too many of these situations though at cultural powerhouse clubs…

I think the rest of the pieces can come together just fine if we can nail the midfield finally. The difference for us is this elite midfield clearly as the forward connectivity piece will come.

 

[#1_pigeonracer]

Bombers fans convinced we are working a plan to give them Gresh, then trade pick 13 for Shiel + their 2nd and the 'win' for us is that they pay Shiel's contract so that we have cap space...

FMD...

Tell me we haven't been that delusional in past years?!?

Yes but we've somehow convinced ourselves of some elaborate sceme that sees us getting Band 1 for Gresh then trading into 4, which us perhaps even more delusional.

 

[Moral Decay]

Bravo sir. Well said. Not so sure Gresh is a mid anyway but I suppose when he is he probably is 4th or 5th best and as you say if we were observing another club with the worst midfield in the league hesitating over trading their 5th best mid we'd laugh.

All in.

What's really funny is that last year the Hawks had the worst midfield in the league and they just got rid of their two best mids, one of them a brownlow medalist, for a hand full of beans a Sunny Boy and a packet of Twisties the media went apeshit. OK Mitchell got two third round picks from Collingwood and Cooper Stephens from Geelong. Omeara got them a future second and Lloyd Meek from Freo. And the Hawks midfield got better.

I'm not suggesting we trade out Steele, Crouch or even Seb. I'm saying we should be happy to let go of two mids that aren't our best and if people are willing to pay for them, boner! Getting better than a second rounder for Gresh is a miracle that we should embrace and any second for Clark, just sign the papers before the other teams work out what they've done.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Gresham was the 5th highest goal scorer in the team this year. How are you easily replacing those 21 goals?

It's a fair point that one. We probably shouldn't do anything.

 

[True Believer]

Gresh is actually one of our best at clearances and contested possession.

Sad isn't it. Shows you how much ground we need to make up in the midfield......

 

[ScrappyDo]

Who are these good players we've been flogging off?

Since 2013:

Long - Suns
Acres - Freo
Dunstan - Dees
Hind - Bombers
Hickey - Eagles
H Goddard - Blues
Bruce - Dogs
Stuv - Cats
Newnes - Blues
Stanley - Cats

Any more?

Out of those, I'd suggest only the Stanley Acres and possibly Hickey deals have been detrimental.

At the time we sold them, neither Bruce nor Stuv were "good" players.

We haven't been great at managing our list in the last 10 years (or before that even) but we have generally held onto the few good players we've had until they retired. And look where that got us.

It's reasonable to say that Hickey and The GOAT were good moves since both were poor enough to be quickly moved on by the club they went to.
The 1stRDP for Stanley was also a good deal for us.
BJ.Goddard, N.Dal Santo & B.McEvoy

I can't think of another "good" player weve lost in the last 10 years.

 

[Bertha]

So the suggestion has been King play more games and kick them. Which is fine but we're a pretty low scoring team and I would have thought the idea would be to increase our scoring potential not stagnate.

We average 11 goals and game so I'd suggest .875 a game is reasonably significant if nobody else can replace them, preferably from midfield so that any increase from the forwards actually improves our overall scoring.

We had several first year players in the forward line, if King doesn't make up the difference, then I'd like to think between Pou, Owen's, Caminiti and Sharman, I'd be surprised if they couldn't make up the difference plus some between them.

If we can improve our midfield over the off-season, that's probably worth a couple of goals right there. If we can get the right service in, then we have the goal kickers to finish the work off.

 

[Bertha]

Bombers fans convinced we are working a plan to give them Gresh, then trade pick 13 for Shiel + their 2nd and the 'win' for us is that they pay Shiel's contract so that we have cap space...

FMD...

Tell me we haven't been that delusional in past years?!?

That's an example of how long-term chroming effects your executive function.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Unless we somehow manage to pull off this wild draft tampering scheme with the Don's, I think it's much more likely that if we are looking to move up the order draft wise, we will be in the frame for the pick that GC trade pick 4 for, rather than pick 4 itself.

If Gresh gets band 2, I could see us trading that plus a pick around 25-35 to GC for a pick between 10-15.

IE, if GC trade pick 4 to the Dees for 13, 28, and 34, I could see us offering 19/20 and 33/34 for that Dees pick 13.

With the apparent evenness of the draft after the top 6 or so picks, it may not be the worst year to have two mid-round picks. I could also see us trying to move up again to Geelong's pick 7 with those two picks if Sanders is still on the board on draft night.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I guess the best thing about a Collingwood Brisbane gf is that one of them has to lose.

 

[SteeleSaints]

At least be consistent from one post to another. You are all over the place. Every off season you haunt this place like the Grim Reaper killing any optimism with your incessant negativity.
Now so you can continue your misery you don't want us to trade some underperformers. Is this so you can continue to moan and play the victim? God forbid we try to improve

Forgive me for not being the giant bed wetter that is inherent with the usual suspects on here.
Would hate to live with the depressed mindset of some in here. Especially about football.
It is a past time but some see it as life or death.

Have a nice day. Out today with my family, suggest you do the same, it is a glorious day.

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Agree.

Gringo ease up on the negativity mate. We do have a history of poor list management, but the people making those decisions have left.

“Stop being a prisoner of your past. Become the architect of your future.”
Robin Sharma

 

[saintbill]

Not sure Shiel does anything for us. He is very similar to Ross IMO. Don't think either will be best 22 next year.

The midfield will get better via Owens, Pou and hopefully Windhager. Going to take a few years though unfortunately.

Steele was poor this year. If he gets back to somewhere close to his best and the kids improve another 15%, Sincs moves into the midfield, then it doesn't look too bad at all.

Steele, Crouch, Sinclair, Owens as your main centre clearance mids. Pou, Windhager, maybe Dow or even Stocker on occassion. Actually looks pretty good to me.

Covering Sincs creativity at half back is not easy, but NAS is a genuine gun now and can be the number 1 playmaker down there. Maybe even Coffield slots back into half back if he is retained. For me, assuming everybody is fit, the best 22 next year looks something like this:

Battle​		Howard​		Webster​
NAS​		Wilkie​		Stocker​
Hill​		Steele​		Wood​
Pou​		Sherman​		Owens​
Higgins​		King​		Butler​
Marshall​	Crouch​	Sinclair​
Henry​	Coffield​	Windhager​	Hayes​

A fit McKenzie or Jones would also play before Ross and Shiel IMO.

If it helps us to get band 1 compo I get it, but Shiel won't improve our side.

 

[Saintsydney]

I think if Dow had played they would have won

Probably would have been better than Crips

 

[gubby88]

Probably would have been better than Crips

Dow didn't play finals yet still had a better series than Charlie haha

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