Rumour 2024 Hypothetical trade and FA Thread

[TheFourPillars]

I think that’s an unfair comment, you don’t have to agree but it’s fine to have a different view of how we should be using our assets going forward.

Yeah maybe it is but maybe it isn't when you are so focused on the draft to the exclusion of anything else including trading. I mean I heard these same noises last year when we got Chol and Ginni. We need to use all the available resources to get ourselves competing as soon as possible. We need to take risks. Drafting someone especially a KPD or KPF is a risk in itself DGB is an example. It means we will be waiting around for them to get fit for purpose. We are done waiting and developing. We are into the express lane now. Our focus going forward has shifted expect many moves like this going forward.

 

[bigmaxi]

Mitchell is trying to mimic the team Clarkson put together it feels like. Gun backs and good kicking lefties. The rest will take care of itself.

if i may, more so the team he played in. Sam was at the coal face with those guys and knows what we need. I say go for both, get one great get two amazing our list improves exponentially. Get none ...sad bigmaxi

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Over the last three years we've brought in the equivalent of nine first round picks through drafting and savy trades:

21 - Ginnivan, D'Ambrosio, Ward, Macdonald
20 - Mackenzie, Weddle
19 - Watson
18 - Dear, McCabe

Getting cheap trades like Ginnivan and D'Ambrosio, and uncovering gems like Dear, makes the need to take a first rounder far less pressing.

As much as I'd like us to draft someone like Kako, Travaglia or Lalor (you can never have enough elite talents) we are in a position now where we can afford to trade first rounders.

 

[KermitJagger]

Listening to this at the moment and Barrass seems like a great bloke. Good pick ups are good footy players, but also good blokes. He feels very introspective and thoughtful, if anyone is going to work through pain and keep playing footy he seems like the type of guy who will.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

We want to use our pick this year to bring in players to complement our best 22, that part of our strategy has been made clear for at least 18 months.

Acquiring a KPD is clearly one of our highest list management priorities. We targeted Esava, McKay and O'Sullivan last year.

The stars are aligning for us to get one of the competition's best key defenders – a clear part of our strategy – in a draft we have planned to trade out of for a while. Seems like an opportunity too hard to pass off.

Also worth remembering this draft is supposedly really even. If there's someone we like on the night we can just trade back in using a future pick – which is why the example of Weddle as opportunity cost is strange to me, as he's proof there are multiple ways to land targets rather than taking your first pick to the draft and calling it a night.

 

[scrim reaper]

I imagine if we had Barrass right now and someone offered a pick around 10-15 for him everyone on here would say absolutely not.

 

[lyger]

And those 97 games would most likely include 30-40 very average games at the start of their career.

If we get 3 seasons/60 odd games out of him, that is the equivalent of 100 games from a pick 10 given Barrass comes straight in fully developed and we get those games whilst Day, Newk, Nash etc are in their prime rather than in 4 years time.

To add further, we can also reasonably expect that many games played by Barrass will be high quality and will include some match winning performances.

And this in turn will help fast track our development. Helping to improve others around him, and our performances as a team. That’s the benefit of bringing in a high calibre player. Let’s do it.

 

[cryptor]

Based on what I've been reading about this draft if we had our eye on a player to select with a pick in the teens then there's every chance that player or an equally talented player could still be there at a pick in the 20's.

I wouldn't hesitate to trade our first this year to get Barrass. Then on draft night make the move with future picks if someone we like is still on the board.

 

[tl92]

If my grandmother had wheels.

List management teams aren't constantly flying by the seat of their pants, they have plans and preferences in terms of what is available to them in the market and who is available to them with the picks that they have. I doubt if we were finishing bottom 4 again that we'd be jumping to offer our first for Barass because it would indicate that we're a fair bit further away than we thought, and also that we'd have more of a priority choice to a player we really liked.

As it sits, we're on a bit of a tear at the end of the season, our side looks relatively ready to challenge and the +/- on getting Barass to fix a weakness in defence is probably higher than picking the best available kid and waiting 3 or 4 years for them to develop.

Pick 10 average from 2000 is 92. Pick 10 average from 2000 - 2018 is 107. They're not worlds apart.

A few outliers at pick 10, like a Nathan Freeman really throw the numbers out. Think it gives more context when you look at say Pick 11 which averages 150 games from 1998 to 2016, with many still playing. Obviously those outliers can happen, but I think it’s fair to expect a good player at pick 10, backing the list management team to not pick those outliers. But ofcourse not without some risk.

 

[Iceman!]

Yeah maybe it is but maybe it isn't when you are so focused on the draft to the exclusion of anything else including trading. I mean I heard these same noises last year when we got Chol and Ginni. We need to use all the available resources to get ourselves competing as soon as possible. We need to take risks. Drafting someone especially a KPD or KPF is a risk in itself DGB is an example. It means we will be waiting around for them to get fit for purpose. We are done waiting and developing. We are into the express lane now. Our focus going forward has shifted expect many moves like this going forward.

See I just disagree that we need to do everything to compete as soon as possible, I think it’s important that we make sure when we are competing it as a genuine flag chance and not a fringe top 4 team.

 

[CobberRodgers]

if i may, more so the team he played in. Sam was at the coal face with those guys and knows what we need. I say go for both, get one great get two amazing our list improves exponentially. Get none ...sad bigmaxi

This.

You can already see the impact Sam has had on the midfield aggression and the aggression full stop.

We now as a team have some characteristics the man had himself when he played and what he knows are non negotiables of successful football teams.

No matter what happens we are a nightmare to play against, and if teams all walk away after playing us saying geez that was tough no matter the result then we are moving in the right direction.

 

[Iceman!]

I imagine if we had Barrass right now and someone offered a pick around 10-15 for him everyone on here would say absolutely not.

A difference between a player we already have a sending our assets. It’s also the contract that will be required to get him. Sounds like he’s wanting 5 years.

 

[TheFourPillars]

See I just disagree that we need to do everything to compete as soon as possible, I think it’s important that we make sure when we are competing it as a genuine flag chance and not a fringe top 4 team.

Fringe top 4?

Let me break this down for you mate so you understand where i am coming from. I don't understand your thinking mate especially since we have gone down this path very recently. We saluted in 2008 did we have all the parts for our 3peat. No. We gradually built the rest of the team as we went year on year. The only way i see your thinking working is if you believe we are missing 6 to 7 players instead of the 2 or 3.

Now given we are going hard for I believe is a gun KPD, one of the 3 players we need and maybe another back line player (bonus) in battle this changes what we do going forward. This may actually fix our other weakness in attack a lack of a KPF. We shift Weddle or McCabe forward who are on the list already. McCabe played forward all of his junior years before last year being shifted into defence. His kicking for goal is natural and he is athletically gifted. The only other player we desperately need is a speedy outside mid. These kinds of players appear in every draft.

All things going to plan we still keep on adding to the list just like the period of 2008 - 2015. Why would you think we would be fringe anything...

 

[excitingnews]

I was initially pretty hesitant about getting barrass in, but Mitch just has not missed since he’s taken over. I still remember the shit we copped after he claimed we already had most of our next premiership list assembled, but who’s laughing now?
At this point, if Mitch and the club tick it off I am confident that he’ll end up being a star for us and I can’t wait to see us have a serious crack at the flag next year.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

I imagine if we had Barrass right now and someone offered a pick around 10-15 for him everyone on here would say absolutely not.

But we would do it because we're Hawthorn and we are FAIR

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Our talent ID and development has been great at the draft for many years.

 

[KermitJagger]

See I just disagree that we need to do everything to compete as soon as possible, I think it’s important that we make sure when we are competing it as a genuine flag chance and not a fringe top 4 team.

How do you know when that will be, though?

It's easy to look at clubs in the past and say that they were a fringe top 4 team. Future GWS flag dominance seemed almost unavoidable in 2016, flash forward to now and they're on the older end of the team spectrum and pretty close to being remembered as a fringe top 4 team. Geelong would have been in a similar situation if not for the 2022 flag, they were fringe top 4 for almost a decade.

People talk about flag windows like they take 3 years to open, 3 years to close, and stay closed for 3 years. The reality is that they're either locked or flapping open and closed like shutters in a strong wind. As soon as you think you might have a chance to build to something, you do it - within reason.

 

[RCAB]

Yeah maybe it is but maybe it isn't when you are so focused on the draft to the exclusion of anything else including trading. I mean I heard these same noises last year when we got Chol and Ginni. We need to use all the available resources to get ourselves competing as soon as possible. We need to take risks. Drafting someone especially a KPD or KPF is a risk in itself DGB is an example. It means we will be waiting around for them to get fit for purpose. We are done waiting and developing. We are into the express lane now. Our focus going forward has shifted expect many moves like this going forward.

I was happy with Chol and Ginni. I was also happy with Lake, Gibson and Hale. Your post was a low level attack at nothing and fairly clueless.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I was happy with Chol and Ginni. I was also happy with Lake, Gibson and Hale. Your post was a low level attack at nothing and fairly clueless.

I have clearly explained my chain of thought in this thread. Can you possibly do the same without pointing to the Draft as the pot of gold or referring to past failures as a lesson. If you want to achieve you need to take risks if you sit there and go the norm then you become the norm and don't stand out. You don't achieve

 

[hawkinoz]

I am surprised more people aren’t scared at the Barrass quotes that were posed a few pages back…

His comments on his back set off huge alarm bells for me. Especially when more often than not a player is going to try and downplay these sorts of issues.

See if you can find those quotes. Seems deleted. A media snippet of same comments
View attachment 1894245-bada330115101e5f350436d68f255171.mov

From article, This is what Tom Barrass said himself:

“It still gives me a bit of trouble in my everyday life. It’s OK when I’m moving but as soon as I’m static I feel like I’ve got a broken back again,” Barrass said.

“It’s a permanent thing and it’s something that I work on from the second I wake up I’ve got to do my mobility and get moving and find a way to come to work.

…

“But with the physiotherapy and some of the other medical treatments that are available to me, I’m able to get out of bed and get moving and get on with my life mostly,” he said.

“If I do it again I’m certainly in trouble but mate, I’m like you, I’ve got a mortgage, this is my job and I’ve got a family and I’ve got to go to work everyday.

“There’s a point at which I’ll certainly stop trying or have to completely prioritise things (at home) but I’ve got a job.

“I’ve got a role to play and I’m going to do my very best to balance all the balls while I can and if that becomes unmanageable I’ll have to say goodbye.”

PS : Tom will improve hawks for sure but I am not on board with a straight swap of first round pick.

if its is a pick btw 10-15, I would prefer a 2nd rounder back. If pick btw 15-18, a 3rd rounder back.

Given the tigers are auctioning their stars, we will get a more precise idea of TB's value vis-a-vis other players.

Obviously i will go with any decision of HFC.

Also if someone can gurantee a single flag with next 3-4 yrs, i am happy to give 2 first round picks. forget 2, even 3+ first rounders is on board

 

[number23]

Reported on the Saints board:

2024 Draft Thread.

I’m struggling with the logic behind why we would do this? Where has this been mentioned If FOS has a big finish to the season I can see why, he'd fit our midfield perfectly

www.bigfooty.com

So I am hearing that if we end up with 5 and 6 (FA compensation) that we will try and turn that into 1 and a later first from 10 onwards. Do you think thats a good idea?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Someone today on SEN was emphatic that Battle will re sign today and it will be announced on Monday. Brian ....

Did any anyone listen to SEN this morning to know whether this "someone" was a journo or listener?

 

[hawkheart]

The behaviour of these players all trying to jump off a sinking ship is incredible.

They are all happy to sign the massive deals when they are flying and then when things get a bit tough all want to jump ship.

What about Baker, Bolton, Lynch, Graham, etc etc show a bit of grunt and help with the rebuild while things are a bit tough as they are all being paid extremely well and have had a heap of success.

Chief rat, D Hardwick

 

[TylerDurden]

Reported on the Saints board:

2024 Draft Thread.

I’m struggling with the logic behind why we would do this? Where has this been mentioned If FOS has a big finish to the season I can see why, he'd fit our midfield perfectly

www.bigfooty.com

Someone today on SEN was emphatic that Battle will re sign today and it will be announced on Monday. Brian ....

Did any anyone listen to SEN this morning to know whether this "someone" was a journo or listener?

This was my mail. Emphatic he was staying.

 

[RCAB]

I have clearly explained my chain of thought in this thread. Can you possibly do the same without pointing to the Draft as the pot of gold or referring to past failures as a lesson. If you want to achieve you need to take risks if you sit there and go the norm then you become the norm and don't stand out. You don't achieve

Tom Barass is one of the premier defenders in competition and would easily take Frost's position. Tom Barass could be the pot of gold. He is also going to be 29 if we were to trade for him, and with his injury concerns could be Fool's Gold.

Gibson was 24 when we traded for him, and Hale was 27.

Lake was a similar story to Barass, 30 and with injury issues. With no disrespect to Tom, but Lake was a better player and we traded our pick 21 got pick 27 back. So basically nothing.

I'm not saying I don't want Barass, (unlike McKay last year, I didn't want him at all), I do want Barass but the Eagles will have to take a second round or later, and that's what they'll have to take, they're not with the bargaining hand if the player wants to leave.

 

[KermitJagger]

Tom Barass is one of the premier defenders in competition and would easily take Frost's position. Tom Barass could be the pot of gold. He is also going to be 29 if we were to trade for him, and with his injury concerns could be Fool's Gold.

Gibson was 24 when we traded for him, and Hale was 27.

Lake was a similar story to Barass, 30 and with injury issues. With no disrespect to Tom, but Lake was a better player and we traded our pick 21 got pick 27 back. So basically nothing.

I'm not saying I don't want Barass, (unlike McKay last year, I didn't want him at all), I do want Barass but the Eagles will have to take a second round or later, and that's what they'll have to take, they're not with the bargaining hand if the player wants to leave.

They're not going to take a second rounder or later, they shouldn't have to take a second rounder or later. He's contracted, he's in demand and he's playing good football.

Lake was unfit, unwanted and the Dogs were actively trying to push him out. The market for him was cold. You can't use it as a basis for comparison.