List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[Docker82]

Agree, which is why I don't want us to get him.

I think we will over pay massively (pick 7 and 16) and 1 million dollars

I don't think the price would be much more than pick 7 tbh. Pick 16 might be involved but only if we get a good second rounder back.

People in the media and fans like to focus on the highest picks traded but never talk about the slightly smaller pieces traded back. The difference between pick 16 and pick 21 might actually be nothing if the player we would've selected at pick 16 is still available

We have every right to walk away and target someone more appropriately priced. As a club we still need to use at least two or three selections and they may as well be decent ones even if we trade players in.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Cmon, if you have watched them both play you would know which one out of Bolton and Owies is better. It's actually not even close.

I think he's worth the Pies pick so pick 7 and maybe the saints second rounder (pick 24?). Would be very happy to get it done and increase our chances of winning a flag.

I agree he looks a better player, but the stats don't back it up.

He is very flashy.

Why is he a better player? Does he apply more pressure?

Change the defensive zone due to his speed?

I don't see any stats to back it up, but agree his a marginally a better player but Owies is only worth a 2nd rounder, and half the cash.

 

[rgauci]

Cmon, if you have watched them both play you would know which one out of Bolton and Owies is better. It's actually not even close.

I think he's worth the Pies pick so pick 7 and maybe the saints second rounder (pick 24?). Would be very happy to get it done and increase our chances of winning a flag.

Pies is pick 8, will blow out to 9-10.

Same deal with 16, probably around 20. I think if we give two early picks for Baker and Bolton, I’d hope Richmond are paying some of the contracts. I mean who the **** are they going to pay?

 

[dont bowl there]

BTW, Owies has kicked 10 goals in the 8 losses he's played in this year. Almost like it's bloody hard to impact games as a small forward when your team is losing. He kicked 9 in his 7 losses last year.

 

[dont bowl there]

I agree he looks a better player, but the stats don't back it up.

He is very flashy.

Why is he a better player? Does he apply more pressure?

Change the defensive zone due to his speed?

I don't see any stats to back it up, but agree his a marginally a better player but Owies is only worth a 2nd rounder, and half the cash.

Marginally better...at least argue in good faith. Owies would save salary and picks, you could argue we might be able to use the savings on someone else that helps us but to argue they are marginally close players is just silly.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Marginally better...at least argue in good faith. Owies would save salary and picks, you could argue we might be able to use the savings on someone else that helps us but to argue they are marginally close players is just silly.

Explain why Bolton is better than Owies?

What does he do that is so good?

What stats do you have to back it up?

To be honest, I was expecting Bolton to be pretty close to Rankine and Greene from a stats perspective, but he is a clear level down. He lack of polish concerns me massively.

Everything talks him up as being classy, but I think he misses as many goals or passes as he hits. He is very quick though.

 

[MadMundy]

We can go around in circles as much as we like in regards to what is a "fair trade" for Bolton, but at the end of the day, he's got 4 years to go on his contract, any semblance of fair is out the window, if we want him we're going to have to come to the table with a good offer.

 

[dont bowl there]

Explain why Bolton is better than Owies?

What does he do that is so good?

What stats do you have to back it up?

I just gave you stats, his worst goal kicking season of the past 4 is better than Owies best season. Not to mention that Owies has never averaged 10 touches in a season where Bolton had 31 goals and averaged 21 last season...marginally better.

 

[Joao]

I'd have Bolton over Owies just so I don't have to look at Owies' head every week.

 

[Docker82]

I think some people are underrating Owies here tbh. Good young player.

 

[Joao]

I think some people are underrating Owies here tbh. Good young player.

He's a decent small forward in the Schultz class (offensively at least), but that head...

 

[dont bowl there]

I think some people are underrating Owies here tbh. Good young player.

He's fine, but he's not marginally worse than Bolton. Put him on this years Tigers and he wouldn't have 15 goals.

 

[Taylor]

Bolton can be a high impact mid rotation too.

 

[wakojako]

I'd have Bolton over Owies just so I don't have to look at Owies' head every week.

He reminds me of Sid from Toy Story

 

[malpaso]

I'd trade Erasmus to the Tigers if it meant keeping a first round pick as well. Let's face it, Johnson is ahead of him and we still have Brodie as cover for Fyfe's role for another year.
Meanwhile draft another midfielder like Hayden Young

26

Hayden Young

Age

23

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.4

2star

MG

160.0

3star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

160.0

3star

that can start out in the backline..

 

[Swiggy]

I'd trade Erasmus to the Tigers if it meant keeping a first round pick as well. Let's face it, Johnson is ahead of him and we still have Brodie as cover for Fyfe's role for another year.
Meanwhile draft another midfielder like Hayden Young that can start out in the backline..

i doubt Erasmus would be much value in a trade like that, the draft is good Richmond will want picks

 

[SPEEDWAGON]

matt owies is 27 and can barely kick 40 metres

 

[SPEEDWAGON]

richmond may have interest in knobel

 

[wakojako]

richmond may have interest in knobel

Nah we got the picks, we need another developing ruckman. Darcy's 57% availability over his career is atrocious and Knobel has a high ceiling.

 

[Swiggy]

Nah we got the picks, we need another developing ruckman. Darcy's 57% availability over his career is atrocious and Knobel has a high ceiling.

Has Knobel re-signed?

 

[Docker82]

Far out for some reason I was thinking of Owens from St Kilda. I had no idea what people were on about haha.

Yes, Bolton is much better than Owies from Carlton. Owies would not improve us - he's a slightly better but much older Emmett. Small forwards and one more A Grade mid are what will hold back Carlton just like us - We have the same problems as they do tbh.

 

[wakojako]

Has Knobel re-signed?

Nobody knows, but the club is deep in talks with Reid which is a worry.

 

[Lach72]

Being desperate does not mean you massively overpay.

This is old fremantle, where we would over pay for someone and then wonder why Lobb is playing for our side.

We need to be smart.

You shit your pants at the thought of a trade. It’s getting old.

We have three vastly inferior small forwards in Emmett, Switkowski and Frederick who barely cover Bolton goal tally between them and the decaying corpse of Michael Walters.


This argument is inane

 

[Lach72]

Owies

FMD

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Why is Shai Bolton worth pick 7 alone, let alone pick 7 and pick 16 plus 1 million dollars a year.

Here are his stats, and we saw in our game he inflated them by having his team mate mark the ball (do the hard work) and do a short pass to him in the square.

His goal assists is very low. Can someone please point me towards some stats that show his value? If he was not a premiership player, then no one would talk him as much as they do.

I was expecting them to be much better, but he is a clear level behind the best Rankine and Green.


All stats are for current year, order by goals + goals assists.

I would rather through some cash at Matthew Owies, than target Bolton. You would probably get him for 500 to 600k and a 2nd rounder.

Toby Green and Izak Rankine average 3 goals and goal assists a game.
Bolton, Weightman, Owies aver 2 goals and goal assists a game.
Jones and Ginnivan averages 1.6 goals and goal assists a game.
Schultz at 1.4 (in a bad year)

	KI	MK	HB	DI	GL	BH	HO	TK	RB	IF	CL	CG	FF	FA	BR	CP	UP	CM	MI	1%	BO	GA	G+GA
Toby Green	10.95	4.5	4.95	15.9	1.85	1.25		2.2	0.2	4.5	1.4	3.75	0.95	1.75		6.65	9.5	0.5	1.2	0.5	0.05	1.2	3.05​
Izak Rankine	11.79	3.36	6.93	18.71	1.93	0.64		3.43	0.79	4.07	3.79	3.71	0.79	1.29		10	9.57	0.14	1.14	1.64	1.5	1.07	3​
Coby Weightman	6.79	2.79	3.43	10.21	1.71	0.86		3.21	0.29	2.14	0.86	2.29	1.36	0.64		4.93	5.71	0.21	1.29	1.21		0.36	2.07​
Shai Bolton	10.2	3.75	7	17.2	1.5	1.2		2.55	0.4	3.95	3.35	3.85	0.6	0.85		7.3	10.45	0.45	1.5	1.5	2.15	0.55	2.05​
Matthew Owies	5.71	2.95	2.71	8.43	1.38	0.62		2.29	0.1	1.57	0.05	1.24	0.52	0.57		3.1	5.38	0.19	1.05	0.86	0.05	0.62	2​
Jack Ginnivan	10.53	4.21	6.26	16.79	1.21	1.21		2.63	0.16	3.16	1.16	3.21	1	0.89		5.32	11.42	0.05	1.32	0.79	0.11	0.42	1.63​
Darcy Jones	7.3	2.1	5.8	13.1	1	0.5		2.5	0.4	3	0.4	2	0.1	0.4		4.9	8.3		0.7	1	0.5	0.6	1.6​
Lachie Shultz	6.67	3.11	5.11	11.78	1.22	1.06		3.83	0.22	2	0.78	2.17	0.61	0.72		4	7.5	0.17	1.44	1.22		0.17	1.39​

I think you're doing a version of what 1 of the Richmond fans was doing on the Bolton thread in taking stats out of context. There's a post that goes (now outdated stats) "players who've averaged 17.5 touches 1.5 goals 3.5 clearances: Bolton Warner Rankine" making it out like Shai Bolton is a unique specimen. Those stats are related to where he plays positionally and in terms of quality of team. There's about 10 other players in the AFL that I think could easily have those stats or better if you either increase their midfield time or fwd time to match Bolton's: guys like Papley, Greene, Bont, Petracca, etc.

But equally, your own stats are also fairly selectively used. After Rankine, there's nobody else on that list who's close to Bolton clearance wise. That's coz Bolton's attended 55% of centre bounces for his team this season. Even Rankine's only averaged 39%, nobody else on your list has significant CBA%, and Stringer and Pickett are probably the only other significant goalscorers this year with high-ish CBA% (over 30%).

The other context is that we're talking about a player playing for the clear worst offensive team (and the worst team in general) in the league. Nobody else on Shai's team has kicked 20 this year, and he also leads his team for total score involvements and goal assists (there are players averaging more, but who haven't played as much, largely due to injury). He's naturally getting a level of attention that really only Rankine on that list gets (even he has more real teammates fwd of centre than Bolton does). You need to give him someone to play off of and increase his fwd time to make it a more apples-to-apples comparison: I don't think it's a coincidence that he had his best season of the last 3 when he had Lynch in particular to play off, and his worst season when he had nothing.

What you're paying for is attributes, and then it's the players' and coaches' jobs to turn attributes into production. How many players have the combo of what Shai Bolton does in terms of ground level work, speed, skill, leads, fwd craft and X factor? Hell, Michael Frederick isn't half the player Shai is and he's become a source of annoyance in the fact he's plateaued these past couple years, but especially when you watch live you can see the amount of headaches he causes a defence with his unique attributes. You can't ever let Freddy get close to goal side or you're ****ed, and if he gets ahead of you and is spotted on the lead you just gotta pray to Jesus he drops the mark or misses.

I don't think Shai is quite as unique as Richmond fans are making him out to be, but he's a whole lot better than "if him and Owies are both on the table, go Owies to save some coin" level.