List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[Docker82]

Acres goes in that list too you'd assume - trade value is hidden because it was in the Brad Hill trade, but I think it's safe to say it fits that bill. Only thing wrong with that trade is that we didn't keep the bloke.

I think that collection is more of a mixed bag than you're making it out to be. I'd generally divide them btwn "players who were brought in with a specific and realistic purpose in mind that adds value to the team" (Hamling, Aish, Acres, Lobb, Colyer (speed), debatably Conca coz leadership, debatably JOM coz leadership and actually ok at football), the "we can fix you" types (McCarthy, Matera) and the "aight wtf did you expect" (Kersten, Corbett). To me, when we've actually brought in players to fit a proper purpose, they've at least done okay: they either fulfilled their purpose or were on their way to doing so before other stuff interfered (for Hamling specifically his foot exploded).

I know the focus was trades (though Conca was FA), but Sharp specifically pretty much belongs in that group. It wasn't a Voss situation where we only gave him a chance through SSP and he knocked the door down or an Oscar McDonald who had a year in VFL btwn teams. His contract ran out, Dimma actually wanted him to stay but he said no, so he was "delisted" and basically immediately signed with us. That's a player we picked up on the cheap identifying what he could bring to the team, and it has worked out.

To me, getting players on the cheap from other clubs is like any tool in your toolbox: it can do the job it's suited for. Using Joe Richards as an example because he's been linked with us, fits that bill, and got disrespected this past week with how he was "used" as sub. Can I see a world where we come to the conclusion he's a better option than anything else we can use that list spot and draft capital on? To me, the answer is yes.

Right now, it looks like there will be a level of list spot crunch as you said, which makes those options less palatable. But how often do these things change? Just last year JL talked about how in 2022 we turned over like 25% of our list and we didn't want a repeat of that...only to pretty much get a repeat of that.

I can’t consider Sharp and Voss the same tbh. We haven’t even used a spot on the senior list on them yet.

We never should’ve brought players like Kersten, Matera, Conca and Colyer to the club. They weren’t much good and we knew that before we brought them in.

When we’ve used second rounders or better to bring players in they’ve usually done alright (Hamling, Wilson, Lobb) or even good (Clark, Hill). That’s still a decent draft selection. When we’ve traded less they’ve been sh**e pretty much every time. The proof is staring everyone right in the face tbh.

Our club has consistently drafted better players with third and fourth round picks than we’ve traded in with those selections.

 

[s_wd6]

I think Voss is perfect KPD depth, especially with more time to develop. He literally just turned 21. See what he can do with a couple extra pre seasons and some marking practice. Already has the strength.

Played a shit game but I think it's stupid to talk about delisting him when we have no one else as depth.

 

[Docker82]

I think Voss is perfect KPD depth, especially with more time to develop. He literally just turned 21. See what he can do with a couple extra pre seasons and some marking practice. Already has the strength.

Played a shit game but I think it's stupid to talk about delisting him when we have no one else as depth.

Most on here would’ve said he’s good depth two days ago. There’s some reactionary people on here for sure.

Honestly think we should be delisting all KPFs that aren’t best 22 or in their first season on our list. The others aren’t helping our depth at all and are old enough that’s unlikely to change as harsh as that is on someone like Kuek.

 

[FreoRicci]

I think Voss is perfect KPD depth, especially with more time to develop. He literally just turned 21. See what he can do with a couple extra pre seasons and some marking practice. Already has the strength.

Played a shit game but I think it's stupid to talk about delisting him when we have no one else as depth.

I agree.
People underestimate the mental effects of coming in for one game and trying to do utmost best to keep the spot. It’s huge pressure. He’s the first one dropped if Darcy is ever fit. I’d rather try Amiss, Jackson, Voss with Treacy and Darcy.
It’s not like Jackson is a world beater. Voss and Treacy would smash packs and help Amiss.

If that’s the case, Treacy should’ve been delisted two years ago, he couldn’t mark consistently and was playing for Peel behind Tabs. People have short memory.

A KPF with his body and development at 21? Sign him up ASAP.
Who else we got? Corbett who’s godawful and Kuek coming off a knee? Sure

 

[BettercallSaul]

Is it just me or does Josh Corbett

19

Josh Corbett

Age

28

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.4

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

fit nicely into Bob Murphy’s role ( if we plan to delist him)? What the “role” is , is impossible to quantify…chief of positive vibes?

 

[blue shark]

I agree.
People underestimate the mental effects of coming in for one game and trying to do utmost best to keep the spot. It’s huge pressure. He’s the first one dropped if Darcy is ever fit. I’d rather try Amiss, Jackson, Voss with Treacy and Darcy.
It’s not like Jackson is a world beater. Voss and Treacy would smash packs and help Amiss.

If that’s the case, Treacy should’ve been delisted two years ago, he couldn’t mark consistently and was playing for Peel behind Tabs. People have short memory.

A KPF with his body and development at 21? Sign him up ASAP.
Who else we got? Corbett who’s godawful and Kuek coming off a knee? Sure

Voss will replace Tabs, and if his hands don’t get sticky I’m sure he could be better served in the backline at Peel.
Both Tabs and Hughes have been good servants of the club but their time is up unless we are truly that bad?
Future defence looks promising with Davies, Murphy, McDonald.
But one thing that is different under JLo is the inevitable player loss to the
Eastern states.

 

[Dockeroo]

Most on here would’ve said he’s good depth two days ago. There’s some reactionary people on here for sure.

Honestly think we should be delisting all KPFs that aren’t best 22 or in their first season on our list. The others aren’t helping our depth at all and are old enough that’s unlikely to change as harsh as that is on someone like Kuek.

I’ve argued on here for year we are not cutting enough players at the end of each season. People get so attached to guys that are just not good enough to be long term AFL players. There has been heaps of examples of bizarre contract extensions.

Karl Worner got a 2 year deal as a rookie last year while Sam Sturt only got one year.
Hughes getting 3 years on his last deal.
Brodie signing a 4 year contract and hasn’t played a game since.
Reidy is another puzzler if reports are to be believed. Extending him again but refused to play him last week.

Players like Stanley, kuek and Corbett all need to be cleared out this off season.
It’s a deep draft and we can’t afford to be missing out on potential good players because of misplaced loyalty to rookie listed players from two or three years ago.

 

[dont bowl there]

I’ve argued on here for year we are not cutting enough players at the end of each season. People get so attached to guys that are just not good enough to be long term AFL players. There has been heaps of examples of bizarre contract extensions.

Karl Worner got a 2 year deal as a rookie last year while Sam Sturt only got one year.
Hughes getting 3 years on his last deal.
Brodie signing a 4 year contract and hasn’t played a game since.
Reidy is another puzzler if reports are to be believed. Extending him again but refused to play him last week.

Players like Stanley, kuek and Corbett all need to be cleared out this off season.
It’s a deep draft and we can’t afford to be missing out on potential good players because of misplaced loyalty to rookie listed players from two or three years ago.

It's an AFL thing to hold onto solid citizens for longer than they should. Look at Tom Campbell, he was drafted in 2012 and has played a total of 58 AFL games.

 

[theGav56]

Is it just me or does Josh Corbett fit nicely into Bob Murphy’s role ( if we plan to delist him)? What the “role” is , is impossible to quantify…chief of positive vibes?

Isn't that Mum's job?

 

[blue shark]

I’ve argued on here for year we are not cutting enough players at the end of each season. People get so attached to guys that are just not good enough to be long term AFL players. There has been heaps of examples of bizarre contract extensions.

Karl Worner got a 2 year deal as a rookie last year while Sam Sturt only got one year.
Hughes getting 3 years on his last deal.
Brodie signing a 4 year contract and hasn’t played a game since.
Reidy is another puzzler if reports are to be believed. Extending him again but refused to play him last week.

Players like Stanley, kuek and Corbett all need to be cleared out this off season.
It’s a deep draft and we can’t afford to be missing out on potential good players because of misplaced loyalty to rookie listed players from two or three years ago.

The long term multi million deals aren’t getting the results either.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Why is Shai Bolton

29

Shai Bolton

Age

26

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

worth pick 7 alone, let alone pick 7 and pick 16 plus 1 million dollars a year.

Here are his stats, and we saw in our game he inflated them by having his team mate mark the ball (do the hard work) and do a short pass to him in the square.

His goal assists is very low. Can someone please point me towards some stats that show his value? If he was not a premiership player, then no one would talk him as much as they do.

I was expecting them to be much better, but he is a clear level behind the best Rankine and Green.


All stats are for current year, order by goals + goals assists.

I would rather through some cash at Matthew Owies, than target Bolton. You would probably get him for 500 to 600k and a 2nd rounder.

Toby Green and Izak Rankine

23

Izak Rankine

Age

24

Ht

179cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

2.0

5star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.7

5star

G

2.0

5star

average 3 goals and goal assists a game.
Bolton, Weightman, Owies aver 2 goals and goal assists a game.
Jones and Ginnivan averages 1.6 goals and goal assists a game.
Schultz at 1.4 (in a bad year)

	KI	MK	HB	DI	GL	BH	HO	TK	RB	IF	CL	CG	FF	FA	BR	CP	UP	CM	MI	1%	BO	GA	G+GA
Toby Green	10.95	4.5	4.95	15.9	1.85	1.25		2.2	0.2	4.5	1.4	3.75	0.95	1.75		6.65	9.5	0.5	1.2	0.5	0.05	1.2	3.05​
Izak Rankine	11.79	3.36	6.93	18.71	1.93	0.64		3.43	0.79	4.07	3.79	3.71	0.79	1.29		10	9.57	0.14	1.14	1.64	1.5	1.07	3​
Coby Weightman	6.79	2.79	3.43	10.21	1.71	0.86		3.21	0.29	2.14	0.86	2.29	1.36	0.64		4.93	5.71	0.21	1.29	1.21		0.36	2.07​
Shai Bolton	10.2	3.75	7	17.2	1.5	1.2		2.55	0.4	3.95	3.35	3.85	0.6	0.85		7.3	10.45	0.45	1.5	1.5	2.15	0.55	2.05​
Matthew Owies	5.71	2.95	2.71	8.43	1.38	0.62		2.29	0.1	1.57	0.05	1.24	0.52	0.57		3.1	5.38	0.19	1.05	0.86	0.05	0.62	2​
Jack Ginnivan	10.53	4.21	6.26	16.79	1.21	1.21		2.63	0.16	3.16	1.16	3.21	1	0.89		5.32	11.42	0.05	1.32	0.79	0.11	0.42	1.63​
Darcy Jones	7.3	2.1	5.8	13.1	1	0.5		2.5	0.4	3	0.4	2	0.1	0.4		4.9	8.3		0.7	1	0.5	0.6	1.6​
Lachie Shultz	6.67	3.11	5.11	11.78	1.22	1.06		3.83	0.22	2	0.78	2.17	0.61	0.72		4	7.5	0.17	1.44	1.22		0.17	1.39​

 

[Dayts]

Why is Shai Bolton worth pick 7 alone, let alone pick 7 and pick 16 plus 1 million dollars a year.

Here are his stats, and we saw in our game he inflated them by having his team mate mark the ball (do the hard work) and do a short pass to him in the square.

His goal assists is very low. Can someone please point me towards some stats that show his value? If he was not a premiership player, then no one would talk him as much as they do.

I was expecting them to be much better, but he is a clear level behind the best Rankine and Green.


All stats are for current year, order by goals + goals assists.

I would rather through some cash at Matthew Owies, than target Bolton. You would probably get him for 500 to 600k and a 2nd rounder.

Toby Green and Izak Rankine average 3 goals and goal assists a game.
Bolton, Weightman, Owies aver 2 goals and goal assists a game.
Jones and Ginnivan averages 1.6 goals and goal assists a game.
Schultz at 1.4 (in a bad year)

	KI	MK	HB	DI	GL	BH	HO	TK	RB	IF	CL	CG	FF	FA	BR	CP	UP	CM	MI	1%	BO	GA	G+GA
Toby Green	10.95	4.5	4.95	15.9	1.85	1.25		2.2	0.2	4.5	1.4	3.75	0.95	1.75		6.65	9.5	0.5	1.2	0.5	0.05	1.2	3.05​
Izak Rankine	11.79	3.36	6.93	18.71	1.93	0.64		3.43	0.79	4.07	3.79	3.71	0.79	1.29		10	9.57	0.14	1.14	1.64	1.5	1.07	3​
Coby Weightman	6.79	2.79	3.43	10.21	1.71	0.86		3.21	0.29	2.14	0.86	2.29	1.36	0.64		4.93	5.71	0.21	1.29	1.21		0.36	2.07​
Shai Bolton	10.2	3.75	7	17.2	1.5	1.2		2.55	0.4	3.95	3.35	3.85	0.6	0.85		7.3	10.45	0.45	1.5	1.5	2.15	0.55	2.05​
Matthew Owies	5.71	2.95	2.71	8.43	1.38	0.62		2.29	0.1	1.57	0.05	1.24	0.52	0.57		3.1	5.38	0.19	1.05	0.86	0.05	0.62	2​
Jack Ginnivan	10.53	4.21	6.26	16.79	1.21	1.21		2.63	0.16	3.16	1.16	3.21	1	0.89		5.32	11.42	0.05	1.32	0.79	0.11	0.42	1.63​
Darcy Jones	7.3	2.1	5.8	13.1	1	0.5		2.5	0.4	3	0.4	2	0.1	0.4		4.9	8.3		0.7	1	0.5	0.6	1.6​
Lachie Shultz	6.67	3.11	5.11	11.78	1.22	1.06		3.83	0.22	2	0.78	2.17	0.61	0.72		4	7.5	0.17	1.44	1.22		0.17	1.39​

Hard life for a small forward playing in terrible team. Gotta keep that in mind. Previous years suggests he’s one of the best at his craft.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Hard life for a small forward playing in terrible team. Gotta keep that in mind. Previous years suggests he’s one of the best at his craft.

Which year are you talking about?


His best year was 2022. Still only 2.5 goals and goal assist a game.

The crows are not flying this year, but Rankine finds away.

11.13​

3.17​

6.39​

17.52​

1.87​

1.78​

2.09​

0.22​

4.35​

3.61​

4.26​

0.70​

1.78​

0.55​

9.17​

8.87​

0.57​

1.43​

1.48​

1.65​

0.74​

 

[dont bowl there]

Why is Shai Bolton worth pick 7 alone, let alone pick 7 and pick 16 plus 1 million dollars a year.

Here are his stats, and we saw in our game he inflated them by having his team mate mark the ball (do the hard work) and do a short pass to him in the square.

His goal assists is very low. Can someone please point me towards some stats that show his value? If he was not a premiership player, then no one would talk him as much as they do.

I was expecting them to be much better, but he is a clear level behind the best Rankine and Green.


All stats are for current year, order by goals + goals assists.

I would rather through some cash at Matthew Owies, than target Bolton. You would probably get him for 500 to 600k and a 2nd rounder.

Toby Green and Izak Rankine average 3 goals and goal assists a game.
Bolton, Weightman, Owies aver 2 goals and goal assists a game.
Jones and Ginnivan averages 1.6 goals and goal assists a game.
Schultz at 1.4 (in a bad year)

	KI	MK	HB	DI	GL	BH	HO	TK	RB	IF	CL	CG	FF	FA	BR	CP	UP	CM	MI	1%	BO	GA	G+GA
Toby Green	10.95	4.5	4.95	15.9	1.85	1.25		2.2	0.2	4.5	1.4	3.75	0.95	1.75		6.65	9.5	0.5	1.2	0.5	0.05	1.2	3.05​
Izak Rankine	11.79	3.36	6.93	18.71	1.93	0.64		3.43	0.79	4.07	3.79	3.71	0.79	1.29		10	9.57	0.14	1.14	1.64	1.5	1.07	3​
Coby Weightman	6.79	2.79	3.43	10.21	1.71	0.86		3.21	0.29	2.14	0.86	2.29	1.36	0.64		4.93	5.71	0.21	1.29	1.21		0.36	2.07​
Shai Bolton	10.2	3.75	7	17.2	1.5	1.2		2.55	0.4	3.95	3.35	3.85	0.6	0.85		7.3	10.45	0.45	1.5	1.5	2.15	0.55	2.05​
Matthew Owies	5.71	2.95	2.71	8.43	1.38	0.62		2.29	0.1	1.57	0.05	1.24	0.52	0.57		3.1	5.38	0.19	1.05	0.86	0.05	0.62	2​
Jack Ginnivan	10.53	4.21	6.26	16.79	1.21	1.21		2.63	0.16	3.16	1.16	3.21	1	0.89		5.32	11.42	0.05	1.32	0.79	0.11	0.42	1.63​
Darcy Jones	7.3	2.1	5.8	13.1	1	0.5		2.5	0.4	3	0.4	2	0.1	0.4		4.9	8.3		0.7	1	0.5	0.6	1.6​
Lachie Shultz	6.67	3.11	5.11	11.78	1.22	1.06		3.83	0.22	2	0.78	2.17	0.61	0.72		4	7.5	0.17	1.44	1.22		0.17	1.39​

Because we are desperate for some forward half class from a small forward. Below are his goals scoredin the last 4 seasons:

2021: 23
2022: 43
2023: 31
2024: 30

Sam Switkowski:
2021: 9
2022: 11
2023: 16
2024: 10

Our window to win a flag is open and if we can bring in an elite goal kicking small forward you just get it done.

 

[dont bowl there]

Which year are you talking about?


His best year was 2022. Still only 2.5 goals and goal assist a game.

The crows are not flying this year, but Rankine finds away.

11.13​

3.17​

6.39​

17.52​

1.87​

1.78​

2.09​

0.22​

4.35​

3.61​

4.26​

0.70​

1.78​

0.55​

9.17​

8.87​

0.57​

1.43​

1.48​

1.65​

0.74​

We can't get Rankine, that doesn't mean Bolton won't be a massive upgrade on our current small forwards.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Because we are desperate for some forward half class from a small forward. Below are his goals scoredin the last 4 seasons:

2021: 23
2022: 43
2023: 31
2024: 30

Sam Switkowski:
2021: 9
2022: 11
2023: 16
2024: 10

Our window to win a flag is open and if we can bring in an elite goal kicking small forward you just get it done.

Being desperate does not mean you massively overpay.

This is old fremantle, where we would over pay for someone and then wonder why Lobb is playing for our side.

We need to be smart.

 

[Docker82]

Why is Shai Bolton worth pick 7 alone, let alone pick 7 and pick 16 plus 1 million dollars a year.

Here are his stats, and we saw in our game he inflated them by having his team mate mark the ball (do the hard work) and do a short pass to him in the square.

His goal assists is very low. Can someone please point me towards some stats that show his value? If he was not a premiership player, then no one would talk him as much as they do.

I was expecting them to be much better, but he is a clear level behind the best Rankine and Green.


All stats are for current year, order by goals + goals assists.

I would rather through some cash at Matthew Owies, than target Bolton. You would probably get him for 500 to 600k and a 2nd rounder.

Toby Green and Izak Rankine average 3 goals and goal assists a game.
Bolton, Weightman, Owies aver 2 goals and goal assists a game.
Jones and Ginnivan averages 1.6 goals and goal assists a game.
Schultz at 1.4 (in a bad year)

	KI	MK	HB	DI	GL	BH	HO	TK	RB	IF	CL	CG	FF	FA	BR	CP	UP	CM	MI	1%	BO	GA	G+GA
Toby Green	10.95	4.5	4.95	15.9	1.85	1.25		2.2	0.2	4.5	1.4	3.75	0.95	1.75		6.65	9.5	0.5	1.2	0.5	0.05	1.2	3.05​
Izak Rankine	11.79	3.36	6.93	18.71	1.93	0.64		3.43	0.79	4.07	3.79	3.71	0.79	1.29		10	9.57	0.14	1.14	1.64	1.5	1.07	3​
Coby Weightman	6.79	2.79	3.43	10.21	1.71	0.86		3.21	0.29	2.14	0.86	2.29	1.36	0.64		4.93	5.71	0.21	1.29	1.21		0.36	2.07​
Shai Bolton	10.2	3.75	7	17.2	1.5	1.2		2.55	0.4	3.95	3.35	3.85	0.6	0.85		7.3	10.45	0.45	1.5	1.5	2.15	0.55	2.05​
Matthew Owies	5.71	2.95	2.71	8.43	1.38	0.62		2.29	0.1	1.57	0.05	1.24	0.52	0.57		3.1	5.38	0.19	1.05	0.86	0.05	0.62	2​
Jack Ginnivan	10.53	4.21	6.26	16.79	1.21	1.21		2.63	0.16	3.16	1.16	3.21	1	0.89		5.32	11.42	0.05	1.32	0.79	0.11	0.42	1.63​
Darcy Jones	7.3	2.1	5.8	13.1	1	0.5		2.5	0.4	3	0.4	2	0.1	0.4		4.9	8.3		0.7	1	0.5	0.6	1.6​
Lachie Shultz	6.67	3.11	5.11	11.78	1.22	1.06		3.83	0.22	2	0.78	2.17	0.61	0.72		4	7.5	0.17	1.44	1.22		0.17	1.39​

There is a difference in value between contracted and uncontracted players.

Thing is though some fans seem to think the difference is far greater than it actually is. A contracted player is not worth double what an uncontracted player is.

The only difference between contracted and uncontracted players is which team has the right to pull out if one of the teams is unreasonable. It results in slightly but not massively different trade valuations. Most trades are within 10% of whatever fair is IMO no matter what a players contract status is.

 

[go_the_dockers]

We can't get Rankine, that doesn't mean Bolton will be a massive upgrade on our current small forwards.

Is Bolton worth pick 7 and 16, plus 1 million dollars plus.

Just because we need a small forward, is no reason to overpay for one.

 

[dont bowl there]

Being desperate does not mean you massively overpay.

This is old fremantle, where we would over pay for someone and then wonder why Lobb is playing for our side.

We need to be smart.

It depends what you think Bolton is worth, we have 3 first round picks this year so we are in a unique position to bring in an elite talent AND hit the draft with one or two of those picks.

 

[go_the_dockers]

There is a difference in value between contracted and uncontracted players.

Thing is though some fans seem to think the difference is far greater than it actually is. A contracted player is not worth double what an uncontracted player is.

The only difference between contracted and uncontracted players is which team has the right to pull out if one of the teams is unreasonable. It results in slightly but not massively different trade valuations. Most trades are within 10% of whatever fair is IMO no matter what a players contract status is.

Agree, which is why I don't want us to get him.

I think we will over pay massively (pick 7 and 16) and 1 million dollars

 

[dont bowl there]

Is Bolton worth pick 7 and 16, plus 1 million dollars plus.

Just because we need a small forward, is no reason to overpay for one.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

 

[go_the_dockers]

It depends what you think Bolton is worth, we have 3 first round picks this year so we are in a unique position to bring in an elite talent AND hit the draft with one or two of those picks.

What do you think he is worth?

What makes him better than Mitch Owies?

 

[go_the_dockers]

Where are you getting these numbers from?

This is what other people here are offering for him, plus his current contract value.

 

[Docker82]

Is Bolton worth pick 7 and 16, plus 1 million dollars plus.

Just because we need a small forward, is no reason to overpay for one.

Actually think a lesser player that is more your classic small forward would be a better fit for Freo. Fans won't be excited until it wins us more games.

Hope the club goes with the best for rather than the player that'll sell the most memberships.

 

[dont bowl there]

What do you think he is worth?

What makes him better than Mitch Owies?

Cmon, if you have watched them both play you would know which one out of Bolton and Owies is better. It's actually not even close.

I think he's worth the Pies pick so pick 7 and maybe the saints second rounder (pick 24?). Would be very happy to get it done and increase our chances of winning a flag.