List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Sizzlepack]

How do you arrive at Petty costing nothing but $$$$'s?..He's contracted for 2025.

You think the Dees will be that charitable?

I read the post as taking into account the fact that Petty is still contracted for next year.

 

[Vader]

I read the post as taking into account the fact that Petty is still contracted for next year.

I can see some logic in chasing Petty as a FA - not much, but some. Chasing him as a contracted player makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Sizzlepack]

Petty's performances this year have put paid to claims that he's capable of playing as a swingman. He's a quality defender, but we have an abundance of those already. As a forward, he's no better than Borlase was for us when we trialed him in the forward line before the bye (i.e. next to useless). I just don't see what he offers. Who does he replace in our current best 22? If we're going to be paying him enough to lure him away from Melbourne, then we need to be damn sure that he's going to substantially improve our team. In all likelihood the $$$ cost would mean paying him double Butts' salary - and he's definitely not twice the player that Butts is.

Luko strikes me as a soft player, who is likely to go to water in the pressure of finals. He's capable of playing good footy sometimes, but he can't be relied upon when the game gets close & physical. He is the antithesis of a finals player, though this has never been proven (given that GC have never played a final).

I agree that we have a shortage of tall forwards, with Walker (ret), Berg (UFA), Burgess (delist), and Gollant (delist) all possible departures this year (or next). That would leave us with Fogarty, Thilthorpe and Welsh (a 1st year draftee), which is a depth problem. Luko might help here, but Petty certainly isn't the answer.

I'm happy to grab Luko when he comes out of contract as a FA, but I wouldn't want to be giving anything away as trade collateral. I don't see any point in chasing Petty at all.

I don't really put much stock in "softness", but when it comes to Lukosius, I just don't see anything compelling about the actual player – not the #2 draft pick from SA – which would make him a good fit for our list.

He's a third tall/HFF. We already have that spot covered well enough with Cook, Fogarty and Welsh when he arrives.

If we're willing to wait until he's out of contract and he wants to come over, then great. Spending any draft capital on him this year or next would imo be disastrous.

ETA: the upcoming lack of tall depth you mentioned is what makes me keen to keep one of Burgess or Himmelberg, despite their flaws. If GWS are still interested in the latter, let's take the compo pick and keep Burgo as a break glass option.

 

[Mostyn]

Rubbish, the other way around is more likely....never, ever played like that coming through his 3 years at the Murray Bushrangers, the exact opposite.

There's literally been reports that the club has wanted him to improve his game by attacking and rebounding more, but you believe what you want.

 

[Mostyn]

That would be the dream but going to be tough to find a willing participant to trade out of this year's 'super draft', especially the 1st round. The reason WCE found it so hard to get Curtin last year even though they were offering what was going to be a top 3 and likely no. 1 pick - no one's prepared to trade out of the first round and that hope and excitement an early pick brings to the supporters especially - although I wish we'd done that deal with them, imagine having 2 x top 4/5 picks in this years draft.

Maybe we could deal with GC or Brisbane who have f/s, academy picks but their 1st intentions will be to get ahead of those picks rather than defer them to next year.

Lots of folks could be looking to trade out.

Freo, GCS, Brisbane and Carlton could all be looking to get out of the first round.

 

[Mutineer]

Hang on, so this years a super draft and nobody is willingly going to want to trade out of it but you then back that up with the example of West Coast offering a top 3, possibly pick 1 for this draft last year and had no takers

In-form Dog eyes extension, Dee in talks, Levi test case looms

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

​

FUTURE TRADING WATCH​

CLUBS are expected to try to trade next year's first-round picks into this year's draft as recruiters grow more enamoured with the class of 2024.

Although there is no consensus on pick No.1 in this year's draft pool like Harley Reid last year, the depth of quality in the top 30 picks has clubs considering attempting moves to try to trade into this year's group using their picks in next year's pool.

The ability to trade two years in advance with draft selections, which is expected to be formally added to this year's exchange period in coming weeks, will also give clubs another chip to try and break into the top-end of the 2024 group.

DRAFT HUB Click here for the latest draft news

The largely strong run of games in the Marsh Under-18 Championships and even group of prospects has scouts happy with the best 30 players available and depth compared to some recent seasons.

Josh Smillie and Finn O'Sullivan are still considered the most likely candidates for the No.1 pick, but the likes of Luke Trainor, Sam Lalor, Murphy Reid, Jagga Smith, Sid Draper, Bo Allan and Taj Hotton are also viewed as the top-10 contenders as well as Brisbane father-son Levi Ashcroft and Gold Coast Academy's Leo Lombard.

Tall prospects Jack and Matt Whitlock, Jobe Shanahan, Alixzander Tauru, Noah Mraz and Harry Armstrong are all also seen as potential later first-round selections. – Callum Twomey

 

[Crow till I die]

In-form Dog eyes extension, Dee in talks, Levi test case looms

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

​

FUTURE TRADING WATCH​

CLUBS are expected to try to trade next year's first-round picks into this year's draft as recruiters grow more enamoured with the class of 2024.

Although there is no consensus on pick No.1 in this year's draft pool like Harley Reid last year, the depth of quality in the top 30 picks has clubs considering attempting moves to try to trade into this year's group using their picks in next year's pool.

The ability to trade two years in advance with draft selections, which is expected to be formally added to this year's exchange period in coming weeks, will also give clubs another chip to try and break into the top-end of the 2024 group.

DRAFT HUB Click here for the latest draft news

The largely strong run of games in the Marsh Under-18 Championships and even group of prospects has scouts happy with the best 30 players available and depth compared to some recent seasons.

Josh Smillie and Finn O'Sullivan are still considered the most likely candidates for the No.1 pick, but the likes of Luke Trainor, Sam Lalor, Murphy Reid, Jagga Smith, Sid Draper, Bo Allan and Taj Hotton are also viewed as the top-10 contenders as well as Brisbane father-son Levi Ashcroft and Gold Coast Academy's Leo Lombard.

Tall prospects Jack and Matt Whitlock, Jobe Shanahan, Alixzander Tauru, Noah Mraz and Harry Armstrong are all also seen as potential later first-round selections. – Callum Twomey

As usual, we are going to have to compete with a swag of clubs for the extra pick for a mid in a year where we absolutely could use 2 top 10 mids coming in. BUT, we also have a fairly good recent record of pick trades so there is hope we might engineer something. But also, imagine instead of that, the club offering up our pick 4 or 5 for Petty and a 2nd rounder...the sound of club memberships being cut up will be heard from O'Sullivans Beach to Gawler.

 

[baldandbroke]

How do you arrive at Petty costing nothing but $$$$'s?..He's contracted for 2025.

You think the Dees will be that charitable?

Sorry - my mistake, thought he was a RFA this year. In that case, wait a year - agreed that I would not want to pay any amount of decent picks for a swingman like Petty. He would be an upgrade on the likes of Himmelberg or Burgess, but the cost changes the equation.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I can see some logic in chasing Petty as a FA - not much, but some. Chasing him as a contracted player makes no sense whatsoever.

I think its weighed up with what it would cost us to get him now and what we can get in the draft with that pick or picks.

But this is something that can be overlooked. What if we opt out for trading for him this year, we tell his manager to come to us in FA, he gets frustrated with us and a good year with Melbourne has him sign another contract?

I know the temptation is to always chase something for nothing. But we need strong tall players now. Our stocks of tall players is pretty low. All got to be weighed up. If he is too expensive well FA it would have to be.

 

[dogs105]

We could get Frampton back

Mods! MODS!!

We have a troll here.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

In-form Dog eyes extension, Dee in talks, Levi test case looms

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

​

FUTURE TRADING WATCH​

CLUBS are expected to try to trade next year's first-round picks into this year's draft as recruiters grow more enamoured with the class of 2024.

Although there is no consensus on pick No.1 in this year's draft pool like Harley Reid last year, the depth of quality in the top 30 picks has clubs considering attempting moves to try to trade into this year's group using their picks in next year's pool.

The ability to trade two years in advance with draft selections, which is expected to be formally added to this year's exchange period in coming weeks, will also give clubs another chip to try and break into the top-end of the 2024 group.

DRAFT HUB Click here for the latest draft news

The largely strong run of games in the Marsh Under-18 Championships and even group of prospects has scouts happy with the best 30 players available and depth compared to some recent seasons.

Josh Smillie and Finn O'Sullivan are still considered the most likely candidates for the No.1 pick, but the likes of Luke Trainor, Sam Lalor, Murphy Reid, Jagga Smith, Sid Draper, Bo Allan and Taj Hotton are also viewed as the top-10 contenders as well as Brisbane father-son Levi Ashcroft and Gold Coast Academy's Leo Lombard.

Tall prospects Jack and Matt Whitlock, Jobe Shanahan, Alixzander Tauru, Noah Mraz and Harry Armstrong are all also seen as potential later first-round selections. – Callum Twomey

Of all the recent years, this definitely looks the best year to capitalise on a low ladder finish.

Looks talent galore in the draft and we really should be looking to try and get as many first round picks as possible

 

[Mutineer]

Of all the recent years, this definitely looks the best year to capitalise on a low ladder finish.

Looks talent galore in the draft and we really should be looking to try and get as many first round picks as possible

Finding the takers might be a very big problem especially picks in the top 10 or 12 picks.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

Finding the takers might be a very big problem especially picks in the top 10 or 12 picks.

Would love to get 2 of Draper, Smith, Lalor, O Sullivan, Reid, Hotton, Moraes....

 

[Crow till I die]

Finding the takers might be a very big problem especially picks in the top 10 or 12 picks.

I know that some people say trading in our F1 is taboo, but IF Collingwood are trying to get both Keane and Berry (as a poster dropped a rumor tonight on our board about), then its not out of the realms we could get their F1 and maybe a 2nd this year for the pair of them..we should be pushing for that.

If we really rate the mids in the top 10, then offer up our F1 and the Collingwood F1 for a top 10 pick - that might be a tough one to knock back if you are a club in that range. Yes I know that is a heavy price BUT if we get that extra top 10 rated mid that comes in for next year, I'd do it as we need the quality coming in now if they say its a strong draft.

Edit. Put it this way, if we could potentially turn our F1 and Keane into say a Lalor - would you do that?

 

[Sizzlepack]

I know that some people say trading in our F1 is taboo, but IF Collingwood are trying to get both Keane and Berry (as a poster dropped a rumor tonight on our board about), then its not out of the realms we could get their F1 and maybe a 2nd this year for the pair of them..we should be pushing for that.

If we really rate the mids in the top 10, then offer up our F1 and the Collingwood F1 for a top 10 pick - that might be a tough one to knock back if you are a club in that range. Yes I know that is a heavy price BUT if we get that extra top 10 rated mid that comes in for next year, I'd do it as we need the quality coming in now if they say its a strong draft.

Edit. Put it this way, if we could potentially turn our F1 and Keane into say a Lalor - would you do that?

Yeah, I think I'm on board with this. Nail that and somehow cobble together the points for Welsh and we'd look in pretty good shape. The worry is that we almost certainly miss out on drafting a ruck in this scenario. And Dyson Sharp, but I'd largely given up on that anyway.

 

[FR0GGY]

I know that some people say trading in our F1 is taboo, but IF Collingwood are trying to get both Keane and Berry (as a poster dropped a rumor tonight on our board about), then its not out of the realms we could get their F1 and maybe a 2nd this year for the pair of them..we should be pushing for that.

If we really rate the mids in the top 10, then offer up our F1 and the Collingwood F1 for a top 10 pick - that might be a tough one to knock back if you are a club in that range. Yes I know that is a heavy price BUT if we get that extra top 10 rated mid that comes in for next year, I'd do it as we need the quality coming in now if they say its a strong draft.

Edit. Put it this way, if we could potentially turn our F1 and Keane into say a Lalor - would you do that?

They don’t have a first apparently

 

[Crow till I die]

They don’t have a first apparently

Collingwoods F1 is the go I would think and hope we try for

 

[Mutineer]

Collingwoods F1 is the go I would think and hope we try for

Collingwood's 1st pick is tied to Hawthorn's 2nd rounder?

 

[FR0GGY]

Collingwood's 1st pick is tied to Hawthorn's 2nd rounder?

Future 1st I think he’s meaning

 

[spenze]

I spoke briefly to Silvers on Sunday. He is a good guy and I rate him highly. I promised him another email as he knows me as 'the email guy who pointed out inequitable draw stuff to the AFL'. I am OK with that label lol. The following just sent to Silvers, Nicks and Reid. Will see what the response is


Hi Gents

In summary, a 7 minute ish read with hopefully well considered constructive views and how to best ‘sell’ future prospects to long suffering crows fans (and I don’t say this lightly) to ensure ongoing hope and support for the club.

Firstly, I hope things are well for you all personally with a no-doubt challenging year professionally. Nice seeing Tim again briefly at the pre-match and fans do appreciate leadership in challenging times. I understand its not easy but is certainly appreciated for Adam, Jack and then Tim speaking to your passionate QLD supporter group.

Firstly, the following is purely from a passionate fan (from the first trial game in Feb 1991) who is hoping and wishing for the best going forward and hopefully providing some insight from long term supporters/members. We all understand its been a difficult year – the ‘non-linear’ year that often comes along in our situation (but admittedly normally after a higher base level of success beforehand). These are my hopefully well considered thoughts after months of thought and gaining information from others who are seemingly able to glean information from Crows insiders (players or their partners etc). There are forums focussed on footy chat you would be aware of (inc the sometimes toxic BigFooty with a core demographic of 18-60 year olds) where the Crows are the clear number one ranking have 20% higher posting levels . 4m posts by many thousand supporters in recent years inc many by long term professionals, corporates and posters who seemingly have some form of inside connection to the club) than even compared to behemoths like Pies, Blues, Dons and Tigers. In summary, we have a massive supporter base out there, perhaps somewhat latent, but feel its important to understand core themes and opinions.

Acknowledgment / maintaining Hope

Clearly its been a difficult year for everyone that hasn’t met anyone’s expectations. Performance is worse than last year after a difficult first month with a game style change. Some key player injuries and continuing close losses with a number of players regressing – but its not all bad. Players are still playing for Nicksy (from my humble outside perspective), we are consistently around the mark and only 2 real poor losses (Hawks and Tigers in my view). But we need a few more core talented elite players – whether that’s TT, Rachele, Curtin and others (Pedlar/Murray/Worrell?) or future draft picks/trades and less injuries.

But I do feel publicly owning this to relate to fans that are starting to feel disenchanted is important. I can honestly say many long term supporters are for the first time reconsidering memberships (many premium) and/or corporate dollars spent going forward. The economy is tough. Discretionary expenditure is already down and likely further pressures going forward. But to acknowledge we are confident it’s a non-liner year in our trajectory. This can happen but next year therefore becomes particularly important with a material bounce needed (11-13 wins). Crows fans (members/supporters) have had a relatively successful 30+ years since inception with only 4 periods previously of 2 years of non-finals plus one 1 period of 3 years of non-finals (1994-1996). We are now entering our 8th year (2025) of non-finals and bookmakers I have called don’t have us in the top 10 teams for a top 8 spot for 2025. Therefore, waiting possibly 9-10 years for a finals berth is unprecedented and I believe having empathy and thanking our very loyal supporters for hanging in there and keep showing up in great numbers overall.

Revenues / memberships / crowd numbers

I am fearful, and wanted to communicate, we may see a deterioration in this regard next year. Supporters need hope based on real action and for that to be fulfilled at some point soon. We are seemingly struggling to attract quality non SA talent to the club (which is the norm for both Power and us with I think only Ryder and Dixon even becoming AA after being traded to a SA club). It all comes down to success and this years regression will erode confidence. Our crowds have been excellent (until the last home game) and I feel its important for perhaps Tim or John Olsen to address this issue over coming months. But more is also needed – see next

Attracting inbound talent

I do rate Justin and his team highly. Our various pick swaps have been possibly league’s best (certainly top quartile performance) since their inception mid last decade and Rankine and Dawson are exceptional ins (our 2 best players - one for a bargain and one for fair value perhaps) in the last 3 years. But after missing Day, Oliver, Redman and (thankfully in hindsight) Petty last year I am fearful we will again miss a decent name target where all decent FA’s have signed and Perryman at 800k seems a ridiculous stretch but not sure if Cummin is an option?

I cant see how we go about attracting 2-3 additional absolute elite (normally top 5 type players) like Callaghan, Anderson or Philippou without offering 1.25m for 7/8 years and shaking the tree so hard that a couple of them demand to be traded (and also fully acknowledge the difficulties this creates when re-signing the current elite batch like Rankine who will then say pay me 1.5m+ on a relative basis). I just see the ‘SA factor’ as such an insurmountable structural disadvantage and I am genuinely not sure there are any rational responses to this issue besides over-paying (and the corresponding issues this creates) or drafting which will then take another few years. I hope you have more ideas than I do..

Clearly elite mids (this was acknowledged by Tim last year) and also a developing / back up ruck seem glaring list holes. Also, unless Pedlar returns to form (and stays focussed and fit/healthy in the off season..) another quality small forward is needed and perhaps the Powers NGA player before 40 is a goer.

I imagine we have an unprecedented war chest and after a number of low finishes and long term contracts likely pre-paid (Rankine, Dawson, Soli and Rachele) we may be struggling to meet the minimum 95% floor. Problem is we are in a high inflation environment and many other clubs seemingly in a similar position and understand/agree in not paying ridiculous overs in the current environment.

Current list

One of Mattys N huge ticks has seemingly been culture, players buying in and playing for him and player retention. Listening publicly inc todays radio interview.. (and some private comments received) Keane wants out back to MLB. Please do NOT ROLL OVER here. Pies MUST pay a F1 if they want him for their rapidly aging squad with the last chance of a flag with so many 30+ and in desperate need for a KPD. Very happy to keep this very talented lad but if our demands aren’t met as we need to ensure we play hard ball as so many clubs have towards us over the years. Otherwise, he stays on our list in 2025 and may change his mind (Keane and Butts as KPD, Worrell as 3rd tall also allows potential N Murray – as per junior years? - swing forward option in my view)

We seem to have many potential outs this year (possibly 8+) which I wont comment on but please prioritise playing both Taylor and Curtin in an appropriate position (most games) and Ryan / even perhaps Edwards for 2-3 games each by the end of the year. There are seemingly some obvious players that can be rested Smith (Ryan) and Murphy (Taylor – even if not exactly like for like).

We should be preparing the squad for a big tilt in 2025 and there’s nothing like a few games of experience and it gives hopes to fans to see glimpses of future talent. We also don’t want to ideally finish above Saints if they get a ridiculous tier 1 FA pick for Battle moving us back to pick 6 (before academy/FS picks)

Recruiting

Contentious, heavily scrutinised and in my humble view does need enhancing. A good first few years by Hamish (CC, Lever, Mc Govern, M Crouch) with then a poorish 5 ish years from 2015 (whether Pyke overruled Galluci over English as per Phil Bunn I will never fully know) to a seemingly well above average last few years of both first and second rounders (plus Murray, Hinge, Keane etc for free and Nank in the PSD). He needs to get the next couple of drafts right – we cant bugger up here as, in theory, only more successful clubs can generally take higher risk picks.

Coaching / Support for M Nicks

Balme effectively made a public plea for a role with us going forward. I don’t understand why this wouldn’t be accepted after initial reluctance to get Senior coaching support. Look at his history inc Tigers and Cats. I am not on a witch hunt but do question Adam Kellys elite footy acumen (relative to SANFL admin) before joining the club in a crucial role. I see Chris Davies every year pulling off (often, not always) remarkable trade deals and other benchmark clubs like Swans having Leon Cameron with 25-30 years elite experience in a similar role. I just feel we need as much elite support as possible around Matty Nicks. Besides Kelly is our development team as good as possible? TT (at least equal best) and Rachele both played their best ever game in their first games of AFL – that’s not normal.

My dream scenario – Balme (Head of Football ish type overseeing role), Brett Ratten (Footy Manager) and Rahilly back as Senior Assistant (after feedback and results from our previously elite forward line this year) . Sounds like Montgomery might be back also.

We need elite assistants here. We perhaps haven’t always had them in recent years.

This years schedule

You pushed after Keays-Gate and were rewarded commercially but its seemingly unlikely to be repeated next year. I would be asking for 3-4 winnable games (inc home game first round) instead early next year to allow the team to start in a positive manner which hasn’t been the case in recent years always playing catch up.

Crows jumpers /merchandise

Consensus is you have nailed this years offering, inc Indigenous Round and ANZAC Day, and hope you are happy with feedback and sales. Well done guys – looks great as a suite of products.

Guys, Crows are one of my greatest passions in life. As a Stockbroker, one of my key driving aspirations is developing a sustainable model delivering 30%+ returns each year that I can ultimately offer (after club sign off) to any player you wish to help with retention going forward (watch this space – actually getting close). I would do anything to help the club and I hope any information sent a couple of times per year is taken in absolute good faith as it is intended.

Thanks for reading and all the best.


Regards
119 others

Please tell me you didn’t send that?

 

[texanmike]

Please tell me you didn’t send that?

I think he made some good points, but very long winded. I highly doubt they'd read it anyway, we are such an arrogant football club.

 

[spenze]

I think he made some good points, but very long winded. I highly doubt they'd read it anyway, we are such an arrogant football club.

Seriously did you read the whole thing?

 

[texanmike]

Seriously did you read the whole thing?

What do you expect him to say or not to say? I say kudos to him/her, clearly a passionate fan and wants to vent their concerns to the club.

 

[mick500]

Please tell me you didn’t send that?

I'm sure they read as much of that as they would have if he had written it with chalk in his driveway. With rain coming in washing it away as he wrote it.

 

[spenze]

What do you expect him to say or not to say? I say kudos to him/her, clearly a passionate fan and wants to vent their concerns to the club.

Maybe not his “Nigerian Prince” scam level routine for new recruits would be a good start.