List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Soggy2112]

Don't discount Port taking him if we let him go. He can play and is quite solid as a defender. They are struggling down back and as a low cost option, its almost a no brainer for them to bring him and an added bonus in that he is the son of a former champion and is SA based already.

I want to hold onto him if we can.

I’m really not sure what you’re seeing with him. He’s a depth player at best.

 

[Bazz_27]

Who's better depth for their position - Strachan or Borlase?

 

[Mutineer]

Who's better depth foe their position - Strachan or Borlase?

That's a tough one...LOL

 

[jackster83]

Who's better depth foe their position - Strachan or Borlase?

Borlase.

Strachan should have been delisted two years ago.

 

[Soggy2112]

Who's better depth foe their position - Strachan or Borlase?

Depends on if we keep Keane or not.

 

[Crow till I die]

I’m really not sure what you’re seeing with him. He’s a depth player at best.

He would be depth, but dependable depth as a defender. Why would we want rid when he would be on a low contract and he has shown he is capable when he comes in?

 

[cleanhands]

He would be depth, but dependable depth as a defender. Why would we want rid when he would be on a low contract and he has shown he is capable when he comes in?

He’s also showed continued improvement, it’s a keep

 

[Sizzlepack]

His lack of speed is the biggest cap on his potential, but I think Borlase is a pretty damn good depth guy and I'd be happy for us to give him a two-year deal. No one's arguing he's a better player than Keane, but the point is that losing Keane, if it happens, will net us some draft capital.

 

[Mutineer]

He would be depth, but dependable depth as a defender. Why would we want rid when he would be on a low contract and he has shown he is capable when he comes in?

But why wouldn't we draft a youngster like say swingman James Barrat who can be way more than a depth option and keep Keane?

 

[Crow till I die]

But why wouldn't we draft a youngster like say swingman James Barrat who can be way more than a depth option and keep Keane?

I was assuming Keane was going to leave..thats the word going around?

 

[Bob Neil]

- Laird or Crouch being traded makes our already incredibly young list profile even younger.

That wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

- It would be between Keane or Borlase in terms of who is traded, because it's 3rd talls where we have a surplus

My view is that all of those guys (Murray, Butts, Keane, Borlase and Worrell (at a pinch)) are in the category of KPDs and so for the purposes of assessing our depth chart and working out who may be tradeable are somewhat interchangeable. With that premise, I then feel that both Murray & Butts are 1st talls (can play on oppo biggest KPF), Keane and Borlase are 2nd talls as distinct from Worrell who is your classic 3rd tall. I would accept that Keane can possibly play either role. My reason for grouping Keane and Butts is that I think they're both AFL first 22 quality (and Borlase isn't) and hence have higher value.

- Unlikely to be any takers for Jones/Mchenry IMO.

Wouldn't disagree but would still be asking the question.

- Smith, Strachan, Schoenberg are no chance to be delisted

I've said what I think we should do but I can accept that in each case they're probably 50/50 at best to actually be delisted.

 

[rabidcrow]

This looks remarkably like the conversation that I had with one of my brothers this morning.

The only other name to consider is Keane. If he really is leaving for Collingwood, do we trade this year for greater return, or hold until 2025 and try to convince him to stay? Keane this year should be worth at least a good second rounder. Collingwood can't trade the second they hold, but their future first with our second going back would be nice.

Why can’t they trade the second they hold?

They can trade all of their picks in the draft if they want


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[Vader]

Why can’t they trade the second they hold?

Agreed. Teams can't trade future 2nds if they don't have a future 1st, but all bets are off when they're no longer "future" picks.

They can trade all of their picks in the draft if they want

Not really... Teams could trade out of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds - but they'd still have picks in the 6th, 7th & 8th rounds. Teams still need to make a minimum of 3x ND selections, though rookie upgrades count towards the total.

 

[Mostyn]

Choosing to spend significant salary cap on a ruck instead of a midfielder would be foolish.

Where's the free agent midfielder we can get?

I don't care that much about English, but he is virtually an additional midfielder for the side, and you don't often get the chance for AA level talent as a free agent.

 

[Mostyn]

Insane that Keane is worth (we hope) pick 30 and Battle is worth pick 5

Let's wait and see if that happens.

They're projecting 50 players on a $1m a year next year, and you need your salary to be in the top 44 to get band 1.

I still don't see how Zurhaar or Battle get it.

 

[hugecannon]

2nd rounders for Keane, Butts and Laird???

even though they ain't my favorite players but they are all contracted, with Keane and Butts demanding late first round at least.
Laird is interesting in terms of value.... he is a really good HBF in similarity of Caleb Daniel though with less foot skills....

Smith is still good depth option even though he may not be best 22 so no point in delisting and making our list even younger and les experienced.

Himmelberg is definitely gone as UFA.

delisting for this year would be (realistically)
Himmelberg
Parnell
McHenry
Gollant
bond

trade (possibility)
scholl
berry
keane

retained
cook
borlase
hamill
walker ... maybe

TBH, Butts would be a much better fit for Collingwood than Keane.

Butts showing his ability to defend one on one against KPF is much better than Keane’s IMO. It would also allow Moore to zone off more readily as well, whereas Moore and Keane are too similar

 

[Crow till I die]

TBH, Butts would be a much better fit for Collingwood than Keane.

Butts showing his ability to defend one on one against KPF is much better than Keane’s IMO. It would also allow Moore to zone off more readily as well, whereas Moore and Keane are too similar

Yeah...but thats their problem if they target keane

 

[Mutineer]

Yeah...but thats their problem if they target keane

Don't think there's any "IF"about it.

 

[cleanhands]

Yeah...but thats their problem if they target keane

Billy and Keane

 

[WeeBlake]

Let's wait and see if that happens.

They're projecting 50 players on a $1m a year next year, and you need your salary to be in the top 44 to get band 1.

I still don't see how Zurhaar or Battle get it.

You just know the AFL is gonna give the Saints a lolly

 

[Soggy2112]

Where's the free agent midfielder we can get?

I don't care that much about English, but he is virtually an additional midfielder for the side, and you don't often get the chance for AA level talent as a free agent.

Say we take him just because he’s the best available player, then in the coming years players like Powell, Phillipou or NWM are considering a move home. Will we have the cash available to get them over the line if we’ve spent big on a position you don’t need to?

Having an elite ruck is not a pre-requisite to winning a flag.

Our strategy should be to invest in some young rucks we can get cheaply, and if none of them come on and it becomes a pressing issue, do what thr Bombers, Swans or Blues did and get a guy like Grundy, Goldy or Pittonet as those types are often available relatively cheaply.

 

[DJ75]

We don't trade Keane unless we are bringing back in an experienced player.

We must increase our depth not reduce it.

We hold the cards as he is contracted.

I like Keane and love the attacking kicking he does (really the only defender we have who can do it), but we have plenty of depth, so I'm happy to trade him out.
Butts
Murray,
Worrell
Borlase

plenty of depth. Could add in a fringe/depth key defender via draft or trade

Doesn't matter if we would or not. He's contracted, and doesn't want to go anywhere.

Might change his mind when he’s told we are going to play the next gen and he will be playing SANFL

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think it's time to be aggressive with our list management on all fronts - who we delist, who we trade out and who we trade in. Here's some of my initial thoughts:

• Trade Out
  • One of Laird or Crouch - gotta be aggressive on this - I know they're both senior and probably don't want to go but we only need one of them [at most] and they're more valuable to another club right now. Even if it's only second rounder back I think it's prudent to move one on.
  • One of Keane or Butts - see above. They're both AFL quality defenders and KPDs have been a pretty valuable commodity of late. Keane is the obvious one if Collingwood and he are interested in reconnecting and you'd think a good second round should be achievable.
  • Himmelberg - bleeding obvious and presumably GWS will pick him up as a UFA and we'll just take whatever comp we get for him. Let's see if Toby Murray can develop and become solid backup (or better) for TT.
  • We should be shopping McHenry to see if there are any possible takers (unlikely) but if not then he's a straight depth-only and delist at end of contract player.
  • It's a pity that the Tassie side is not coming in next year as I think this would be the perfect time to cash in our chips on Chayce Jones. He's shown AFL qualities in different positions but never performed consistently at a high level and now I think a few others (Taylor, Dowling) have gone past him. If I thought he had reasonable trade value he'd be another that I'd be promoting the value of a new start to.
• Trade In:
  • The emergence of Rankine as a genuine forward-mid has highlighted the need for us to recruit a dangerous pure small forward. Collingwood did it perfectly getting Bobby Hill out of GWS when they did and we need to find a way to do the same.
  • We need to find a promising project ruck in that 20-24 age bracket that is ready for more opportunity and at least has the potential to get to AFL-grade quality.
  • I think the horse has bolted in terms of our ability to recruit a genuine A-grade mid but the crying need we have shouldn't be forgotten. It's a long shot but I hope we went hard at someone like Bailey Smith & LDU who bring the run and dash that we desperately need.
• Delist
  • Smith - putting aside his contract status I think it's obvious that the game has now gone past him and he's taking up games in a position at HBF that should be critical as either the launching pad for most of us rebound attacks or as the entry point for talented new players to get into the 22 and learn their craft (hello Dan Curtin!). At best should be delisted; at worst pure SANFL depth.
  • With Welsh (presumably) joining the squad we only need to keep one of Gollant and Burgess. Burgess would be my preference to delist assuming he's out of contract at the end of this year.
  • Strachan - he's served a purpose over a few years as our insurance policy but I think we've emphatically seen in two games this year that he can't get to AFL level and we're better served by going for a project ruckman who at least has the possibility of becoming a genuine AFL level player.
  • Schoenberg - I think he's been given enough opportunities and I just don't think he makes it as a first-choice midfielder and I don't think he has enough other tricks to play a different role (high half forward, winger, rebound defender). I'd rather delist him and roll the dice with a draft pick
  • Parnell - nuff said

You're hired

 

[rabidcrow]

Agreed. Teams can't trade future 2nds if they don't have a future 1st, but all bets are off when they're no longer "future" picks.

Not really... Teams could trade out of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds - but they'd still have picks in the 6th, 7th & 8th rounds. Teams still need to make a minimum of 3x ND selections, though rookie upgrades count towards the total.

True. I exaggerated for effect!


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[fuic08]

I keep hearing this but they've had numerous opportunities and have shown zero interest even when he was delisted last year. Don't see it personally because all evidence points to the opposite.

Most likely, uless they have changed their mind after seeing how bad Ratugolea is.