List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Crow till I die]

Will be a bad deal if we pay that much, we shouldn't have to, we hold all the cards. No doubt he improves us, but not by a lot and not when it matters. If we're using 25 to trade in a player, they should be peaking around 2027, not about to hang up the boots.

I'd rather use that pick on Rosas from GC - electric forward, structurally improves us as it frees up Izak and Josh for mainly midfield and they guy can kick goals (unlike Murphy).

 

[DJ75]

Can’t believe people suggesting that pick 25 is an overpaid for ANB

He has had 3 extremely consistent years
Great leadership
Brings bit of toughness around the footy
Plays that Matt Wright forward / mid role extremely well
Ultimate consistency out of him qtr by qtr, week by week

It’s a fair trade


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He's 29 years old, has the clubs blessing to leave and needs to go home for family reason, and has nominated one specific club.
That is almost always a recipe for a club the club to pay unders what the player would normally be worth.

Playing wise, yes, he's probably worth a second round pick. BUT, when you factor in the circumstances, we would be stupid to offer full value. No other club would.

 

[1970crow]

he isn't retiring where did that come from? im saying it wouldn't surprise me if we gave 25 given his numbers. hes 28 - has 4 years, premiership player, and gee if it guarantees murphy doesnt play i happy to give 25 which i still believe is way too far out to get dodson anyway or could get swallowed in a welsh bid once it slides.

look at the big picture. MURPHY = LOSING

He's 28 and 8 months old, he'll be 29 come round 1 2025. He's leaving for compassionate reasons, he has no burning desire to come to the AFC, outside of his pay cheque over his final contract. This is not similar to picking up Rankine and Dawson as 25 year olds with at least another big contract ahead of them. We should be fair and reasonable and offer a future 3rd and they should accept it and move on. Or he stays or goes to Port. Either way, our next flag tilt is unaffected, except that whatever else pick 25 can get us might have an impact. ANB will not.

And why are you infatuated with Welsh being selected way ahead of where he's expected to go? 12 months ago we were worried that we'd have to trade our first into the top few or out to not get swallowed by a Welsh bid. Have you not noticed what's going on with his rating over the last 12 months, it's plummeting.

 

[Crow till I die]

I wonder if we could trade 25 for Richmonds 29 & 39. They are going to end up with a bunch of higher picks after trading out players. 39 is likely to come in a bit on draft night as picks get burned for matching bids so it would end up being a mid 30's pick which is about right. Then we keep 29 to use at the draft and have 42 to help for matching a Welsh bid

 

[GreyCrow]

Can’t believe people suggesting that pick 25 is an overpaid for ANB

He has had 3 extremely consistent years
Great leadership
Brings bit of toughness around the footy
Plays that Matt Wright forward / mid role extremely well
Ultimate consistency out of him qtr by qtr, week by week

It’s a fair trade

And he walked out of Melbourne at 29

Balls in our court

 

[1970crow]

I've not followed him other than bf.

Given his lower than expected form, does he have worthwhile prospects to actually be worth drafting at all? Serious open question.

I watched a bit of his state game and apart from a couple of lead up marks, in general play he always just looked a step or 2 off it. People are making excuses for him sliding from potential top 10 to potential 30-50, slow burn as taller, puppy fat, not fit enough. We're not talking about grabbing a Keath out of cricket, this is a kid that has dedicated years to being an AFL footballer. Had all the advantages of a preseason and development at an AFL club and has been overtaken by scores of his peers.

If he wasn't Scott Welsh's lad and/or already at our club playing SANFL, I doubt any of the current excuses would be being made for him.

 

[1970crow]

Kane

He’s a quality player and leader, we are not blessed with quality players and leaders

Our inconsistency as a team mirrors our inconsistencies of our players, and ANB is ultra consistent which we need

Most importantly, this trade is not just about ANB role but also the impact it has on Izak’s role.

Playing Blmd down back, releases Maxy to be more of a weapon, now bringing in ANB releases Izak to be a genuine mid, it gives us from within the club the elite mid we need, then we add another with pick 4.


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It's a perfectly rational decision if you ignore the future and are just looking like a bit of improvement that gets us closer to the top 8 over the next 2 years. If you're trying to build a genuine multiyear top 4 contending side then you take 25 to the draft or use it on a player that will be hitting ANB's age in 2-4 years. It just depends on where you see a rebuild being finished. Is it competing regularly in top 4 or is it hanging around 6-10 and hoping for the odd coaching change spike every few years.

 

[TBM]

I wonder if we could trade 25 for Richmonds 29 & 39. They are going to end up with a bunch of higher picks after trading out players. 39 is likely to come in a bit on draft night as picks get burned for matching bids so it would end up being a mid 30's pick which is about right. Then we keep 29 to use at the draft and have 42 to help for matching a Welsh bid

Like many have said - this appears a great draft to load up in. There will definitely be good value in the 30s.

 

[Shifty Crow]

It's a perfectly rational decision if you ignore the future and are just looking like a bit of improvement that gets us closer to the top 8 over the next 2 years. If you're trying to build a genuine multiyear top 4 contending side then you take 25 to the draft or use it on a player that will be hitting ANB's age in 2-4 years. It just depends on where you see a rebuild being finished. Is it competing regularly in top 4 or is it hanging around 6-10 and hoping for the odd coaching change spike every few years.

But then you also need to trust our recruiters, let’s be honest our draft record is not great

There also gets a point that we can’t stay in rebuild mode, it’s been 7 years and we need to improve our list though all player acquisition options

There is no point bringing in young talent, if we don’t have good leaders to nurture the young talent on game day

We only have to look at our leadership group to see that we don’t have great on-field leaders, and a key reason for this we don’t have a strong playing group in the 25-30 age group because of previous bombed drafts - what gives us hope that the club will bring in a good player at pick 25?

ANB helps fill this gap created by previous poor drafts


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[plugger59]

Can’t believe people suggesting that pick 25 is an overpaid for ANB

He has had 3 extremely consistent years
Great leadership
Brings bit of toughness around the footy
Plays that Matt Wright forward / mid role extremely well
Ultimate consistency out of him qtr by qtr, week by week

It’s a fair trade


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maybe not a bad comparison but what about his non-statisticals of say, a Murphy? Could he aspire to or reach such levels?

 

[GreyCrow]

But then you also need to trust our recruiters, let’s be honest our draft record is not great

Thats fair but read on

There also gets a point that we can’t stay in rebuild mode, it’s been 7 years and we need to improve our list though all player acquisition options

There is no point bringing in young talent, if we don’t have good leaders to nurture the young talent on game day

Also fair but have you seen our leaders? WTF is Jackson doing if these are the leaders?

We only have to look at our leadership group to see that we don’t have great on-field leaders, and a key reason for this we don’t have a strong playing group in the 25-30 age group because of previous bombed drafts -

I have to stop you here. What you say is correct but it isnt because of the draft. Its because of a policy that saw these same useless 25-30 yr olds get games when a more astute coaching group would have moved them on

Who knows how many gems we have sitting in the SANFL? Who knew Hinge had leadership potential ( I certainly didnt)

I dont think anybody here doesnt want ANB for all the reasons you list - its the price

A walkaway who is 29 is not a 2nd round pick

 

[Nicks_out_now]

Let Himmelberg go to the Gold Coast, delist Gollant and chase delisted Fremantle forward Matt Taberner. If Darren Burgess is as good as he says, he can get Taberner body right.

Far more talent over Himmelberg and Gollant, just injury prone.

 

[Mutineer]

I watched a bit of his state game and apart from a couple of lead up marks, in general play he always just looked a step or 2 off it. People are making excuses for him sliding from potential top 10 to potential 30-50, slow burn as taller, puppy fat, not fit enough. We're not talking about grabbing a Keath out of cricket, this is a kid that has dedicated years to being an AFL footballer. Had all the advantages of a preseason and development at an AFL club and has been overtaken by scores of his peers.

If he wasn't Scott Welsh's lad and/or already at our club playing SANFL, I doubt any of the current excuses would be being made for him.

How many other U18's draftees played VFL/SANFL/WAFL all year?

Playing in a mostly underperforming Crows SANFL team made up most weeks of 6 - 8 ammo/country level footballers where the delivery was focused on Lachie Gollant/Toby Murray/Chris Burgess/Elliot Himmelberg when the ball actually got deep forward, Tyler played forward pocket and was basically playing the crumbing forward role.

Same with the SA U18's who were very poor and underperforming at the Nationals, again Tony Bamford and Brenton Phillips played Tyler mostly in the forward pocket with the focus on delivery to the two tall towers Charlie Nicholls and Tallan Rosenzweig.

From a draft point of view if Tyler really wanted to go high in the draft he'd have been far better served staying with WWT.

In his one game he played for WWT at U18's level in round 10 he booted 8.1 playing full forward when he was the go to man.

 

[Mutineer]

Let Himmelberg go to the Gold Coast, delist Gollant and chase delisted Fremantle forward Matt Taberner. If Darren Burgess is as good as he says, he can get Taberner body right.

Far more talent over Himmelberg and Gollant, just injury prone.

Matt Taberner a 31 year old that has been in and out of the Freo side his whole career.... what the hell are you smoking, it's some A grade gear.!!!

 

[Nicks_out_now]

Matt Taberner a 31 year old that has been in and out of the Freo side his whole career.... what the hell are you smoking, it's some A grade gear.!!!

Play the ball, not the man

I got it wrong with his age, I should have done my due diligence and checked. I was wrong, but you don't need to be a jerk with your response.

 

[Mutineer]

Play the ball, not the man

I got it wrong with his age, I should have done my due diligence and checked. I was wrong, but you don't need to be a jerk with your response.

Yep you should do the research

 

[Gtowncrow]

How many other U18's draftees played VFL/SANFL/WAFL all year?

Playing in a mostly underperforming Crows SANFL team made up most weeks of 6 - 8 ammo/country level footballers where the delivery was focused on Lachie Gollant/Toby Murray/Chris Burgess/Elliot Himmelberg when the ball actually got deep forward, Tyler played forward pocket and was basically playing the crumbing forward role.

Same with the SA U18's who were very poor and underperforming at the Nationals, again Tony Bamford and Brenton Phillips played Tyler mostly in the forward pocket with the focus on delivery to the two tall towers Charlie Nicholls and Tallan Rosenzweig.

From a draft point of view if Tyler really wanted to go high in the draft he'd have been far better served staying with WWT.

In his one game he played for WWT at U18's level in round 10 he booted 8.1 playing full forward when he was the go to man.

Fair summary.
In this case, at what number should the club not draft him. I.e top 10 or 20 or 30 etc? What is the tipping point of..."that's too much to pay"?

He's been talked about here for a long time now and another Fogarty level forward provides us with excellent flexibility in the future. But is he a likely Fogarty level player?

 

[Nicks_out_now]

Yep you should do the research

You should stop trying to be a hero.

 

[CrowHop]

Does that mean we get a favourable deal next time wirh the Cats for ripping us off for Dangerfield...

That deal still makes me spew


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[Mutineer]

Fair summary.
In this case, at what number should the club not draft him. I.e top 10 or 20 or 30 etc? What is the tipping point of..."that's too much to pay"?

He's been talked about here for a long time now and another Fogarty level forward provides us with excellent flexibility in the future. But is he a likely Fogarty level player?

I guess it depends what recruiters see his role as, I doubt he plays key forward more a medium forward role like a Jake Stringer. He should be a reasonably hard match up with his speed on the lead , strong hands and he's generally an elite shot at goal even from outside of fifty.

If he brings a bid I'd think it would be 40 onwards?

As yet we haven't nominated him as a F/S but i'd think they'll have a number they're prepared to pay so likely they'll inform Tyler and Scotty....obviously they would like to see him slip late/rookie.

 

[crow2crow]

Will be a bad deal if we pay that much, we shouldn't have to, we hold all the cards. No doubt he improves us, but not by a lot and not when it matters. If we're using 25 to trade in a player, they should be peaking around 2027, not about to hang up the boots.

thats fair. im trying to let you all down gently. you can all yell at me before it's announced then it will be a non event when it happens as you wasted your frustrations on me

 

[crow2crow]

That deal still makes me spew


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deal is an interesting term

daylight robbery is more whats in my mind

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

he isn't retiring where did that come from? im saying it wouldn't surprise me if we gave 25 given his numbers. hes 28 - has 4 years, premiership player, and gee if it guarantees murphy doesnt play i happy to give 25 which i still believe is way too far out to get dodson anyway or could get swallowed in a welsh bid once it slides.

look at the big picture. MURPHY = LOSING

Pedlar or literally anyone should replace Murphy.

His selection is on Nicks not the squad.

 

[Golumless]

Let Himmelberg go to the Gold Coast, delist Gollant and chase delisted Fremantle forward Matt Taberner. If Darren Burgess is as good as he says, he can get Taberner body right.

Far more talent over Himmelberg and Gollant, just injury prone.

Why?

No doubt Taberner has some value as a 2nd or 3rd KPF to someone who needs a body who'll compete for a year or two, but we're already coming into 2025 with Thilthorpe, Fogarty and Walker with TMurray, Welsh and whoever is remaining from H'berg, Gollant and Burgess as depth.

When it comes to tall forwards, we're pretty flushed.

 

[1970crow]

But then you also need to trust our recruiters, let’s be honest our draft record is not great

There also gets a point that we can’t stay in rebuild mode, it’s been 7 years and we need to improve our list though all player acquisition options

There is no point bringing in young talent, if we don’t have good leaders to nurture the young talent on game day

We only have to look at our leadership group to see that we don’t have great on-field leaders, and a key reason for this we don’t have a strong playing group in the 25-30 age group because of previous bombed drafts - what gives us hope that the club will bring in a good player at pick 25?

ANB helps fill this gap created by previous poor drafts


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Nobody is saying he’s not worthy of being recruited, but what you just described is the dictionary definition of throwing good money after bad. Us having burnt picks in the past makes it even more important to not overpay going forward.

With respect to leadership, we’ve had Tex and Sloane throughout our entire rebuild. It’s that strong that we’ve got about 10 worthy in our leadership group plus Tex and Sloane and Laird. If leadership is a problem it’s a club cultural issue and ANB isn’t going to change it.