List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading

[Mutineer]

A hypothetical.
Let's say that West Coast were very keen to draft Curtin and were willing to offer their future first round pick. Let's also say that we were interested in both Curtin and the West Coast pick, but not knowing where that pick would eventuate, we decided to draft the player and wait to see where that pick would be.
Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that we have a tentative agreement with West Coast to trade Curtin for their first this year - provided it was within a certain set of picks (say top 4)?

It would give us a look at Curtin and also certainty over what the pick would be. It would also (possibly) explain our lack of desire to develop Curtin properly (or it could just be that Nicks is a flog).

In the end it would mean we trade Curtin for pick 3. We then hit the draft with picks 3 and 4 and get two goes at finding elite midfield talent.

Is it possible?

Possible - yes

Probable - no

 

[Draft Bored]

West Coast aren't going to trade pick 3 for a player that has been a disappointment at pick 8.

A disappointment?

Dude we play him for 8 minutes a game generally in the wrong position.

 

[1990crow]

Possible - yes

Probable - no

West Coast would need a sweetener now if it was true.
Like whatever we get for Berry.

 

[1990crow]

A disappointment?

Dude we play him for 8 minutes a game generally in the wrong position.

Yeah. Not Curtins fault

 

[Scorpus]

Yeah. Not Curtins fault

Whether it's Curtin's fault or the coach's fault, it's still true that Curtin has lost value this year

 

[DJ75]

Whether it's Curtin's fault or the coach's fault, it's still true that Curtin has lost value this year

I doubt it.
I suspect a club would look at him as a tall that will need a little time to fully emerge.
They will also see the joke that is our club and know they can develop him much better.

 

[DJ75]

Possible - yes

Probable - no

I tend to agree with both, but will say this - if it was to eventuate and we trade pick 3 for Curtin, I will be ok with it.
2 swings at a gun mid in a draft stacked with high potential mids is perfect. I have no doubt Curtin will be a special player, but also think we have no idea what to do with him.

 

[crows dude]

A hypothetical.
Let's say that West Coast were very keen to draft Curtin and were willing to offer their future first round pick. Let's also say that we were interested in both Curtin and the West Coast pick, but not knowing where that pick would eventuate, we decided to draft the player and wait to see where that pick would be.
Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that we have a tentative agreement with West Coast to trade Curtin for their first this year - provided it was within a certain set of picks (say top 4)?

It would give us a look at Curtin and also certainty over what the pick would be. It would also (possibly) explain our lack of desire to develop Curtin properly (or it could just be that Nicks is a flog).

In the end it would mean we trade Curtin for pick 3. We then hit the draft with picks 3 and 4 and get two goes at finding elite midfield talent.

Is it possible?

Did we learn nothing from the tippet SAGA?

 

[Bazz_27]

I doubt it.
I suspect a club would look at him as a tall that will need a little time to fully emerge.
They will also see the joke that is our club and know they can develop him much better.

How many players have left and been developed better elsewhere? Cause I'm struggling to think of any. If our development & coaching is the only thing holding them back then they would be up to standard literally anywhere else

 

[1990crow]

I tend to agree with both, but will say this - if it was to eventuate and we trade pick 3 for Curtin, I will be ok with it.
2 swings at a gun mid in a draft stacked with high potential mids is perfect. I have no doubt Curtin will be a special player, but also think we have no idea what to do with him.

Of course you'd be OK with it. Pick 3s don't grow on trees.
I agree Curtin could be elite, we just don't how to make that happen.

 

[DJ75]

Did we learn nothing from the tippet SAGA?

If we didn't put it in writing then maybe we have learnt.
Not sure it would be illegal anyway.

 

[DJ75]

How many players have left and been developed better elsewhere? Cause I'm struggling to think of any. If our development & coaching is the only thing holding them back then they would be up to standard literally anywhere else

Gunston?

 

[1990crow]

How many players have left and been developed better elsewhere? Cause I'm struggling to think of any. If our development & coaching is the only thing holding them back then they would be up to standard literally anywhere else

Charlie Cameron went from good player with a great 2017 finals to elite player through the seasons at Brisbane.

Stengle went from bit part player to elite small forward at Geelong.

We've also not developed players to the point where no other club wants to steal them.

 

[jackster83]

How many players have left and been developed better elsewhere? Cause I'm struggling to think of any. If our development & coaching is the only thing holding them back then they would be up to standard literally anywhere else

Stengle

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

I hope we dont go anywhere near Lukosious, personally feel that someone who is content wasting away on the Gold Coast doesnt have it to go to the next level.

Propbably sounds extremely harsh, but he just seems like someone who is happy at his level.

 

[1990crow]

I hope we dont go anywhere near Lukosious, personally feel that someone who is content wasting away on the Gold Coast doesnt have it to go to the next level.

Propbably sounds extremely harsh, but he just seems like someone who is happy at his level.

He doesn't like contact. Hard to make it at AFL level if you don't have the desire to get your hands dirty.

 

[Bazz_27]

Gunston?

Always going back to Melbourne, also 11 years ago.

Charlie Cameron went from good player with a great 2017 finals to elite player through the seasons at Brisbane.

Stengle went from bit part player to elite small forward at Geelong.

We've also not developed players to the point where no other club wants to steal them.

I'm not sure what we did wrong with his development? He is a better player sure, but also doesn't have eddie to contend with and played more games. But is a better player for sure

Stengle

Lol

 

[1990crow]

Always going back to Melbourne, also 11 years ago.

I'm not sure what we did wrong with his development? He is a better player sure, but also doesn't have eddie to contend with and played more games. But is a better player for sure

Lol

That's the question though isn't it. Why did Cameron and Stengle become vastly better players when they weren't with us.

Opportunity. And the other is probably backing and giving the young player confidence that we are all in on them because we think they're central to our long term goals.

We have the opposite philosophy. You get your chance when the older players can't do it anymore.

 

[Redline]

dont think this club needs anymore frustrating footballers like lukosius. he could be a star, but seems content with playing footy in second gear. doesnt seem to have the drive and certainly has no mongrel in him. unless we got him dirt cheap i wouldnt be interested.

I'm happy to overpay him just not give up much draft capital for him.

I don't think Gold Coast will do us any favours and offload him as a salary dump though. Part of the reason they had to overpay was due to our interest.

 

[Vader]

With Gunston & Cameron it's just a matter of organic growth, as they gained age/experience/maturity.

Stengle's original development was done by Richmond. There's no doubt whatsoever that Stengle is playing better football for Geelong than he did for either Richmond or Adelaide, so maybe there's an element of "better development" here. I'd also argue that he's able to play better because he's playing in a team with better systems ("a rising tide lifts all boats"), but that doesn't totally discount development as a factor.

 

[Bazz_27]

With Gunston & Cameron it's just a matter of organic growth, as they gained age/experience/maturity.

Stengle's original development was done by Richmond. There's no doubt whatsoever that Stengle is playing better football for Geelong than he did for either Richmond or Adelaide, so maybe there's an element of "better development" here. I'd also argue that he's able to play better because he's playing in a team with better systems ("a rising tide lifts all boats"), but that doesn't totally discount development as a factor.

Maybe the penny dropped with Stengle (maybe not last weekend though) too? Will he interested to see how he plays now with the comfort of a 5 year deal

 

[Mutineer]

That's the question though isn't it. Why did Cameron and Stengle become vastly better players when they weren't with us.

Opportunity. And the other is probably backing and giving the young player confidence that we are all in on them because we think they're central to our long term goals.

We have the opposite philosophy. You get your chance when the older players can't do it anymore.

Conversely you could also claim, Hinge, Keays, Jenkins, Jacobs etc improved at the Crows.

 

[1990crow]

Conversely you could also claim, Hinge, Keays, Jenkins, Jacobs etc improved at the Crows.

Jenkins and Jacobs was 12 years ago.
Hinge has developed well.
Keays not sure. He got recruited to us because of his forward form in the twos. We then made him into a decent mid who ultimately got found out, and now back into a forward.

 

[Billy Cart]

I tend to agree with both, but will say this - if it was to eventuate and we trade pick 3 for Curtin, I will be ok with it.
2 swings at a gun mid in a draft stacked with high potential mids is perfect. I have no doubt Curtin will be a special player, but also think we have no idea what to do with him.

The royal "we don't know what to do with him" is on the club. The supporters do.

 

[Mutineer]

Jenkins and Jacobs was 12 years ago.
Hinge has developed well.
Keays not sure. He got recruited to us because of his forward form in the twos. We then made him into a decent mid who ultimately got found out, and now back into a forward.

Gunston who's been mentioned here was 13 years ago and he hightailed it outta here at 20 years of age natural progression more than anything else there...it's not as though he wasn't showing great promise/potential in his 2nd year with us when he pulled the pin, nothing suggests he wouldn't have kept up the upward trend with the Crows.