List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[Disco Fox]

Might not be the most reliable source but they get it right mostly..

Chris Burgess of the Adelaide Crows Player Profile and AFL Stats

Chris Burgess of the Adelaide Crows profile and AFL statistics.

www.footywire.com

Chris Burgess​

#21 Adelaide Crows
Age: 28yr 9mth Games: 43 Born: November 26, 1995
Height: 194cm Weight: 97kg Position: Forward
Supercoach Price: $239,700 Supercoach Profile
AFL Fantasy Price: $360,000 AFL Fantasy Profile
Contract Status: Out of contract at the end of 2025 AFL Player Contracts

Adelaide Advertiser article covering the contract extensions this morning states that Burgess is in limbo along with Ned, Paddy etc.

 

[GameofSloanes]

That doesn't add up. We need to make a minimum of 3 ND selections (including rookie upgrades). Pick 4 + Welsh = 2 selections.

Conclusion: We're delisting a contracted player, or we're not getting all of ANB/Cumming/Luko, or both.

You know which of those options is most likely, when did we delist a contracted player ever? So ANB is our big fish this year, no other incoming imo

 

[Cantuseit]

Adelaide Advertiser article covering the contract extensions this morning states that Burgess is in limbo along with Ned, Paddy etc.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/adelaide-resigns-james-borlase-and-hugh-bond-as-2025-list-takes-shape/news-story/6f5dd75599d8ce776539b5e5c6e16e98

A number of Crows are still waiting on new deals, including Will Hamill, Lachlan Gollant, Ned McHenry, Paddy Parnell and Chris Burgess.

 

[Redline]

Sorry if already posted but at work and can't scroll through multiple pages

Who is left uncontracted?

McHenry
Gollant
Schoenberg
??

By my count
Himmelberg
Burgess ( we think)
Gollant
McHenry
Parnell
Hanmill
Sloane out but already replaced by Toby Murray

 

[Vader]

Wish I had that spreadsheet that was on here handy. Aren’t Hamill and Parnell both still rookies? So with Turray in and Borlase/Keane upgraded, we’d have space to drop two seniors?

Yes... if Borlase & Keane were to be upgraded. It would also reduce the number of senior list positions available by 2. There is no evidence to suggest that either Borlase or Keane will be upgraded this year.

Which would give us five senior vacancies if we delist McHenry, Himmelberg, and Gollant (one of which Borlase/Keane takes).

If McHenry, Himmelberg & Gollant are all delisted, with Sloane retired, then that makes 4 senior list vacancies. If we upgrade Borlase or Keane, it's 3; upgrade both, and we're down to 2.

... and that's before we start bringing in players via trade & free agency (e.g. ANB/Luko/Cumming).

The maths just doesn't add up. There's pretty much no way of bringing in external players AND upgrading the rookies.

 

[GameofSloanes]

So the list spots are once again going to be very tight and possibly make it difficult to get players in.

It's going to be a very disappointing off season isn't it.
We are going to go:
IN
Pick 4 or Luko (we are absolutely stupid enough to make that trade)
ANB
Welsh

and that's it.

God I hate Reid. God I hate Roo. God I hate the shitshow at this club.

Yes I'm going full Lindy very early.

Borlase was pretty close to our best player when Hawthorn destroyed us at the G.

Unless we are trading contracted players out, I fear you are right. I'd love to know what the list mgt team have seen that makes them think the list we have needs no improvement. At all
Or the signings today are evidence we tried to get players like Luko, Cumming, Rosas etc and have failed. Again. So there are no other players to get.

 

[FR0GGY]

Why all the hate for Reid? I thought he was just the negotiator. And he's pretty good at that. Isn't he just following instructions of the list management team?

Who else do you blame for the state of the list than the list manager?

 

[Vader]

You know which of those options is most likely, when did we delist a contracted player ever? So ANB is our big fish this year, no other incoming imo

We have delisted a contracted player in the past - but it was a very long time ago. Thomas Lee was delisted after only 1 year on the list... but that was 15 years ago.

I'd say there's a high probability that Burgess will be delisted. His salary wouldn't be big enough to cause us TPP problems, and all indications are that we won't have enough list positions available if he doesn't go. Right now, his future is hanging in the balance, depending on how many trades & free agents the club is able to land.

 

[skam85]

If we move one player from the senior to rookie list, we will have spots for:

Neal-Bullen, Pick 4, Cumming, Lukosius, Welsh

But nothing else

and yet still a massive upgrade on last year's haul

 

[crow2crow]

Thinking more. I think we are getting luko. Its to do with list shape.

Three taller forward types out:
Gollant
Burgess
Himmelberg

Same "list shape" spots for Ins:
Welsh
Luko
T. Murray (mid year 2024)

 

[skam85]

I still feel there will be someone contracted asking for a trade.

 

[crow2crow]

I still feel there will be someone contracted asking for a trade.

Well for me that could be Butts if they signed Borlase. I cant think of anyone else. And dont give me Rachele...

 

[FR0GGY]

Well for me that could be Butts if they signed Borlase. I cant think of anyone else. And dont give me Rachele...

Rob

 

[Crows I Am]

Borlase re-signing makes me think we have heard from one of the potential incoming trades that they will not be coming to us.

Seems odd that we would sign him now and not wait until after trade week, we are limiting our options with who we could bring in now with limited spots available.

 

[crow2crow]

Rob

I wont cry if its ROB

 

[Danger in Texas]

I wont cry if its ROB

Trading out ROB would be moot, as we’d need to bring in a best 22 ruck to fill the gap he’d leave

I’d hope it’d be someone like Jones looking for more opportunity

 

[crow2crow]

Trading out ROB would be moot, as we’d need to bring in a best 22 ruck to fill the gap he’d leave

I’d hope it’d be someone like Jones looking for more opportunity

i would move on schoenberg before jones personally

 

[WaynesWorld19]

At some point this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's harder to break into a consistent top 4 side, which is at least in part a top 4 side because players coming into the side are ready-made (having given extra time to develop in the seconds).

I doubt rocket18 will understand this .....he's too quick to fly off the handle, to have given the practice any thought

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Was footywire not the site that previously had Burgess OOC this year? Have they changed their minds or is this a different site?

I remember at the time of Burgess signing to the Crows, it was two years ....isn't 2 years the standard main list Contract minimum ?

 

[El Doederino]

Rob

This year proved that ROB is the player we could least afford to lose

 

[knobby]

We have 38 on main list, 5 Cat A Rookies (Borlase, Hamill, Keane, T Murray, Parnell) 1 Cat B rookie (Gallagher)

Players without a contract for 2025
Sloane (retired anyway)
McHenry
Gollant
Himmelberg
Hamill
Parnell

We can have a total list size of 44 (38,4,2 or 37,5,2 or 36,6,2) and we have to bring in 3 draft picks (less one for rookie upgrade).

I think the writing is on the wall for McHenry, Gollant, Parnell + Sloane retired. Neal-Bullen in, so we would be 36,4,1
Himmelberg likely trade (or FA/delist), Hamill maybe delisted as well 35,3,1

3 draft picks (lets assume one is Keane upgraded) - 38, 2, 1

Cumming and Lukoscius in? - 40,2,1

Surely two of Burgess/Smith/Milera/Strachan maybe even Cook/Jones/Schoenberg - get moved to rookie list - 38, 4, 1

What I dont know is with today's announcement for Borlase, does he have to be upgraded ??

Players out of contract 2025 - I'm only going by Footywire
Brodie Smith

33

Brodie Smith

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

500.1

5star

D

17.1

4star

K

12.6

5star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

438.9

5star

D

17.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.6

5star

- retire
Chris Burgess

21

Chris Burgess

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.2

2star

K

3.9

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.4

3star

- delist
Darcy Fogarty

32

Darcy Fogarty

Age

25

Ht

194cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.5

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.7

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.0

4star

- extend
Harry Schoenberg - likely delist, depends on his 2025
Karl Gallagher - not sure - free hit, unless other Cat B rookies come along
Kieran Strachan - likely delist
Lachlan Murphy

4

Lachlan Murphy

Age

25

Ht

174cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

2.8

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.6

5star

G

1.0

4star

- please delist
Luke Nankervis - extend
Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

29

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

- ?? one more
Nick Murray - extend
Reilly O'Brien

43

Reilly O'brien

Age

29

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.4

4star

K

5.9

2star

HB

8.5

5star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

23.8

5star

D

14.4

3star

K

5.9

2star

HB

8.5

4star

CL

1.6

4star

HO

23.8

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

24.8

5star

- ?? extend
Taylor Walker

13

Taylor Walker

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.7

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

- retire
Toby Murray - extend
Wayne Milera

30

Wayne Milera

Age

27

Ht

184cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.9

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

265.3

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

3.5

3star

T

1.0

2star

MG

282.0

4star

D

11.4

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.4

4star

MG

182.0

3star

- depend on his 2025
Zac Taylor - extend

 

[FR0GGY]

This year proved that ROB is the player we could least afford to lose

Nah, ruckmen don’t matter remember

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Ask 100 people, and you'd probably have 80 say "4 is enough" and 20 say "we need Borlase as a 5th KPD for depth". You & Reid are in the 20, the BF sheeple are in the 80. Not quite sure where I stand myself.

As an example, this year we were scratching around for coverage KPP .....Worrell, Murray, and Butts all out

I'll be amazed if Borlaise makes it, for all the reasons Mutineer outlined, slow, and really bad turning circle ....Myself, I'd prefer to trade in a player that can Ruck & play KPD ....would Frampton have been a better hold in that regard than Borlaise

I suspect no to the above, as COLL offered real opportunities to play AFL

Interesting that HAW have 4 Rucks on their list .....FREO I think are similar .....if we lose ROB and Himmelberg, we're dead in the water next year

 

[Vader]

I remember at the time of Burgess signing to the Crows, it was two years ....isn't 2 years the standard main list Contract minimum ?

There's no set minimum when trading for players... but few players would transplant themselves to a different state without the security of a 2-year (minimum) contract.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

There's no set minimum when trading for players... but few players would transplant themselves to a different state without the security of a 2-year (minimum) contract.

Could be wrong, but I thought the main differential between the Rookie List & Main List these days, is 12 months versus a standard 2 year Contract .....3 years for 1st round Draftees ??