List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[crow2crow]

Rowey said this morning that Ned maybe to the rookie list, what an idiotic move that would be

he said it last night too butvthat would be really dumb
clearly nix favorite

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

They can't have much room.

Their best players are in peak salary years, and they've been paying big to bring players there.

Port have plenty of room, but not as much as us as we have oodles

Both were only of a handful of clubs not to build EB increases into player contracts like most clubs.

This is very beneficial when there has now been a huge cap increase.

 

[1970crow]

You may well be right mate. Any inside word or gut feel?

The reality is Power do NEED him more as a forward (esp as we have Welsh incoming) but this comes down to Reid to do the deal. Issue is not wanting to overpay too much on Luko both $$ and draft capital

Surely we don't make long term list decisions based on a player we're likely to get between 30 and 40?

 

[1970crow]

we are getting cummings dont worry about that one

luko my interpretation is
1. he doesnt want to leave and hence does not nominate anything
2. GC want him off the books but want a first round pick
3. neither SA club wants/has it to give but are ok to swallow the money
4. some vic clubs have better trade capital which suits GC but jack wont go - doesnt stop GC shopping him to melbourne clubs to pressure the SA clubs

there is no reason for him to wait for port to be out to nominate. if he was leaving port then yes but not this way around.

So if Luko has no reason to not nominate, why not Cumming too?

 

[1970crow]

Taryn Thomas worth a rookie spot if he is cleared to play AFL?

Done some dick things. People can change.

If he's cleared, absolutely. But it'd have to be a tight leash and not cost us anything if he breaches and is sacked.

 

[Soggy2112]

I get the Ferrari analogy but let me suggest that

IF.... TT is first ruck this year.

THEN... Our CBA and stoppage scenarios will be dramatically improved immediately. He adds so much more than just the tap out.

This is true. But having a 60-80 goal a season key forward is still more important.

We know we can still throw him in the ruck for 10 minutes if necessary.

 

[119others]

Surely we don't make long term list decisions based on a player we're likely to get between 30 and 40?

sorry mate not sure I understand. Who can we get for 30-40? I assume you mean ANB not Luko

EDIT rereading previous posts I think you mean Luko? If so, I think its less than 1% chance we get him for a pick later than 30. At best a F2 (which obv is uncertain where that lands)

 

[Soggy2112]

Taryn Thomas worth a rookie spot if he is cleared to play AFL?

Done some dick things. People can change.

As a league and as a club we need to be better than this.

 

[Hodgy]

Everytime i hear Thilthorpe to be lead ruck, i just think of someone using a Ferrari as a dodgem car...why on earth would you want to trash a very valuable asset like that?

I feel exactly the same but reversed. Why would you waste a match winner as a key forward when they could be in the middle influencing the game for its entirety. Melbourne and Collingwood have just shown that you can win flags without key forwards, they generally average 2 goals a game max. In the modern system based game they are very easily replaced.

 

[Mutineer]

If he's cleared, absolutely. But it'd have to be a tight leash and not cost us anything if he breaches and is sacked.

You're not serious, the fact that teams that showed even a passing interest quickly backed out should tell you he's damaged goods from an AFL point of view.

 

[119others]

As a league and as a club we need to be better than this.

not sure anyone touches him. already lots of negative publicity with members complaining at Essendon when Scott mentioned generic things like he could play again, get another chance etc.

In a couple of years, IF everything tones down and he has genuinely changed (which isnt overly likely IMO but some people do change esp as young men mature) then he probably will be given the all clear by the AFL to play again. Just not at this stage as too early for a repeat offender

 

[1970crow]

If a contracted Laird, ROB or Butts wanted out, what sort of pick ranges do you think they'd get?

25-35.

 

[119others]

I feel exactly the same but reversed. Why would you waste a match winner as a key forward when they could be in the middle influencing the game for its entirety. Melbourne and Collingwood have just shown that you can win flags without key forwards, they generally average 2 goals a game max. In the modern system based game they are very easily replaced.

Not sure of this logic. Pies also had a second rate ruckman last year who was 'adequate'. When is the last time a lead ruckman has been drafted at pick 2? Definitely most value is clunking marks and kicking 3-4 goals in big games

 

[1970crow]

So there’s a world where Port could land Luko, Perryman and Cumming

Are they like Carlton and Geelong in that they have endless cap space?

Where did you have Cats finishing this year?

 

[1970crow]

Cause the Lions gave him a 4 year deal for some reason. I don't think 'Berg is getting more than 2.

Length of the deal is a recent addition to the calculation, it wasn't when they took him.

 

[119others]

25-35.

Cant see any team paying that for Laird on 750k+

We would need to give him away for free (Bowes style) AND throw in a second rounder (or else pay 33-50% of his salary at another club). Laird says no anyway

Agree Butts could be a valuable trade chip getting something in the 20's next year if we went that way

 

[Crow till I die]

I feel exactly the same but reversed. Why would you waste a match winner as a key forward when they could be in the middle influencing the game for its entirety. Melbourne and Collingwood have just shown that you can win flags without key forwards, they generally average 2 goals a game max. In the modern system based game they are very easily replaced.

Then look at Geelong, have not had a dominant ruck for years but them key forwards seem to always help them home and here we are, another prelim final. I'd argue mobile key forwards that can dominate and kick goals are right up there with elite mids as the key players in a team

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Reckon what happens this pre-season is we get two of Cumming, Luko, and a pick in the 20’s

What would we prefer? For me it’d be Cumming and a 20’s pick, we can address multiple needs without giving up our F1

I agree with what you have to say. I’m leaning towards no with Luko, I don’t know how we would fit TT, Luko , Fog and Walker and eventually Welsh if he does reach his potential. But also the amount GC would want and the salary would be a large expense and he’s not worth that imo

If we had a pick in the 20’s come draft night, I would like for us to get a developing ruck or small forward

 

[Soggy2112]

not sure anyone touches him. already lots of negative publicity with members complaining at Essendon when Scott mentioned generic things like he could play again, get another chance etc.

In a couple of years, IF everything tones down and he has genuinely changed (which isnt overly likely IMO but some people do change esp as young men mature) then he probably will be given the all clear by the AFL to play again. Just not at this stage as too early for a repeat offender

He’d have to show significant evidence that he is working to make amends. Simply staying out of trouble for a year isn’t enough.

 

[119others]

They can't have much room.

Their best players are in peak salary years, and they've been paying big to bring players there.

lots of media this year saying they are one of the clubs along with us, Saints and Dons that have a large capacity still in the salary cap so not sure I can agree here

EDIT - their 2 highest paid players are likely to be JHF (contracted for another few years from memory) and Butters going forward. Butters will be getting a MASSIVE 1m+ / year offer to either stay in the swamps or else to move back to VIC when hitting FA status in a couple of years

 

[119others]

He’d have to show significant evidence that he is working to make amends. Simply staying out of trouble for a year isn’t enough.

yep agreed. and one year likely isnt enough either

 

[1970crow]

Rowey said this morning that Ned maybe to the rookie list, what an idiotic move that would be

Idiotic, but not unexpected.

 

[1970crow]

sorry mate not sure I understand. Who can we get for 30-40? I assume you mean ANB not Luko

EDIT rereading previous posts I think you mean Luko? If so, I think its less than 1% chance we get him for a pick later than 30. At best a F2 (which obv is uncertain where that lands)

You said power need him more especially because we have Welsh coming. Welsh is a 2nd to 3rd round talent, him incoming should have zero bearing on any other list decision.

 

[Cromulant]

Idiotic, but not unexpected.

Rowey misses the mark a fair bit, but he does have close ties with Ned.

 

[1970crow]

You're not serious, the fact that teams that showed even a passing interest quickly backed out should tell you he's damaged goods from an AFL point of view.

It's predicated upon the AFL re-registering him. If they do that, then people with more knowledge than me have assessed him as being able to return to the game. In that circumstance, for a rookie pick, I'd take him on. As long as a further transgression isn't going to tie us up in argument and cause us to negotiate a settlement in order to terminate him.