List Mgmt. 2024 List Mismanagement and Trading Part 2

[119others]

You said power need him more especially because we have Welsh coming. Welsh is a 2nd to 3rd round talent, him incoming should have zero bearing on any other list decision.

all good, yes welsh quite likely to fall in that range. was just on another page. not sure if welsh can play another position though besides the same as Luko - third tall forward or possibly roaming hff. your thoughts? either way, unfortunately seems like Welsh isnt going to be next big hope as a FS that we were all hoping for

 

[1970crow]

Cant see any team paying that for Laird on 750k+

We would need to give him away for free (Bowes style) AND throw in a second rounder (or else pay 33-50% of his salary at another club). Laird says no anyway

Agree Butts could be a valuable trade chip getting something in the 20's next year if we went that way

Think it's a given we'd have to pay some/all of Lairds salary to get that pick. I'd do it, we're not contending yet and multiple seconds can be bundled easier these days due to bidding.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Where did you have Cats finishing this year?

What’s going on here

 

[FR0GGY]

Not sure of this logic. Pies also had a second rate ruckman last year who was 'adequate'. When is the last time a lead ruckman has been drafted at pick 2? Definitely most value is clunking marks and kicking 3-4 goals in big games

Darcy Cameron is hardly second rate.

 

[Jarman3]

Darcy Cameron is hardly second rate.

Probably just seems that way to us because we've been spoiled by getting to watch ROB every week for so long.

 

[119others]

Darcy Cameron is hardly second rate.

I doubt he would be in the top 50% of paid ruckmen in the league? do you agree?

not getting into the semantics game again here but the SUBSTANCE of what I am saying is he is not a high profile leading ruckmen nor dominates many statistical categories for a ruckman (IIRC but very happy to stand corrected if this isnt correct). Many here, myself included, believe unless you have a truly exceptional ruckman (Gawn, Rehn) that its a relatively low value position - do you agree?

AFL: We've picked the league's 10 best ruckmen for 2024

They're the biggest and some of the toughest, but who's currently the best? We select the AFL's 10 best ruckmen for season 2024.

onlysports.com.au

 

[jackster83]

Then look at Geelong, have not had a dominant ruck for years but them key forwards seem to always help them home and here we are, another prelim final. I'd argue mobile key forwards that can dominate and kick goals are right up there with elite mids as the key players in a team

We definitely need another ruck though.

We're currently stuck with a 29 year old who has been dropped twice in the last two years and has failed to finish in the top 10 of the B&F and a backup ruck who should have been delisted three years ago.

 

[119others]

Rowey said this morning that Ned maybe to the rookie list, what an idiotic move that would be

the real concern - besides the stupidity of keeping Mc H - is that means we may have missed most of our trade targets if we fill up a place with Ned.

Only getting ANB is a clear FAIL - need at least 1 of of Luko, Cummin or someone else decent who isnt currently on our BF radar. But not bed wetting yet - still got another few weeks for things to work out

 

[Crow till I die]

We definitely need another ruck though.

We're currently stuck with a 29 year old who has been dropped twice in the last two years and has failed to finish in the top 10 of the B&F and a backup ruck who should have been delisted three years ago.

Oh i agree, but don't use thilthorpe there as he will get banged up and we lose our monster mobile pack marking key forward

 

[Hodgy]

Not sure of this logic. Pies also had a second rate ruckman last year who was 'adequate'. When is the last time a lead ruckman has been drafted at pick 2? Definitely most value is clunking marks and kicking 3-4 goals in big games

They are taken that high occasionally. Kreuzer and Nik Nat are recent examples, but in general clubs don’t draft ruckman that high because they are so hard to evaluate as juniors, and they take so long to develop. Look at English, who has taken 6 years and now is a genuine match winner for them. But footy history is littered with ruckman being dominant in successful teams going back to Dean Cox who is still one of my favorite players ever, to Jim Stynes, Max Gawn and Aaron Sandilands, who could all arguably be considered their teams most important player.

 

[Cromulant]

They are taken that high occasionally. Kreuzer and Nik Nat are recent examples, but in general clubs don’t draft ruckman that high because they are so hard to evaluate as juniors, and they take so long to develop. Look at English, who has taken 6 years and now is a genuine match winner for them. But footy history is littered with ruckman being dominant in successful teams going back to Dean Cox who is still one of my favorite players ever, to Jim Stynes, Max Gawn and Aaron Sandilands, who could all arguably be considered their teams most important player.

Go back further, Rehny was a superb ruck and crucial to our flag pushes. Even in 01 when Hawthorn made a prelim he was brilliant in the games he played

 

[1970crow]

What’s going on here

Just wondering. There’s lots of posters that love referring to cats paying players outside the cap but also looked at their list and predicted a bottom 6 finish. I look at their list and can’t see how they’re paying more than numerous other clubs.

 

[Mutineer]

I doubt he would be in the top 50% of paid ruckmen in the league? do you agree?

not getting into the semantics game again here but the SUBSTANCE of what I am saying is he is not a high profile leading ruckmen nor dominates many statistical categories for a ruckman (IIRC but very happy to stand corrected if this isnt correct). Many here, myself included, believe unless you have a truly exceptional ruckman (Gawn, Rehn) that its a relatively low value position - do you agree?

AFL: We've picked the league's 10 best ruckmen for 2024

They're the biggest and some of the toughest, but who's currently the best? We select the AFL's 10 best ruckmen for season 2024.

onlysports.com.au

Seriously that list is a joke...

It's one person's opinion a bloke called Ely Corliss who when you research him is "jack of all trades" when it comes to sport writing

Gawn is still the most dominant ruck in the game currently and Oscar McInerney at 10?

Ely Corliss | Only Sports

onlysports.com.au

 

[Fuddnuddler]

Look at English, who has taken 6 years and now is a genuine match winner for them.

And English would have been drafted by the Crows, had Ogilvie and Reid not been over-ruled by Pyke who wanted a speedy midfielder and we ended up with Gallucci.

 

[Redline]

lots of media this year saying they are one of the clubs along with us, Saints and Dons that have a large capacity still in the salary cap so not sure I can agree here

EDIT - their 2 highest paid players are likely to be JHF (contracted for another few years from memory) and Butters going forward. Butters will be getting a MASSIVE 1m+ / year offer to either stay in the swamps or else to move back to VIC when hitting FA status in a couple of years

Their list profile from a salary perspective would be fascinating

Probably not huge in the scheme of things but you always pay overs to bring someone in. Guys like Esava, Aliir and Zerk-Thatcher would be on more than you think. To a much lesser extent Finlayson, Burton, Soldo, Sweet and Rioli.

They would of had to match or go close to matching the big offers for Wines, Powell-Pepper and Georgiadis so my guess is they are on good contracts.

I think Butters will stay for now. Bergmann will go in 12 months.

On the flipside the advantage of recruiting local star players is you generally don't have to pay as much so JHF and Rozee won't be paid the same as the equals interstate. They would be saving alot there.

Guys like Boak and Dixon don't seem like types to have pushed for huge contracts where as we have probably overpaid guys like Smith, Laird, and others as they negotiated their contracts when we had cap space to burn.

Their list then has a heap of players playing for close to or at the minimum. They have alot of younger players or list cloggers.

So my guess is they save at the top and bottom end of the salary cap.

 

[FR0GGY]

I doubt he would be in the top 50% of paid ruckmen in the league? do you agree?

not getting into the semantics game again here but the SUBSTANCE of what I am saying is he is not a high profile leading ruckmen nor dominates many statistical categories for a ruckman (IIRC but very happy to stand corrected if this isnt correct). Many here, myself included, believe unless you have a truly exceptional ruckman (Gawn, Rehn) that its a relatively low value position - do you agree?

AFL: We've picked the league's 10 best ruckmen for 2024

They're the biggest and some of the toughest, but who's currently the best? We select the AFL's 10 best ruckmen for season 2024.

onlysports.com.au

Couldn’t really care what he’s paid, laird is our 1st or 2nd highest player.
You might mean 2nd tier, but to me 2nd rate is a derogatory term in the AFL sense.

 

[Cromulant]

Their list profile from a salary perspective would be fascinating

Probably not huge in the scheme of things but you always pay overs to bring someone in. Guys like Esava, Aliir and Zerk-Thatcher would be on more than you think. To a much lesser extent Finlayson, Burton, Soldo, Sweet and Rioli.

They would of had to match or go close to matching the big offers for Wines, Powell-Pepper and Georgiadis so my guess is they are on good contracts.

I think Butters will stay for now. Bergmann will go in 12 months.

On the flipside the advantage of recruiting local star players is you generally don't have to pay as much so JHF and Rozee won't be paid the same as the equals interstate. They would be saving alot there.

Guys like Boak and Dixon don't seem like types to have pushed for huge contracts where as we have probably overpaid guys like Smith, Laird, and others as they negotiated their contracts when we had cap space to burn.

Their list then has a heap of players playing for close to or at the minimum. They have alot of younger players or list cloggers.

So my guess is they save at the top and bottom end of the salary cap.

Dixon was on decent $$ when he first came over, this contract though would be AFL average you'd think

 

[FR0GGY]

Then look at Geelong, have not had a dominant ruck for years but them key forwards seem to always help them home and here we are, another prelim final. I'd argue mobile key forwards that can dominate and kick goals are right up there with elite mids as the key players in a team

Unless you have Gawn who is both a good ruck and around the ground you may aswell play someone that can play around the ground. Thats where it sucks with Rob, he’s an ok ruckman but completely useless anywhere else.

 

[Crow till I die]

Unless you have Gawn who is both a good ruck and around the ground you may aswell play someone that can play around the ground. Thats where it sucks with Rob, he’s an ok ruckman but completely useless anywhere else.

Then we would be better off getting harry boyd as that around the ground ruck who is like another midfielder. Don't wreck Thilthorpe there

 

[Cromulant]

Then we would be better off getting harry boyd as that around the ground ruck who is like another midfielder. Don't wreck Thilthorpe there

Riley is wasted deep forward, but he's also wasted as first ruck.

Its a conundrum.

 

[Scorpus]

Rowey said this morning that Ned maybe to the rookie list, what an idiotic move that would be

Can't see it happening. We don't have the list spots

 

[Crow till I die]

Riley is wasted deep forward, but he's also wasted as first ruck.

Its a conundrum.

I don't think he is wasted as a key forward. I would try and engineer a pagans paddock type play to use with him every now and again. He would be frightening to have to play 1 out inside 50

 

[GreyCrow]

Can't see it happening. We don't have the list spots

I think its a ' we like you we really like you but times are tough and if we have the space we will definitely rookie - but pack your shit up just in case '

 

[Sizzlepack]

Good lord, earnest discussion of Thilthorpe in ruck and Tarryn Thomas

26

Tarryn Thomas

Age

24

Ht

190cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

3.3

5star

CL

0.9

3star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.2

4star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.8

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

0.4

3star

within a million miles of the list. Trade week can't come fast enough.

 

[Cromulant]

I don't think he is wasted as a key forward. I would try and engineer a pagans paddock type play to use with him every now and again. He would be frightening to have to play 1 out inside 50

Thing is he's well known for his athleticism and tank. Playing him deep forward wastes that a bit.