Preview 2024 Rd 21 Carlton vs Collingwood Saturday 3rd August 7:30PM AEST @ MCG

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …



MILESTONE: Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

150 AFL Games

AFL team news: Martin returns for game 150

A milestone for a returning Blue among four changes to the Round 21 team.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[AceAndy]

Even though he is Collingwood he is an amazing player.

Proof you don't need leg speed when you see the game the way he does.

Credit where it's due (but it ain't easy)

He was an amazing player, probably gone on 2-3 seasons longer than he should have.

Glad he is still playing as he is way past it which is better for us.

 

[Crippa#9]

OK, lets avoid using emojis in this thread.

shit's broken.

 

[skadoosh]

OK, lets avoid using emojis in this thread.

shit's broken.

Seems Blue1980 is the only one with this issue.

 

[branedotorg]

Blue1980 I'm going to delete your posts - they're not rendering, please check your input language

 

[branedotorg]

Where on God's green earth did you form that opinion? Pendles is a champion person too. I'm genuinely curious if this is a vibe you just decided to extrapolate because he's collingwood or some actual event you experienced?

there's been some very average humans playing for collingwood over the years but the worst i've ever heard of pendlebury (and alex) is that they're a bit boring

 

[AceAndy]

there's been some very average humans playing for collingwood over the years but the worst i've ever heard of pendlebury (and alex) is that they're a bit boring

Alex who ?

 

[Arr0w]

Alex who ?

Wife

 

[windows1]

Yep Martin should be first out the door imo.

Club alluded to some injured players not working hard a while back. Not sure if he was one (they obvs didn’t specify).

Either way doubt he will take the size of cut they would want vs offers from WA.

 

[2centsworth]

Most of our teams problems on the field is between the ears. Being able to apply effort for 4 quarters has been an issue for a long time. Maybe more sports psychologists or another bonfire down at Curnow's farm?
Hopefully they find something against the filth this week.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Not confident, feel like we might get rolled in the last quarter.......................

 

[windows1]

Can somebody explain to me why Pittonet cant or isn’t ever there to mark a football?

He is 202cm and averages 1.4 marks a game (usually uncontested)… either his positioning is terrible due to bad coaching or he just doesn’t know how to go for a grab , and this is a massive hole in our game with TDK out.

Most teams rely on their ruck (eg Cameron Gawn Grundy list goes on) to take a link up mark on the wing . We really felt that missing with McKay out this week and Curnow having to go and take them (with no one to then kick it to in our forward 50)

Why is pitto not that guy? I don’t understand … he would be a pretty ok ruck if he could be this guy

He has no pace to get to contests and no agility once there.

 

[windows1]

Do we send Cincotta to Daicos or Bobby Hill again.

I think he goes to Hill again and Hewett gets Daicos.

Would like to see Young stay in to play on the resting Ruckman (Cox/Cameron) and Kemp to move forward.

Puke to that. George is way too slow.

 

[Coona Blues]

Have said it for some time now that I would rather see Kemp developed as a 3rd tall forward, but that should be at VFL first

He doesn't have the IQ for a backman, even though he played for most of his junior career.

As for calls to play him on a wing or through the middle, absolutely bizarre

Kemp is capable of playing in any third of the ground, but there are pros and cons for various roles.

Kemp is naturally talented and athletic. He is more instinctive than smart as a player. See ball get ball as opposed to adapting to structures. Very good one on one, PROVIDING, he is a physical match for an opponent. Has the pace and want to play a sweeper role and is a capable rebounder. The bloke has a great leap and can mark and spoil with the best of them, PROVIDING he gets a run at it. Suffers in body to body contests with larger and/or smarter opponents.

In the back half, he is best suited to a third tall, interceptor/sweeper role. Our shortage of bankable key defenders has caused our coaches to thrust Kemp in to the second key defender role, while he has not been developed physically for the role. A strong, athletic specimen he is, but does not have the physical size to mix it with most genuine key forwards. His role is clearly the McGovern role.

McGovern is gifted the third tall/interceptor, largely unaccountable rebounding role. His best is spectacular, but we are found out when he is needed to defend. In regard to “teaming with” Kemp, he does not provide much assistance, he is given licence to do his own thing. I am not saying Kemp should have Gov’s role, but, if they reversed roles, McGovern would be crucified more than Kempy gets, he does not have the discipline to play accountable. If Kemp was in the McGovern third tall role, I absolutely believe he would be more balanced, more defensive minded and able to adjust his game better than Gov. Kemp is absolutely suited to the third tall defender role, and would grow and prosper with that element of freedom that Mitch is afforded, while being more inclined to impact as a third defender more consistently.

I agree that Kemp could be an excellent third tall forward. I have my reservations how he would co-exist with Harry and Charlie. His see ball, get ball inclination is likely to create congestion. We need a smarter third tall who can both decoy and selectively present as a genuine option. I believe he would be better as a shock trooper or be added to the mix if we were missing one of H or Charles and perhaps playing our two rucks with TDK in the forward mix more.

I totally reject assertions that he would not be suited to the midfield or wing. See ball, get ball is absolutely the domain of a midfielder. Kemp has very quick hands and good peripheral vision. His “brain fades” down back are more for not having get out options presenting, it is a different story sharing the ball in traffic. He has the endurance to mix it in the middle for extended periods. He regularly works 13-14km in games and regularly plays 90% plus game time, and has at times played 100%.

The rejection of him as a wing option is ludicrous. Granted, he would need some schooling in keeping width and when to present forward or back. It is a different skill set to the smarts needed to a second guess an experienced forward and cover space than to read the direction of play and provide an outnumber. Acres is a modern wingman who evolved from 3rd tall back and forward and some time in the middle and pinch hitting ruckman to make the role his own. He didn’t have a “best position” until moved to a wing. St Kilda didn’t settle him there, they persisted with him playing the second ruck chop out as a fall back and he found himself in and out of the side for a while before being traded and making the wing his own at Freo. He again was sold short and they short changed his salary package under the premise they had developing kids who could shift in to the role.

Kemp is probably a little more athletic than Acres and while it has taken time, now has a similar endurance package, with the ability for multiple high paced efforts. We have the Campos coming, with Ollie and maybe Binns and Wilson as options going forward, but Kemp absolutely has the package to be quality wing option, able to assist strongly defensively as well as impacting forward as well or perhaps better than “the Sherriff” in time.

The drama is, we don’t have suitable key defenders, and our brain’s trust seems more interested in adding options midfield and forward than addressing our (quality) key position shortage.

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

 

[AB_Blue]

If Martin plays….

I would use Kemp as the intercept third tall and would give Gov Cowans role in defence (young CHB. Cowan to the get the vest or VFL)

If Martin doesn’t play

I would use Kemp (or Gov) forward


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Soapy V]

Kemp is capable of playing in any third of the ground, but there are pros and cons for various roles.

Kemp is naturally talented and athletic. He is more instinctive than smart as a player. See ball get ball as opposed to adapting to structures. Very good one on one, PROVIDING, he is a physical match for an opponent. Has the pace and want to play a sweeper role and is a capable rebounder. The bloke has a great leap and can mark and spoil with the best of them, PROVIDING he gets a run at it. Suffers in body to body contests with larger and/or smarter opponents.

In the back half, he is best suited to a third tall, interceptor/sweeper role. Our shortage of bankable key defenders has caused our coaches to thrust Kemp in to the second key defender role, while he has not been developed physically for the role. A strong, athletic specimen he is, but does not have the physical size to mix it with most genuine key forwards. His role is clearly the McGovern role.

McGovern is gifted the third tall/interceptor, largely unaccountable rebounding role. His best is spectacular, but we are found out when he is needed to defend. In regard to “teaming with” Kemp, he does not provide much assistance, he is given licence to do his own thing. I am not saying Kemp should have Gov’s role, but, if they reversed roles, McGovern would be crucified more than Kempy gets, he does not have the discipline to play accountable. If Kemp was in the McGovern third tall role, I absolutely believe he would be more balanced, more defensive minded and able to adjust his game better than Gov. Kemp is absolutely suited to the third tall defender role, and would grow and prosper with that element of freedom that Mitch is afforded, while being more inclined to impact as a third defender more consistently.

I agree that Kemp could be an excellent third tall forward. I have my reservations how he would co-exist with Harry and Charlie. His see ball, get ball inclination is likely to create congestion. We need a smarter third tall who can both decoy and selectively present as a genuine option. I believe he would be better as a shock trooper or be added to the mix if we were missing one of H or Charles and perhaps playing our two rucks with TDK in the forward mix more.

I totally reject assertions that he would not be suited to the midfield or wing. See ball, get ball is absolutely the domain of a midfielder. Kemp has very quick hands and good peripheral vision. His “brain fades” down back are more for not having get out options presenting, it is a different story sharing the ball in traffic. He has the endurance to mix it in the middle for extended periods. He regularly works 13-14km in games and regularly plays 90% plus game time, and has at times played 100%.

The rejection of him as a wing option is ludicrous. Granted, he would need some schooling in keeping width and when to present forward or back. It is a different skill set to the smarts needed to a second guess an experienced forward and cover space than to read the direction of play and provide an outnumber. Acres is a modern wingman who evolved from 3rd tall back and forward and some time in the middle and pinch hitting ruckman to make the role his own. He didn’t have a “best position” until moved to a wing. St Kilda didn’t settle him there, they persisted with him playing the second ruck chop out as a fall back and he found himself in and out of the side for a while before being traded and making the wing his own at Freo. He again was sold short and they short changed his salary package under the premise they had developing kids who could shift in to the role.

Kemp is probably a little more athletic than Acres and while it has taken time, now has a similar endurance package, with the ability for multiple high paced efforts. We have the Campos coming, with Ollie and maybe Binns and Wilson as options going forward, but Kemp absolutely has the package to be quality wing option, able to assist strongly defensively as well as impacting forward as well or perhaps better than “the Sherriff” in time.

The drama is, we don’t have suitable key defenders, and our brain’s trust seems more interested in adding options midfield and forward than addressing our (quality) key position shortage.

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

POTW

Well written, balanced and well explained

 

[Accidental genius]

Kemp is capable of playing in any third of the ground, but there are pros and cons for various roles.

Kemp is naturally talented and athletic. He is more instinctive than smart as a player. See ball get ball as opposed to adapting to structures. Very good one on one, PROVIDING, he is a physical match for an opponent. Has the pace and want to play a sweeper role and is a capable rebounder. The bloke has a great leap and can mark and spoil with the best of them, PROVIDING he gets a run at it. Suffers in body to body contests with larger and/or smarter opponents.

In the back half, he is best suited to a third tall, interceptor/sweeper role. Our shortage of bankable key defenders has caused our coaches to thrust Kemp in to the second key defender role, while he has not been developed physically for the role. A strong, athletic specimen he is, but does not have the physical size to mix it with most genuine key forwards. His role is clearly the McGovern role.

McGovern is gifted the third tall/interceptor, largely unaccountable rebounding role. His best is spectacular, but we are found out when he is needed to defend. In regard to “teaming with” Kemp, he does not provide much assistance, he is given licence to do his own thing. I am not saying Kemp should have Gov’s role, but, if they reversed roles, McGovern would be crucified more than Kempy gets, he does not have the discipline to play accountable. If Kemp was in the McGovern third tall role, I absolutely believe he would be more balanced, more defensive minded and able to adjust his game better than Gov. Kemp is absolutely suited to the third tall defender role, and would grow and prosper with that element of freedom that Mitch is afforded, while being more inclined to impact as a third defender more consistently.

I agree that Kemp could be an excellent third tall forward. I have my reservations how he would co-exist with Harry and Charlie. His see ball, get ball inclination is likely to create congestion. We need a smarter third tall who can both decoy and selectively present as a genuine option. I believe he would be better as a shock trooper or be added to the mix if we were missing one of H or Charles and perhaps playing our two rucks with TDK in the forward mix more.

I totally reject assertions that he would not be suited to the midfield or wing. See ball, get ball is absolutely the domain of a midfielder. Kemp has very quick hands and good peripheral vision. His “brain fades” down back are more for not having get out options presenting, it is a different story sharing the ball in traffic. He has the endurance to mix it in the middle for extended periods. He regularly works 13-14km in games and regularly plays 90% plus game time, and has at times played 100%.

The rejection of him as a wing option is ludicrous. Granted, he would need some schooling in keeping width and when to present forward or back. It is a different skill set to the smarts needed to a second guess an experienced forward and cover space than to read the direction of play and provide an outnumber. Acres is a modern wingman who evolved from 3rd tall back and forward and some time in the middle and pinch hitting ruckman to make the role his own. He didn’t have a “best position” until moved to a wing. St Kilda didn’t settle him there, they persisted with him playing the second ruck chop out as a fall back and he found himself in and out of the side for a while before being traded and making the wing his own at Freo. He again was sold short and they short changed his salary package under the premise they had developing kids who could shift in to the role.

Kemp is probably a little more athletic than Acres and while it has taken time, now has a similar endurance package, with the ability for multiple high paced efforts. We have the Campos coming, with Ollie and maybe Binns and Wilson as options going forward, but Kemp absolutely has the package to be quality wing option, able to assist strongly defensively as well as impacting forward as well or perhaps better than “the Sherriff” in time.

The drama is, we don’t have suitable key defenders, and our brain’s trust seems more interested in adding options midfield and forward than addressing our (quality) key position shortage.

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

Very wise well thought out post and right on point.

 

[Accidental genius]

POTW

Well written and well explained

You beat me to it

 

[jj1978]

Did we? Who were we missing?

From memory (could be wrong) I thought we started to get everyone back including Marchbank & Martin. Certainly weren't missing Doc & Jack and names like Hewett were flying

Yep, Ollie was playing a lot better (still being pushed around, but after his shoulder stint was a lot fresher with run), Dow was bloody useful when he played, Fish was handy experienced relief, Kemp was in better form as was fresh blood in Cinc and Boyd being played later in the season. TDK started coming into his own at the right time, Pitto and mids were in sync when he played, Walsh was not being slaughtered by the new HTB interpretation (see his first half of the season this year before the change), Cerra was in unreal form till his late injury.

Whether knowing we had to hunt for those last 10 games to make something of the season may have helped, plus a bit of luck in a few games (e.g. Port throwing it to rest players against their next week top of the table clash), Our fate being sealed in the final round so we could ease off without repercussions to be a bit fresher for our first final.

The one thing I'm clinging onto for the final four games is that with our final four challengers not being "easy beats" and our season is on life support we may revert out mindset to being the hunters.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Kemp is capable of playing in any third of the ground, but there are pros and cons for various roles.

Kemp is naturally talented and athletic. He is more instinctive than smart as a player. See ball get ball as opposed to adapting to structures. Very good one on one, PROVIDING, he is a physical match for an opponent. Has the pace and want to play a sweeper role and is a capable rebounder. The bloke has a great leap and can mark and spoil with the best of them, PROVIDING he gets a run at it. Suffers in body to body contests with larger and/or smarter opponents.

In the back half, he is best suited to a third tall, interceptor/sweeper role. Our shortage of bankable key defenders has caused our coaches to thrust Kemp in to the second key defender role, while he has not been developed physically for the role. A strong, athletic specimen he is, but does not have the physical size to mix it with most genuine key forwards. His role is clearly the McGovern role.

McGovern is gifted the third tall/interceptor, largely unaccountable rebounding role. His best is spectacular, but we are found out when he is needed to defend. In regard to “teaming with” Kemp, he does not provide much assistance, he is given licence to do his own thing. I am not saying Kemp should have Gov’s role, but, if they reversed roles, McGovern would be crucified more than Kempy gets, he does not have the discipline to play accountable. If Kemp was in the McGovern third tall role, I absolutely believe he would be more balanced, more defensive minded and able to adjust his game better than Gov. Kemp is absolutely suited to the third tall defender role, and would grow and prosper with that element of freedom that Mitch is afforded, while being more inclined to impact as a third defender more consistently.

I agree that Kemp could be an excellent third tall forward. I have my reservations how he would co-exist with Harry and Charlie. His see ball, get ball inclination is likely to create congestion. We need a smarter third tall who can both decoy and selectively present as a genuine option. I believe he would be better as a shock trooper or be added to the mix if we were missing one of H or Charles and perhaps playing our two rucks with TDK in the forward mix more.

I totally reject assertions that he would not be suited to the midfield or wing. See ball, get ball is absolutely the domain of a midfielder. Kemp has very quick hands and good peripheral vision. His “brain fades” down back are more for not having get out options presenting, it is a different story sharing the ball in traffic. He has the endurance to mix it in the middle for extended periods. He regularly works 13-14km in games and regularly plays 90% plus game time, and has at times played 100%.

The rejection of him as a wing option is ludicrous. Granted, he would need some schooling in keeping width and when to present forward or back. It is a different skill set to the smarts needed to a second guess an experienced forward and cover space than to read the direction of play and provide an outnumber. Acres is a modern wingman who evolved from 3rd tall back and forward and some time in the middle and pinch hitting ruckman to make the role his own. He didn’t have a “best position” until moved to a wing. St Kilda didn’t settle him there, they persisted with him playing the second ruck chop out as a fall back and he found himself in and out of the side for a while before being traded and making the wing his own at Freo. He again was sold short and they short changed his salary package under the premise they had developing kids who could shift in to the role.

Kemp is probably a little more athletic than Acres and while it has taken time, now has a similar endurance package, with the ability for multiple high paced efforts. We have the Campos coming, with Ollie and maybe Binns and Wilson as options going forward, but Kemp absolutely has the package to be quality wing option, able to assist strongly defensively as well as impacting forward as well or perhaps better than “the Sherriff” in time.

The drama is, we don’t have suitable key defenders, and our brain’s trust seems more interested in adding options midfield and forward than addressing our (quality) key position shortage.

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

I don't know where to start to acknowledge such a accurate post, but the simple fact you have highlighted McGovern's limitations, would do me. Thank you.

 

[Soapy V]

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

Never a truer statement made. I have had a concern with our development over the last decade or more. It has improved but still has a way to go IMO

It's also easy to find what is "wrong" with a player. Many coaches do it. I find the best learn how to make the most of their "weapons" as you say

 

[Arr0w]

Kemp is capable of playing in any third of the ground, but there are pros and cons for various roles.

He is capable, but that's different to effective

Kemp is naturally talented and athletic. He is more instinctive than smart as a player. See ball get ball as opposed to adapting to structures. Very good one on one, PROVIDING, he is a physical match for an opponent. Has the pace and want to play a sweeper role and is a capable rebounder. The bloke has a great leap and can mark and spoil with the best of them, PROVIDING he gets a run at it. Suffers in body to body contests with larger and/or smarter opponents.

He is better on instinct, hence why my stance is for him to plat forward as structure and cohesion is vital in the backline, less so as a forward

Physically he should be able to match up on most types, but he struggles to do so

In the back half, he is best suited to a third tall, interceptor/sweeper role. Our shortage of bankable key defenders has caused our coaches to thrust Kemp in to the second key defender role, while he has not been developed physically for the role. A strong, athletic specimen he is, but does not have the physical size to mix it with most genuine key forwards. His role is clearly the McGovern role.

He is bigger than many players in the league playing KPD, let's stop making excuses for him

McGovern role? Not even in the same postcode

McGovern is gifted the third tall/interceptor, largely unaccountable rebounding role. His best is spectacular, but we are found out when he is needed to defend. In regard to “teaming with” Kemp, he does not provide much assistance, he is given licence to do his own thing. I am not saying Kemp should have Gov’s role, but, if they reversed roles, McGovern would be crucified more than Kempy gets, he does not have the discipline to play accountable. If Kemp was in the McGovern third tall role, I absolutely believe he would be more balanced, more defensive minded and able to adjust his game better than Gov. Kemp is absolutely suited to the third tall defender role, and would grow and prosper with that element of freedom that Mitch is afforded, while being more inclined to impact as a third defender more consistently.

McGovern along with Weitering and Newman are our best readers of unfolding play, Kemp isn't in that league at the moment

I agree that Kemp could be an excellent third tall forward. I have my reservations how he would co-exist with Harry and Charlie. His see ball, get ball inclination is likely to create congestion. We need a smarter third tall who can both decoy and selectively present as a genuine option. I believe he would be better as a shock trooper or be added to the mix if we were missing one of H or Charles and perhaps playing our two rucks with TDK in the forward mix more.

All Kemp would have to do is be a lead up forward, in rotations with Harry and Charlie

I totally reject assertions that he would not be suited to the midfield or wing.

Reject it all you want, spent minimal time there as a junior and gets lost if he doesn't have his hands on the pill

See ball, get ball is absolutely the domain of a midfielder. Kemp has very quick hands and good peripheral vision. His “brain fades” down back are more for not having get out options presenting, it is a different story sharing the ball in traffic. He has the endurance to mix it in the middle for extended periods. He regularly works 13-14km in games and regularly plays 90% plus game time, and has at times played 100%.

Has a tank, but can't sustain the repeat runs, better suited to a burst forward leading player

The rejection of him as a wing option is ludicrous. Granted, he would need some schooling in keeping width and when to present forward or back. It is a different skill set to the smarts needed to a second guess an experienced forward and cover space than to read the direction of play and provide an outnumber. Acres is a modern wingman who evolved from 3rd tall back and forward and some time in the middle and pinch hitting ruckman to make the role his own. He didn’t have a “best position” until moved to a wing. St Kilda didn’t settle him there, they persisted with him playing the second ruck chop out as a fall back and he found himself in and out of the side for a while before being traded and making the wing his own at Freo. He again was sold short and they short changed his salary package under the premise they had developing kids who could shift in to the role.

I'm happy that he is trialled as a forward or wingman, but it should be at VFL level

Kemp is probably a little more athletic than Acres and while it has taken time, now has a similar endurance package, with the ability for multiple high paced efforts. We have the Campos coming, with Ollie and maybe Binns and Wilson as options going forward, but Kemp absolutely has the package to be quality wing option, able to assist strongly defensively as well as impacting forward as well or perhaps better than “the Sherriff” in time.

This seems to be covering the same ground earlier in your post

The drama is, we don’t have suitable key defenders, and our brain’s trust seems more interested in adding options midfield and forward than addressing our (quality) key position shortage.

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

Yes, we have flicked him forward and back, but is it that unusual? Plenty of players have been redeployed

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

Fact: The club is pissed that he doesn't remain in his lane. Flying for balls when he should be bodying an opponent. Taking off ball hunting when he should be zoning off

I'm not giving up on him, has rare attributes, but I believe they are best suited as a forward.

This, play him as a wing or mid is currently the stuff of unicorns, same with Dow as a HF, Stocker as a full time mid

Lastly, what is the go lately with the use of CAPITAL letters, do people think it carries more weight in a debate and or emphasise a greater knowledge of a subject matter?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Kemp is capable of playing in any third of the ground, but there are pros and cons for various roles.

Kemp is naturally talented and athletic. He is more instinctive than smart as a player. See ball get ball as opposed to adapting to structures. Very good one on one, PROVIDING, he is a physical match for an opponent. Has the pace and want to play a sweeper role and is a capable rebounder. The bloke has a great leap and can mark and spoil with the best of them, PROVIDING he gets a run at it. Suffers in body to body contests with larger and/or smarter opponents.

In the back half, he is best suited to a third tall, interceptor/sweeper role. Our shortage of bankable key defenders has caused our coaches to thrust Kemp in to the second key defender role, while he has not been developed physically for the role. A strong, athletic specimen he is, but does not have the physical size to mix it with most genuine key forwards. His role is clearly the McGovern role.

McGovern is gifted the third tall/interceptor, largely unaccountable rebounding role. His best is spectacular, but we are found out when he is needed to defend. In regard to “teaming with” Kemp, he does not provide much assistance, he is given licence to do his own thing. I am not saying Kemp should have Gov’s role, but, if they reversed roles, McGovern would be crucified more than Kempy gets, he does not have the discipline to play accountable. If Kemp was in the McGovern third tall role, I absolutely believe he would be more balanced, more defensive minded and able to adjust his game better than Gov. Kemp is absolutely suited to the third tall defender role, and would grow and prosper with that element of freedom that Mitch is afforded, while being more inclined to impact as a third defender more consistently.

I agree that Kemp could be an excellent third tall forward. I have my reservations how he would co-exist with Harry and Charlie. His see ball, get ball inclination is likely to create congestion. We need a smarter third tall who can both decoy and selectively present as a genuine option. I believe he would be better as a shock trooper or be added to the mix if we were missing one of H or Charles and perhaps playing our two rucks with TDK in the forward mix more.

I totally reject assertions that he would not be suited to the midfield or wing. See ball, get ball is absolutely the domain of a midfielder. Kemp has very quick hands and good peripheral vision. His “brain fades” down back are more for not having get out options presenting, it is a different story sharing the ball in traffic. He has the endurance to mix it in the middle for extended periods. He regularly works 13-14km in games and regularly plays 90% plus game time, and has at times played 100%.

The rejection of him as a wing option is ludicrous. Granted, he would need some schooling in keeping width and when to present forward or back. It is a different skill set to the smarts needed to a second guess an experienced forward and cover space than to read the direction of play and provide an outnumber. Acres is a modern wingman who evolved from 3rd tall back and forward and some time in the middle and pinch hitting ruckman to make the role his own. He didn’t have a “best position” until moved to a wing. St Kilda didn’t settle him there, they persisted with him playing the second ruck chop out as a fall back and he found himself in and out of the side for a while before being traded and making the wing his own at Freo. He again was sold short and they short changed his salary package under the premise they had developing kids who could shift in to the role.

Kemp is probably a little more athletic than Acres and while it has taken time, now has a similar endurance package, with the ability for multiple high paced efforts. We have the Campos coming, with Ollie and maybe Binns and Wilson as options going forward, but Kemp absolutely has the package to be quality wing option, able to assist strongly defensively as well as impacting forward as well or perhaps better than “the Sherriff” in time.

The drama is, we don’t have suitable key defenders, and our brain’s trust seems more interested in adding options midfield and forward than addressing our (quality) key position shortage.

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

Poty. You've been due a good one

 

[Opium]

Never a truer statement made. I have had a concern with our development over the last decade or more. It has improved but still has a way to go IMO

It's also easy to find what is "wrong" with a player. Many coaches do it. I find the best learn how to make the most of their "weapons" as you say

This is a fact im afraid. Our development and reserves need a major overhaul. Kemp was thrown forward and in defence this year. Same with Lemmey. Moved to defence for about a month and now forward again. Let these players develop in one position that gives them the best chance to succeed at AFL level.

 

[Arr0w]

Back to the game

Our pressure has been inconsistent for some time, this isn't talent based, it's full team buy in across all areas for longer

I think we look better when we play the game on merit, rather than a preplanned go quick or slow.

Don't allow the Pies to cause turnovers in our back half, control the ball with short hitups while still having some speed on the ball, allows us to step up better defensively

 

[Soapy V]

Kemp is capable of playing in any third of the ground, but there are pros and cons for various roles.

Kemp is naturally talented and athletic. He is more instinctive than smart as a player. See ball get ball as opposed to adapting to structures. Very good one on one, PROVIDING, he is a physical match for an opponent. Has the pace and want to play a sweeper role and is a capable rebounder. The bloke has a great leap and can mark and spoil with the best of them, PROVIDING he gets a run at it. Suffers in body to body contests with larger and/or smarter opponents.

In the back half, he is best suited to a third tall, interceptor/sweeper role. Our shortage of bankable key defenders has caused our coaches to thrust Kemp in to the second key defender role, while he has not been developed physically for the role. A strong, athletic specimen he is, but does not have the physical size to mix it with most genuine key forwards. His role is clearly the McGovern role.

McGovern is gifted the third tall/interceptor, largely unaccountable rebounding role. His best is spectacular, but we are found out when he is needed to defend. In regard to “teaming with” Kemp, he does not provide much assistance, he is given licence to do his own thing. I am not saying Kemp should have Gov’s role, but, if they reversed roles, McGovern would be crucified more than Kempy gets, he does not have the discipline to play accountable. If Kemp was in the McGovern third tall role, I absolutely believe he would be more balanced, more defensive minded and able to adjust his game better than Gov. Kemp is absolutely suited to the third tall defender role, and would grow and prosper with that element of freedom that Mitch is afforded, while being more inclined to impact as a third defender more consistently.

I agree that Kemp could be an excellent third tall forward. I have my reservations how he would co-exist with Harry and Charlie. His see ball, get ball inclination is likely to create congestion. We need a smarter third tall who can both decoy and selectively present as a genuine option. I believe he would be better as a shock trooper or be added to the mix if we were missing one of H or Charles and perhaps playing our two rucks with TDK in the forward mix more.

I totally reject assertions that he would not be suited to the midfield or wing. See ball, get ball is absolutely the domain of a midfielder. Kemp has very quick hands and good peripheral vision. His “brain fades” down back are more for not having get out options presenting, it is a different story sharing the ball in traffic. He has the endurance to mix it in the middle for extended periods. He regularly works 13-14km in games and regularly plays 90% plus game time, and has at times played 100%.

The rejection of him as a wing option is ludicrous. Granted, he would need some schooling in keeping width and when to present forward or back. It is a different skill set to the smarts needed to a second guess an experienced forward and cover space than to read the direction of play and provide an outnumber. Acres is a modern wingman who evolved from 3rd tall back and forward and some time in the middle and pinch hitting ruckman to make the role his own. He didn’t have a “best position” until moved to a wing. St Kilda didn’t settle him there, they persisted with him playing the second ruck chop out as a fall back and he found himself in and out of the side for a while before being traded and making the wing his own at Freo. He again was sold short and they short changed his salary package under the premise they had developing kids who could shift in to the role.

Kemp is probably a little more athletic than Acres and while it has taken time, now has a similar endurance package, with the ability for multiple high paced efforts. We have the Campos coming, with Ollie and maybe Binns and Wilson as options going forward, but Kemp absolutely has the package to be quality wing option, able to assist strongly defensively as well as impacting forward as well or perhaps better than “the Sherriff” in time.

The drama is, we don’t have suitable key defenders, and our brain’s trust seems more interested in adding options midfield and forward than addressing our (quality) key position shortage.

Kemp has been thrown to the wolves during his development years. He played forward or back in the twos based on need in the seconds. Never his developmental need. He was played where we were short, not as his logical third tall option, always the fill in key due to his athleticism allowing him to punch above his weight.

I get annoyed at posters selling him short or pigeon holing him. He has limitations, but has some outstanding “weapons” which could be better utilised.

Kemp certainly provokes some discussion. Many people can see some real talent in him

Coming back from a knee he was struggling to find his spot. Tried in defence and did well and now due to lack of options he is having to play on players much bigger than him and it's hard. Also, at the moment the ball is coming in ridiculous easy inside 50.

Do the coaches see him as defender? I don't know.

What I do know is during the pre season in match sims he spent time around the middle and was very very good. He was smart and creative. He doesn't panic like he does in defence. He had a couple of fun match ups on Cripps. Physically they are similar.

Time will tell but if we can have a 195cm mobile player running around a wing or midfield like Acres or Mason Wood we become a much better side