List Mgmt. 2024 Trade & List Management Thread - Part II

[hoffseason gains 01]

Mitchell might be alright for us but I'm of the opinion that Archer is our lockdown and instead of locking down on two small forwards we get a small forwards and outscore the opposition.

No clubs run with two lockdown small defenders. Some, like GWS, don't even play one.

I see it more as a Quaynor/Maynard or a Hardwick/Scrimshaw type of situation. Arch is more suited to playing on all types and rolling off and intercepting. Why I like Mitchell is that he’s capable offensively too.

Ideally we’re not playing a man on man system anyway and all of our defenders are both capable of defending, intercepting and to an extent attacking (definitely not going to happen for a while)

 

[hawkinoz]

Yep. If it was just about money then we should pay whatever it takes to get some older experienced guys in their final years to come and play then coach (if that sweetens the deal).

If we don’t win more games then whatever talent we have amassed will go backwards just like Melb a decade ago.

I suggested Sam Frost earlier and didn't get any takers.

He will be sent to VFL in 2025 if Barrass and Battle come over, could be enticed over with good $$$ for 2-3 yr contract with triggers.

Will be valuable depth for us in 2025 though but with our F/S McCabe also looking for chances, I think we will be ok.

Seamus Mitchell will get signed up for longer if Bodie Ryan doesn't come on quicker, unlikely you will get him as UFA.

 

[buttox]

We’d ideally restructure his contract and significantly front end it. So many on this forum are quick to bemoan our poor performance when it comes to attracting talented players to the club - Stephens, Fisher, Stephenson, Polec etc. The reality is the best players in the league have never considered North a viable option when seeking to move, and probably won’t into the future. Like someone has just mentioned Dangerfield as an option honestly with all due respect get a grip. As a club with a small profile, we need to take half opportunities when they present. Clayton is a more decorated, talented player than nearly everyone North has had on their list for the past 2 decades bar a small handful. I appreciate he has had a difficult few years with health, performance and drug issues but if we do our due diligence and feel lock we can unlock the old Oliver again, we’d be negligent not to look at it.

Isn't the issue with clarry his deal is epicly long and 1.2m per year?
How do you restructure that?
Contract him until he's 40?
The deal is the whole problem with him or every club would-be into him.

 

[hoffseason gains 01]

I suggested Sam Frost earlier and didn't get any takers.

He will be sent to VFL in 2025 if Barrass and Battle come over, could be enticed over with good $$$ for 2-3 yr contract with triggers.

Will be valuable depth for us in 2025 though but with our F/S McCabe also looking for chances, I think we will be ok.

Seamus Mitchell will get signed up for longer if Bodie Ryan doesn't come on quicker, unlikely you will get him as UFA.

Unlikely that Frost would ever be a target due to Corr, sort of serve the exact same role although Frost has been admittedly better at it this year.

Agree re: Mitchell, Hawks would be crazy not to sign him up for longer soon. I was massive on Bodie last year pre-draft. Hawks know how to draft reliable defenders very well. As much depth that can be locked up for longer the better.

I brought up Mitchell as there’s not many of those types out there.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

Christian Petracca

5

Christian Petracca

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.4

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.5

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

3.4

4star

D

19.0

5star

K

7.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.0

4star

is going to have to eat a big serve of humble pie and go back to Melbourne pre season with his tail between his legs.

Melbourne won't trade him and realistically the only Victorian clubs that have a semblance of the draft capital and salary cap space to get the deal done will be those in the bottom half of the ladder and I can't see him wanting us, Richmond or St.Kilda.

Having said that it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up at Geelong and they recieve Melbourne's 1st round pick for taking him off their books.

 

[Ball Dont Lie]

Depending on draft capital I would hope to go after the following and who they would replace in the team. All are risks but we need to take them.

2MP (2nd round pick) replaces pink.
Parker (3rd pick) replaces shields.
Oliver (not sure depends if dees pay any salary) replaces Philips/Jy
Tom Lynch. (3rd pick) replaces Teakle.

 

[Makeshift Park]

It’s pretty outrageous that Trac can sign a multi year, multi million dollar deal and then demand a trade only to a Club of his choice and completely destabilise the Club to force their hand.

Dees should be able to trade him to who ever offers them the best deal.

Nah **** 'em.

The decision to send him back out with a lacerated spleen, four broken ribs and a punctured lung wasn't his fault.

I can completely understand how he and his family feel like they've been gaslit this year.

 

[archereleven]

Don’t want him thanks. We’re not in the right window to recruit someone like him.

Nothing to do with windows. We are ****ing shit.

Trac would do as much for us off-field as he would on field. Our midfield would instantly become one of the best in the comp imo, we would win more games, thus attracting more talent, and he is a solid dude that the boys would look up to and get around.

Imagine Trac setting up LDU, Sheezel, George, Powell, etc. for 5 years. The on field coaching would be worth its weight in gold.

If Trac put his hat in the ring, I'd give him the captaincy until Sheezel was ready to take the reigns in a few years.

On SM-G991B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[NMFC TID]

Depending on draft capital I would hope to go after the following and who they would replace in the team. All are risks but we need to take them.

2MP (2nd round pick) replaces pink.
Parker (3rd pick) replaces shields.
Oliver (not sure depends if dees pay any salary) replaces Philips/Jy
Tom Lynch. (3rd pick) replaces Teakle.

If the club takes 2MP let alone spends a second on 2MP I’ll riot.

 

[shinboner magic]

Yeh this was confirmed 2 days ago.
He is retiring.

What a soft campaigner

 

[shinboner magic]

Yes to hind and get a few more that can run/ tackle.
Got enough talent , just get guys to stop other sides running.
Tigers game plan of tackle and win contests

 

[Merlin007]

Nah **** 'em.

The decision to send him back out with a lacerated spleen, four broken ribs and a punctured lung wasn't his fault.

I can completely understand how he and his family feel like they've been gaslit this year.

This is the angle that Gary Lyon and the Melbourne hierarchy need to be careful of - if petracca gets bad mouthed too hard, he might just turn around and say I cant play for a club that put me on the field with undiagnosed life threatening injuries - and btw, here’s the law suit

 

[Makeshift Park]

This is the angle that Gary Lyon and the Melbourne hierarchy need to be careful of - if petracca gets bad mouthed too hard, he might just turn around and say I cant play for a club that put me on the field with undiagnosed life threatening injuries - and btw, here’s the law suit

Exactly. It just seems they're too arrogant to realise what they're doing.

 

[Blightys Barrel]

I would look at Hind. My sister doesn't like him as a Bombers supporter, but he is an upgrade on Fisher defensively and can add a little Colby running as he moves up the ground.

Fisher and Defensively should not exist in the one sentence.

 

[ChairmanZia]

F the big name stars, we don't need them. We first need to get the whole team to have much better pressure, just like post brad sacking, the 10 weeks under Shaw. What happened to that whole team pressure?

When the whole team is applying pressure well, you can make an average team look really good.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

If anything Sam McClure said about Petracca is true, it makes Petracca sound like the absolute biggest w***er out there.

 

[Lomas]

This is the angle that Gary Lyon and the Melbourne hierarchy need to be careful of - if petracca gets bad mouthed too hard, he might just turn around and say I cant play for a club that put me on the field with undiagnosed life threatening injuries - and btw, here’s the law suit

Workplace safety and restraint of trade are big elephants in the room. Not to mention the wrath of player agents.

 

[ohmygewd]

Let's not kid ourselves here, Trac has lost faith in Goodwin! You can say the player wanted to come or the medicos cleared him but don't tell me the coach wasn't pressuring them all...all for;what, 4 points?
Unfortunately we don't have the capital for him unless you trade pick 2+ Larkey for him because Dees will want a king's ransom.

 

[Harvey Manfrenjensenden]

It's infuriating to talk of restoring a senior bracket of players now. Brady & Co should be lynched for their decision making 2019-21.

I maintain my stance we should've retained Higgins, Brown and given Tarrant a fair deal back then.

You then have senior presence amd leadership on-ball, forward and defence. You'll still get your draft picks and work your new players into something of a system. The odd win then builds confidence.

And the return we got for those decisions?

Jaidyn Stephenson and Charlie Lazarro. No disrespect to Charlie but neither moved the needle for us.

This is not revisionism. Said it at the time but the list managers felt shredding our experience and KPP depth from 2018+ was somehow going to roll into a magical blossoming a couple of years later.

100% on Higgins. Letting him go for nothing when he wanted to stay was a horrendous decision.

Not giving in to Browns demands has been proven to be the right call long term. We played our hand poorly, whose fault that is is difficult to say but it is fair to say the list management team as a whole didn't get maximum value for the cards we had. What we do know is that if Brown got what he wanted, he would have been paid $750 K this year or the equivalent of in his fifth year of the deal he asked for.

Trading for Stephenson and getting him is a tick for list management. That it didn't work out? I would say he is at least equally responsible. I won't argue if.you want to say the other 50% lies with development but it's not really quantifiable.

The original offer to Tarrant of one year was reasonable. I agree that our inability to sell our counter offer matching the Tigers offer was unfortunate. If the reason for that is we had already burnt that bridge then by all means we should be highly critical of the list management team. If he left because the offers were similar but the allure of playing for a.big club or the chance to play in a premiership was too much to resist that is the world we live in.

This whole.Brady and Co mentality regarding who is responsible for the current state of our list is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of list management and the different roles people within that team have played over the past 5 years.

The same premise that blames Terry Wallace for drafting Richard Tambling, despite Terry only getting the coaching job at Richmond a few weeks prior to that draft. Despite Terry repeatedly stating he had no say in that draft as the list managers had already done the work.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Let's not kid ourselves here, Trac has lost faith in Goodwin! You can say the player wanted to come or the medicos cleared him but don't tell me the coach wasn't pressuring them all...all for;what, 4 points?
Unfortunately we don't have the capital for him unless you trade pick 2+ Larkey for him because Dees will want a king's ransom.

I reckon once Trac starts turning up to meetings with his personal lawyer in tow they'll start facing the music.

Then they'll take whatever they can get, so long as the threat of messy and costly litigation that opens the blinds on Melbourne's internal culture goes away.

 

[ChairmanZia]

Let's not kid ourselves here, Trac has lost faith in Goodwin! You can say the player wanted to come or the medicos cleared him but don't tell me the coach wasn't pressuring them all...all for;what, 4 points?
Unfortunately we don't have the capital for him unless you trade pick 2+ Larkey for him because Dees will want a king's ransom.

Even if he stays and somehow coerced to play for 4 more years, his output would be drastically reduced and his brooding relation with his coach, club and staff will be such a toxic nature in that it will demoralise the club.

Coupled that with oliver's indifferent form and attitude. Your 2 biggest player in which a club is built around are doing what they are doing. It won't go down well with the club.

Melb could get 2 firsts with petracca, if the relation gets so bad that the club needs to offload him, then melb won't get much. We can dangle our pick 2 for a possible opportunistic get.

 

[ChairmanZia]

100% on Higgins. Letting him go for nothing when he wanted to stay was a horrendous decision.

Not giving in to Browns demands has been proven to be the right call long term. We played our hand poorly, whose fault that is is difficult to say but it is fair to say the list management team as a whole didn't get maximum value for the cards we had. What we do know is that if Brown got what he wanted, he would have been paid $750 K this year or the equivalent of in his fifth year of the deal he asked for.

Trading for Stephenson and getting him is a tick for list management. That it didn't work out? I would say he is at least equally responsible. I won't argue if.you want to say the other 50% lies with development but it's not really quantifiable.

The original offer to Tarrant of one year was reasonable. I agree that our inability to sell our counter offer matching the Tigers offer was unfortunate. If the reason for that is we had already burnt that bridge then by all means we should be highly critical of the list management team. If he left because the offers were similar but the allure of playing for a.big club or the chance to play in a premiership was too much to resist that is the world we live in.

This whole.Brady and Co mentality regarding who is responsible for the current state of our list is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of list management and the different roles people within that team have played over the past 5 years.

The same premise that blames Terry Wallace for drafting Richard Tambling, despite Terry only getting the coaching job at Richmond a few weeks prior to that draft. Despite Terry repeatedly stating he had no say in that draft as the list managers had already done the work.

We did sack all of the recruiters middle of 2022, that says something.

 

[krakouers]

Exactly. It just seems they're too arrogant to realise what they're doing.

They would have some very high level legal advice available to them but what they did then and now is very bizzare

Fisher and Defensively should not exist in the one sentence except for “Fisher is a liability defensively”

FIFY

 

[Harvey Manfrenjensenden]

We did sack all of the recruiters middle of 2022, that says something.

Except that's not what happened.

 

[The Anvil]

We’d ideally restructure his contract and significantly front end it. So many on this forum are quick to bemoan our poor performance when it comes to attracting talented players to the club - Stephens, Fisher, Stephenson, Polec etc. The reality is the best players in the league have never considered North a viable option when seeking to move, and probably won’t into the future. Like someone has just mentioned Dangerfield as an option honestly with all due respect get a grip. As a club with a small profile, we need to take half opportunities when they present. Clayton is a more decorated, talented player than nearly everyone North has had on their list for the past 2 decades bar a small handful. I appreciate he has had a difficult few years with health, performance and drug issues but if we do our due diligence and feel lock we can unlock the old Oliver again, we’d be negligent not to look at it.

Happy for the club to look at whoever they think could help, but I'd say Oliver is on the downward slope in what he provides on the field and what he provides off the field is one of the biggest red flags of all time.

Whoever the club chases, we need on field leaders in the 25-29 age bracket who are more than just good players on the field. Logue is this, probably Tucker is also this. So more of those types ideally.

I don't mind Stephens, he's not here to be an immediate leader, he's just another young kid with potential on the list.

Fisher has provided an immediate need, I don't mind that the club did this but I'd hope the Hardemann, Goater, and Bergmans of this team make him replaceable sooner rather than later.

Stephenson and Polec, they came with question marks and they have (and will) finish with unfulfilled expectations. Ideally no more of those. I'm not a fortune teller but I could see Oliver fall into this camp if we got him.