List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[gringo2011]

Flockart just did a knee.

 

[TheJackal]

If I was a decent afl player looking for a new home, Saints would be in the bottom 3 or 4 clubs I'd look at. We're just not an attractive proposition.

Based on our impatient cut-throat fans, premiership chances or ability to get a game and a healthy long contract?

 

[kernelT]

Had a peek at the past ten years of drafts today, I always thought that the 2004 - 2013 recruiting dynasty would be unbeatable in an own goal sense, but our 2014 - 2023 is really contending.

Drafts
2014
1st pick 1
McCartin
2nd pick 21
Goddard
3rd pick 22
McKenzie
4th pick 41
Lonie

2015
1st pick 18
Gresham
2nd pick 40
White
3rd pick 49
Rice

2016
1st pick 25
Long
2nd pick 39
Battle
3rd pick 56
Phillips

2017
1st pick 7
Clark
2nd pick 8
Coffield
3rd pick 35
Clavarino
4th pick 46
Paton

2018
1st pick 4
King
2nd pick 41
Bytel
3rd pick 47
Parker
4th pick 54
Hind
5th pick 67
Young

2019
1st pick 52
Byrnes
2nd pick 64
Connolly

2020
1st pick 26
Allison
2nd pick 45
Highmore

2021
1st pick 11
NAS
2nd pick 33
Owens
3rd pick
Windhager
4th pick 51
Adams

2022
1st pick 10
Pou
2nd pick
Van Es
3rd pick 35
Hotton
4th pick 44
Keeler

2023
1st pick 18
Wilson
2nd pick 28
Collard
3rd pick 33
Hastie
4th pick 50
Garcia
5th pick 62
Schoey

Bolded players still on the list and hard to say much about guys taken in the last two drafts as they all get 2 years minimum. The academy players are looking like a huge bonus considering we only have 6 players from the previous 7 drafts. Four of which are looking dubious in Clark, Paton, Allison & Byrnes.

Trade cost is hard to decipher with so many picks getting thrown around, so these are simplistic costs.

Trades
2015
Carlisle - pick 5 & 24 - 14 back
Freeman - 2016 2nd
2016
Jack Steele - 2017 2nd
Koby Stevens

Koby Stevens

Age

33

Ht

189cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.4

5star

K

7.7

3star

HB

10.7

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.6

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.6

4star

- 50 & future something
2017
Logan Austin

24

Logan Austin

Age

29

Ht

196cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

4.2

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

172.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

MG

126.8

2star

- 2018 3rd
2018
Dan Hannebery - 2019 2nd + 39
Dean Kent

25

Dean Kent

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.6

3star

- pick 65
2019
Butler - 56
Hill - 10, 58, 2020 2nd & 4th, Acres
Howard, Ryder - 12 & 18 - 10 back
Jones - 32, 76 + change
2020
Higgins - 17, 2021 2nd - 21 and 2021 4th back
2023
Dow - complicated
Henry - 2024 2nd

14 players traded in Steele the clear standout. Butler, Howard, Jones looking a bit shay.

We seem to have more luck looking in the bin for DFA and rookies which is a worry. Sinclair, Marshall & Wilkie in our best half a dozen most years. The newest version of our recruiting team looks good so far, but then I also remember thinking the same thing over the past ten years about other recruiting set-ups.

Do we pick the wrong players or is our development keeping players from reaching their potential?

 

[botts]

Had a peak at the past ten years of drafts today, I always thought that the 2004 - 2013 recruiting dynasty would be unbeatable in an own goal sense, but our 2014 - 2023 is really contending.

Drafts
2014
1st pick 1
McCartin
2nd pick 21
Goddard
3rd pick 22
McKenzie
4th pick 41
Lonie

2015
1st pick 18
Gresham
2nd pick 40
White
3rd pick 49
Rice

2016
1st pick 25
Long
2nd pick 39
Battle
3rd pick 56
Phillips

2017
1st pick 7
Clark
2nd pick 8
Coffield
3rd pick 35
Clavarino
4th pick 46
Paton

2018
1st pick 4
King
2nd pick 41
Bytel
3rd pick 47
Parker
4th pick 54
Hind
5th pick 67
Young

2019
1st pick 52
Byrnes
2nd pick 64
Connolly

2020
1st pick 26
Allison
2nd pick 45
Highmore

2021
1st pick 11
NAS
2nd pick 33
Owens
3rd pick
Windhager
4th pick 51
Adams

2022
1st pick 10
Pou
2nd pick
Van Es
3rd pick 35
Hotton
4th pick 44
Keeler

2023
1st pick 18
Wilson
2nd pick 28
Collard
3rd pick 33
Hastie
4th pick 50
Garcia
5th pick 62
Schoey

Bolded players still the list and hard to say much about guys taken in the last two drafts as they all get 2 years minimum. The academy players are looking like huge a huge bonus considering we only have 6 players from the previous 7 drafts. Four of which are looking dubious in Clark, Paton, Allison & Byrnes.

Trade cost is hard to decipher with so many picks getting thrown around, so these are simplistic costs.

Trades
2015
Carlisle - pick 5 & 24 - 14 back
Freeman - 2016 2nd
2016
Jack Steele - 2017 2nd
Koby Stevens - 50 & future something
2017
Logan Austin - 2018 3rd
2018
Dan Hannebery - 2019 2nd + 39
Dean Kent - pick 65
2019
Butler - 56
Hill - 10, 58, 2020 2nd & 4th, Acres
Howard, Ryder - 12 & 18 - 10 back
Jones - 32, 76 + change
2020
Higgins - 17, 2021 2nd - 21 and 2021 4th back
2023
Dow - complicated
Henry - 2024 2nd

14 players traded in Steele the clear standout. Butler, Howard, Jones looking a bit shay.

We seem to have more luck looking in the bin for DFA and rookies which is a worry. Sinclair, Marshall & Wilkie in our best half a dozen most years. The newest version of our recruiting team looks good so far, but then I also remember thinking the same thing over the past ten years about other crops.

Discuss.

We have made some shocking decision as a club. Lethas was behind a lot of them and that’s why he is gone. We have a totally new recruiting and draft team now so hopefully our luck can change.
We will try to get another high pick this year. I know Gold Coast have a couple they don’t need but hopefully it doesn’t cost us to much.
Next two draft and trade periods will be critical

 

[gringo2011]

Had a peek at the past ten years of drafts today, I always thought that the 2004 - 2013 recruiting dynasty would be unbeatable in an own goal sense, but our 2014 - 2023 is really contending.

Drafts
2014
1st pick 1
McCartin
2nd pick 21
Goddard
3rd pick 22
McKenzie
4th pick 41
Lonie

2015
1st pick 18
Gresham
2nd pick 40
White
3rd pick 49
Rice

2016
1st pick 25
Long
2nd pick 39
Battle
3rd pick 56
Phillips

2017
1st pick 7
Clark
2nd pick 8
Coffield
3rd pick 35
Clavarino
4th pick 46
Paton

2018
1st pick 4
King
2nd pick 41
Bytel
3rd pick 47
Parker
4th pick 54
Hind
5th pick 67
Young

2019
1st pick 52
Byrnes
2nd pick 64
Connolly

2020
1st pick 26
Allison
2nd pick 45
Highmore

2021
1st pick 11
NAS
2nd pick 33
Owens
3rd pick
Windhager
4th pick 51
Adams

2022
1st pick 10
Pou
2nd pick
Van Es
3rd pick 35
Hotton
4th pick 44
Keeler

2023
1st pick 18
Wilson
2nd pick 28
Collard
3rd pick 33
Hastie
4th pick 50
Garcia
5th pick 62
Schoey

Bolded players still on the list and hard to say much about guys taken in the last two drafts as they all get 2 years minimum. The academy players are looking like a huge bonus considering we only have 6 players from the previous 7 drafts. Four of which are looking dubious in Clark, Paton, Allison & Byrnes.

Trade cost is hard to decipher with so many picks getting thrown around, so these are simplistic costs.

Trades
2015
Carlisle - pick 5 & 24 - 14 back
Freeman - 2016 2nd
2016
Jack Steele - 2017 2nd
Koby Stevens - 50 & future something
2017
Logan Austin - 2018 3rd
2018
Dan Hannebery - 2019 2nd + 39
Dean Kent - pick 65
2019
Butler - 56
Hill - 10, 58, 2020 2nd & 4th, Acres
Howard, Ryder - 12 & 18 - 10 back
Jones - 32, 76 + change
2020
Higgins - 17, 2021 2nd - 21 and 2021 4th back
2023
Dow - complicated
Henry - 2024 2nd

14 players traded in Steele the clear standout. Butler, Howard, Jones looking a bit shay.

We seem to have more luck looking in the bin for DFA and rookies which is a worry. Sinclair, Marshall & Wilkie in our best half a dozen most years. The newest version of our recruiting team looks good so far, but then I also remember thinking the same thing over the past ten years about other recruiting set-ups.

Do we pick the wrong players or is our development keeping players from reaching their potential?

Clark, Paton, Allison could all easily be delisted in the next couple of years and Byrnes could go either way still. Makes a pretty huge hole in drafting and trades. Battle and King from 8 drafts is a shocker. If King doesn't reach his ceiling that will go down as one of the worst periods for any side. To have stayed mid table from that kind of self inflicted damage is actually incredible.

 

[gringo2011]

We have made some shocking decision as a club. Lethas was behind a lot of them and that’s why he is gone. We have a totally new recruiting and draft team now so hopefully our luck can change.
We will try to get another high pick this year. I know Gold Coast have a couple they don’t need but hopefully it doesn’t cost us to much.
Next two draft and trade periods will be critical

Not luck. Poor standards. Finnis wouldn't spend on the footy department so you get what you put in. Keeping Trout against all evidence was insane. Even when we replaced him we put in his understudy. Libba would have at least got us Rozee instead of King so would have had one star quality player already.

 

[The Punter]

Not luck. Poor standards. Finnis wouldn't spend on the footy department so you get what you put in. Keeping Trout against all evidence was insane. Even when we replaced him we put in his understudy. Libba would have at least got us Rozee instead of King so would have had one star quality player already.

Do we get Port Adelaide Rozee or "spent five years developing at St Kilda" Rozee?

The sliding door is always just a different player who would not have kicked on.

 

[botts]

Not luck. Poor standards. Finnis wouldn't spend on the footy department so you get what you put in. Keeping Trout against all evidence was insane. Even when we replaced him we put in his understudy. Libba would have at least got us Rozee instead of King so would have had one star quality player already.

Richo wanted rozee but our preferred mid was smith.

 

[phantom13]

Tyrian.....as was pointed out to me last night,after Port next week(not holding my breath there....but I fantasize about 2020) ...the next 6 games in theory are quite winnable.

On current form......and with players back and not losing any more.....who knows.

Some may say I have my head up my glass....!!!!!

Port, North, Hawks, Dockers, Dees, Eagles, Suns, Lions to the bye.

No shot against Port, Dees and Lions.

North, Hawks and Eagles should be wins (although Hawks and Eagles looked alright on the weekend, much better than us).

Dockers and Suns are probably 50/50 both were poor on the weekend but have been alright to start the year.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[Remboy]

Port, North, Hawks, Dockers, Dees, Eagles, Suns, Lions to the bye.

No shot against Port, Dees and Lions.

North, Hawks and Eagles should be wins (although Hawks and Eagles looked alright on the weekend, much better than us).

Dockers and Suns are probably 50/50 both were poor on the weekend but have been alright to start the year.

Were any of those teams coming off consecutive six and five day breaks and two interstate trips?
It doesn't justify the weekend but it definitely doesn't help. Robbo mentioned it in the HS today.

 

[LifestyleSaints]

I would hope we are talking to Bailey Smith

I would also be spending plenty of time doing some due diligence on TT

I’d pay Allison out and roll the dice on someone mid season

Can we talk to Goober re his life goals and getting fit?

We need to be really creative

It’s all good building a list around young blokes like Mitch & Windy but they are picks in the mid 30’s and about 50

We need to somehow get some still young top end talent into the team - not top end talent looking for retirement packages

If we traded for Bailey Smith then the club should be burnt to the ground. It would mean we would have wasted our FRDP and our SRDP on a guy who is coming off an ACL. This would mean we would be left with rubbish picks going into the draft. We need as many young talent from the draft every year not just one 23 year old coming back from an ACL FFS.

 

[phantom13]

Were any of those teams coming off consecutive six and five day breaks and two interstate trips?
It doesn't justify the weekend but it definitely doesn't help. Robbo mentioned it in the HS today.

Freo come off a fortnight in Adelaide, no idea what their break was cause truly, I don’t care. It’s not an excuse and literally everyone keeps saying “not an excuse BUT”.

We played like trash and if we’re basing form of that we maybe beat north and no one else.

I’m assessing the year, which Collingwood aside (and let’s not lie, we got them before they figured their shit out) we’ve been varying shades of poor.

 

[gringo2011]

Do we get Port Adelaide Rozee or "spent five years developing at St Kilda" Rozee?

The sliding door is always just a different player who would not have kicked on.

I don't buy that stuff. It's not the stars that get lost in development. It's being able to recognise a glimmer in a guy taken at pick 50 and develop them to their strengths and team needs. Turning someone like Ed Phillips into an elite wingman would be where elite development kicks in.

That said I reckon putting King in along side Josh Bruce where he could have done everything at his own pace probably helps make him a confident player with less weight on his shoulders.

 

[gringo2011]

Weak campaigner wants success and glory over hard slog. Don't want him now.

 

[The Punter]

I don't buy that stuff. It's not the stars that get lost in development. It's being able to recognise a glimmer in a guy taken at pick 50 and develop them to their strengths and team needs. Turning someone like Ed Phillips into an elite wingman would be where elite development kicks in.

That said I reckon putting King in along side Josh Bruce where he could have done everything at his own pace probably helps make him a confident player with less weight on his shoulders.

So King was always incapable of being a star? Sounds like putting him next to Bruce would have qualified as development.

 

[gringo2011]

Were any of those teams coming off consecutive six and five day breaks and two interstate trips?
It doesn't justify the weekend but it definitely doesn't help. Robbo mentioned it in the HS today.

We have been unlucky, hard fixture, injury, down years for a lot of players and seemingly low on confidence but the interstate games early in the season shouldn't make us uncompetitive. We should be at peak fitness.

 

[BrutThough]

Not luck. Poor standards. Finnis wouldn't spend on the footy department so you get what you put in. Keeping Trout against all evidence was insane. Even when we replaced him we put in his understudy. Libba would have at least got us Rozee instead of King so would have had one star quality player already.

When Finnis arrived, we couldn't afford to pay the full football department cap.

 

[gringo2011]

So King was always incapable of being a star? Sounds like putting him next to Bruce would have qualified as development.

I'm agreeing it might have given confidence to be a better player earlier. Don't think it limits his long term potential though. Rozee seems like a star quality player, not sure Max has that in him now. I see him more Joe Daniher or best case Tom Lynch. He could win a Coleman but he's not going to be Franklin or Plugger.

 

[stavro#4]

Weak campaigner wants success and glory over hard slog. Don't want him now.

Really isn’t surprising.

It was probably more weird having posters believe he would leave a Geelong side that is sitting in the 8 and having another crack - the caveat to this entire thing is us going well above his market rate and Geelong refusing to match, which would then piss off said posters aswell.

 

[gringo2011]

When Finnis arrived, we couldn't afford to pay the full football department cap.

Don't buy that, we were given a huge distribution. The Dogs were in the same boat and managed to win a flag.

 

[The Punter]

I'm agreeing it might have given confidence to be a better player earlier. Don't think it limits his long term potential though. Rozee seems like a star quality player, not sure Max has that in him now. I see him more Joe Daniher or best case Tom Lynch. He could win a Coleman but he's not going to be Franklin or Plugger.

Lynch has a B&F in a finals team. Where do I sign?

 

[BrutThough]

Don't buy that, we were given a huge distribution. The Dogs were in the same boat and managed to win a flag.

It's been publicly stated many times. The distribution didn't make up for our lack of sponsorship, poor crowds, low membership numbers, horrific stadium deal etc.

 

[saint_]

The 2nd round draft pick that we received from GWS in the first rounder pick swap trade isn't looking too bad right now. GWS gave us the Adelaide 2nd rounder (around Pick 24).

 

[gringo2011]

If we traded for Bailey Smith then the club should be burnt to the ground. It would mean we would have wasted our FRDP and our SRDP on a guy who is coming off an ACL. This would mean we would be left with rubbish picks going into the draft. We need as many young talent from the draft every year not just one 23 year old coming back from an ACL FFS.

I agree, don't think the timing is right. We need one more draft and hopefully a top 8 pick. He's not a competitive beast inside player either. He's more like a messier Nas or Henry. We really need someone who can win contested inside footy at an elite standard. Chasing a Ben Hobbs type that isn't there yet but wants to play midfield probably makes more sense.