List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

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The_Steadier said:
www.afl.com.au

League open to pick purchasing as part of trade changes

AFL player movement boss Ned Guy says the League is open to introducing pick purchasing, allowing clubs to use their salary cap money in exchange for draft picks
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

This could be huge for us (if we are brave enough to stop playing it safe with list mgt and actually innovate)

The ability to simply buy picks with spare salary cap would be huge for us.

We won't ever get the big fish elite mid(s) we need (eg degoey, kelly etc) to become a flag contender via trade or free agency.

If we are brave enough to face up to that reality and stop chasing unicorns- being able to use our huge stockpile of unspent salary cap on buying a couple of extra first round draft picks is our best realistic option.

If the AFL bring this in- I'm all in on us maxing out our salary cap for the next 3+ years (while maintaining our current list and not bringing in any RFA's etc) IF if means our free cap space is spent on getting 2+ extra first round picks.

(Hypothetically) if we got 2+ extra first rounders for cap space- it could look something like this imo:

2024:
Finish ~13th = pick 6
+
extra first rounder = ~pick 15

2025:
Finish ~13th = pick 6
+
extra first rounder = ~pick 15


We then hit 2026+ with the cupboard FULL of elite young talent in the 18-20yo bracket

Plus- by that time- all of wilson, owens, windy, nas, king, battle, higgins etc will be in their prime years with ~80+ games under their belt.


Sign.me.up.
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Can live with bad this year but would want finals next.

So we have pick 12 say and 15, could package them for a top ten pick.

We need the extra picks for the quality

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Joffaboy said:
Can live with bad this year but would want finals next.

So we have pick 12 say and 15, could package them for a top ten pick.

We need the extra picks for the quality

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app
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It probably depends on the draft pool. Some years you’d be better off with 12 and 15 than 8 on its own.
If we off load another player (as we did with Gresham and Long) for a second rounder we could up with four picks in the first two rounds. I feel unless we’re getting a top three pick we might be better off just getting as many picks as possible. The more darts you throw the more chances of hitting the bullseye (or at least getting on the dartboard).
 
sammm said:
Camporeli twins coming this year I think.
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Yeah I think you're right, but mine was more what Ashcroft did before his knee in slotting in at a Brissie playing in finals, and that they get ANOTHER Aschroft that is supposedly better is a highlight.

That I then linked to our Frankie, as the one that had boys from that sort of time period, and how "woe is us" that they weren't / aren't in the discussion for pick 1 in an ND.

You could pick any number of them, like the Daicos' running around for example of a top 5, that F/S selections can be such a boon that we just don't have.
 

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The Punter said:
Fair enough, but despite Wilson being a very good get, we already had one of him (B Hill). What we need is a large bodied, explodes from stoppage, get on my back we're winning today mid. We've needed it since Lenny Hayes stopped being at his peak. And we don't have it, and they're rare, and even if you bottom out for five years who still might not find them (ask Hawthorn).

We've been waiting in the queue for a while and it hasn't worked. Time for a different approach.
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Wilson is already far far more contested than Hill, and exactly what we need in the midfield, a player capable of receiving and running the ball, acceleration out of contests, get him in there

The Punter said:
Players aren't paid enough. Get them deciding between sticking fat or $300,000 per annum after tax in difference of contract and the water will start flowing like a river in the quickest way to where the money is.

GAJ went to the Gold Coast because the contract difference was seven figures per annum. Once the money becomes too good to refuse, only then will the salary cap start acting like the de facto talent cap it is intended to be.
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its what the cap floor being so high is preventing
 
Mat Mann said:
Wilson is already far far more contested than Hill, and exactly what we need in the midfield, a player capable of receiving and running the ball, acceleration out of contests, get him in there


its what the cap floor being so high is preventing
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Removing the cap floor so certain players can be paid a fortune and the rest the same will only increase resentment among teammates. All players need to be paid more.
 
Time for the socialist salary cap.

Every player gets the same base rate and match payments.

Then you get bonuses for BnF results, Brownlow/Coaches/AFLPA awards, goalkicking for the team and comp, defensive rating etc

Encourage someone like Chad Warner to go be the big fish in the little talent pond that WCE have and he can vacuum up all their awards $$
 
The Punter said:
Removing the cap floor so certain players can be paid a fortune and the rest the same will only increase resentment among teammates. All players need to be paid more.
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I said lowering not removing

A TPP of A$13,540,000 for the 2022 season, with a salary floor of $12,863,000. A$700k difference between the top and bottom is nowhere near enough to enable clubs lower on the ladder to entice players to move.

North having to pay 95% of what Brisbane/Pies/Sydney/GWS do is utter craziness and that's without all the deals outside the TPP. having to pay Billings and Gresham $800k is insane, imagine what North is paying some players to lose every week. Players have managers and all deals have to be lodged with the AFL, so the chance of payers being underpaid is remote at best, and as you said, resentment isn't something clubs want.

Player movement is heavily guided in 1 direction and clubs lower down need a bigger level to pull.
 
Mat Mann said:
I said lowering not removing

A TPP of A$13,540,000 for the 2022 season, with a salary floor of $12,863,000. A$700k difference between the top and bottom is nowhere near enough to enable clubs lower on the ladder to entice players to move.

North having to pay 95% of what Brisbane/Pies/Sydney/GWS do is utter craziness and that's without all the deals outside the TPP. having to pay Billings and Gresham $800k is insane, imagine what North is paying some players to lose every week. Players have managers and all deals have to be lodged with the AFL, so the chance of payers being underpaid is remote at best, and as you said, resentment isn't something clubs want.

Player movement is heavily guided in 1 direction and clubs lower down need a bigger level to pull.
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The main advocate for the floor is the player's association. Pay all the players more and they'll care less about the floor.

American sports manage to get about 50% of their revenue to their players. In the AFL it's more like 30%.
 
The Punter said:
The main advocate for the floor is the player's association. Pay all the players more and they'll care less about the floor.

American sports manage to get about 50% of their revenue to their players. In the AFL it's more like 30%.
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The AFL is structured nothing like american sports-

For starters it is literally a not for profit and therefore has tax exempt status.

If it went from 30% to 50% of the AFL's billion dollar revenue going to a lucky ~800 footballers (at the expense of that extra 20% going into grassroots programs etc)- there would (or should) be rioting in the streets.
 
I put this in the list management thread but maybe this one is more active.

I know this will be a very unpopular opinion and I understand why. But what would people think about trading Rowan Marshall if we were to get 2 top 10 picks for him? As much as I have love him and would hate to see him play for another team, I think the ruck position can be filled by a younger ruck not getting a game on another list e.g. Nick Bryan and Ned Moyle or someone along those lines. The last few premiers have had Darcy Cameron (got for nothing), Rhys Stanley (not overly good), Max Gawn (an exception to my point), Toby Nankervis (got for nothing) and Jordan Roughead (pick 33, nothing amazing). My point is by getting 2 top 10 picks for him, we could finally combine all 3 top 10 picks to draft some A-grade talent as our midfield is what is killing us the most. Getting his big contract off our books, in combination with our already huge war chest, means we can pay a Nick Bryan or Moyle slightly more than other clubs whilst still having a massive amount to spend on someone like LDU next year. Again, I love Row and he's one of the only ones that tries every single week, but he's turning 29 this year and realistically won't be apart of a saints premiership and he may as well try and enjoy some success. Pls don't rip me apart :(

(Edit: I only said 2 top 10 picks as I saw a poll where the majority of fans said they wouldn't accept that trade so wanted to see what some actual fans thought. I think he's worth more pick 7-10 and a mid-late teens pick)
 
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Ilovewindy said:
I put this in the list management thread but maybe this one is more active.

I know this will be a very unpopular opinion and I understand why. But what would people think about trading Rowan Marshall if we were to get 2 top 10 picks for him? As much as I have love him and would hate to see him play for another team, I think the ruck position can be filled by a younger ruck not getting a game on another list e.g. Nick Bryan and Ned Moyle or someone along those lines. The last few premiers have had Darcy Cameron (got for nothing), Rhys Stanley (not overly good), Max Gawn (an exception to my point), Toby Nankervis (got for nothing) and Jordan Roughead (pick 33, nothing amazing). My point is by getting 2 top 10 picks for him, we could finally combine all 3 top 10 picks to draft some A-grade talent as our midfield is what is killing us the most. Getting his big contract off our books, in combination with our already huge war chest, means we can pay a Nick Bryan or Moyle slightly more than other clubs whilst still having a massive amount to spend on someone like LDU next year. Again, I love Row and he's one of the only ones that tries every single week, but he's turning 29 this year and realistically won't be apart of a saints premiership and he may as well try and enjoy some success. Pls don't rip me apart :(
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Doubt we’d get 2x top 10 picks.
 
Jade Buddha said:
Doubt we’d get 2x top 10 picks.
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Yeah that's also my thinking but I think id still do 2 1st rounders depending on where they sit. I saw a poll on one of the saints insta fan pages asking if you would trade Row for 2 top 10 picks and the majority of people said no which surprised me ahahah. why tf wouldn't you
 

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g_TRAIN said:
Because of his age we would not get 2 x top 10 picks (Already 28)
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Ye nah I agree. Mostly said that because a lot of fans rejected the thought of even that trade which I thought was wild. What about one top ten pick and a later first rounder. Having 3 picks in first round could make it easier for us to get to number one or at least in top 3 or have a couple in top 5-6
 
Yeah valid. I just feel like its frustrating seeing Wilkie, Sinclair, Steele and Marshall out there playing but will mostly likely never be involved in any success with us. And Marshall probably has the most value out of them and would be more a short-term pain for long-term gain but yeah I get why that would be unpopular amongst players and fans. Would be more if both parties were willing to part ways but sounds like he for some reason loves the club
 
Ilovewindy said:
Yeah valid. I just feel like its frustrating seeing Wilkie, Sinclair, Steele and Marshall out there playing but will mostly likely never be involved in any success with us. And Marshall probably has the most value out of them and would be more a short-term pain for long-term gain but yeah I get why that would be unpopular amongst players and fans. Would be more if both parties were willing to part ways but sounds like he for some reason loves the club
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The club will never see success if we get rid of anyone good under the guise they likely won't see success so we will send them elsewhere.
 
BrutThough said:
The club will never see success if we get rid of anyone good under the guise they likely won't see success so we will send them elsewhere.
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Yeh but I do reckon the ruck is one of the more replaceable positions on the field that we could achieve by not giving away that much. As much as Row is a gun player, he's actually not a good tap ruck either. I just can't see how we will ever get elite young talent unless we finish bottom 2-3 for a couple years or trade someone worth something, which seemingly won't happen because we have just enough mediocre talent to finish in a mediocre position
 
Ilovewindy said:
Yeh but I do reckon the ruck is one of the more replaceable positions on the field that we could achieve by not giving away that much. As much as Row is a gun player, he's actually not a good tap ruck either. I just can't see how we will ever get elite young talent unless we finish bottom 2-3 for a couple years or trade someone worth something, which seemingly won't happen because we have just enough mediocre talent to finish in a mediocre position
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Marshall is much more than a ruckman to our side though. We'd be also getting rid of our best ball winner and best around the ground player.

We also will never have 'elite' young players if we get rid of our good senior players and best weekly performers because those young players will be developing in a system with no real support or help each week. Getting thumped and going out there with no chance of winning doesn't help development of players.
 
BrutThough said:
Marshall is much more than a ruckman to our side though. We'd be also getting rid of our best ball winner and best around the ground player.

We also will never have 'elite' young players if we get rid of our good senior players and best weekly performers because those young players will be developing in a system with no real support or help each week. Getting thumped and going out there with no chance of winning doesn't help development of players.
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No agreed, that's why when rooey and joey and co left there was nothing. But it isn't like we would have no one. Still have Sinclair, Steele, Wilkie, Hill, Wood plus the emergence of some younger leaders like windy and nas. But if we don't come 2nd last or last, and refuse to trade anyone with value before they drop off, how are we ever going to get anywhere. And im ngl as I've said as much as I love row, its not really efficient having your ruckman as your best midfielder. We need actual midfield talent. We need bulls that can take receive it out of the ruck on the burst and break through stoppages. But happy to agree to disagree
 
We can keep relying on our group of 4-5 good players to get us pick 8-12, but we are in desperate need of an absolute gun in the top 3 picks of the draft. Yes there's every chance we pick a billings, but with how compromised the drafts are, its really hard to pick up a genuine gun outside of the top 3 (unless we get lucky). In saying this, I love the amount of youth we have at the moment and especially see guys like windy, Owens, Was, Wilson, Schoey, Garcia, Keeler, Hastie, collard really getting us somewhere but I do really think we need that cream of the crop and go hard for at least one more genuine gun
 
Ilovewindy said:
No agreed, that's why when rooey and joey and co left there was nothing. But it isn't like we would have no one. Still have Sinclair, Steele, Wilkie, Hill, Wood plus the emergence of some younger leaders like windy and nas. But if we don't come 2nd last or last, and refuse to trade anyone with value before they drop off, how are we ever going to get anywhere. And im ngl as I've said as much as I love row, its not really efficient having your ruckman as your best midfielder. We need actual midfield talent. We need bulls that can take receive it out of the ruck on the burst and break through stoppages. But happy to agree to disagree
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If we feel we need a 2nd draft pick at the top of the pile, I'd much rather we be aggressive with our future first than trade our best player. Or we look for players in the mold of Steele and Henry, and get them for a future 2nd. Or we try with Free Agents.
 
BrutThough said:
If we feel we need a 2nd draft pick at the top of the pile, I'd much rather we be aggressive with our future first than trade our best player. Or we look for players in the mold of Steele and Henry, and get them for a future 2nd. Or we try with Free Agents.
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Yep for sure. I'd def like us to be more aggressive with futures in order to get right to the top. Yeah, we'd never trade Marshall anyways, just something I've been thinking about
 
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