List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Ilovewindy]

The AFL might be giving us a 3rd option:

Cashing in spare salary cap for top draft picks

www.afl.com.au/news/1135576

That would be majorly helpful hahah

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

League open to pick purchasing as part of trade changes

AFL player movement boss Ned Guy says the League is open to introducing pick purchasing, allowing clubs to use their salary cap money in exchange for draft picks

www.afl.com.au

This could be huge for us (if we are brave enough to stop playing it safe with list mgt and actually innovate)

The ability to simply buy picks with spare salary cap would be huge for us.

We won't ever get the big fish elite mid(s) we need (eg degoey, kelly etc) to become a flag contender via trade or free agency.

If we are brave enough to face up to that reality and stop chasing unicorns- being able to use our huge stockpile of unspent salary cap on buying a couple of extra first round draft picks is our best realistic option.

If the AFL bring this in- I'm all in on us maxing out our salary cap for the next 3+ years (while maintaining our current list and not bringing in any RFA's etc) IF if means our free cap space is spent on getting 2+ extra first round picks.

(Hypothetically) if we got 2+ extra first rounders for cap space- it could look something like this imo:

2024:
Finish ~13th = pick 6
+
extra first rounder = ~pick 15

2025:
Finish ~13th = pick 6
+
extra first rounder = ~pick 15


We then hit 2026+ with the cupboard FULL of elite young talent in the 18-20yo bracket

Plus- by that time- all of wilson, owens, windy, nas, king, battle, higgins etc will be in their prime years with ~80+ games under their belt.


Sign.me.up.

Counter argument.

For example:
North is aware of this exact strategy.
As is Hawthorn.
Richmond.
West Coast.

Thus five teams all bidding for pick swaps.
And five teams who have prepared, or will prepare, the cap space to participate.

Then the other side of the coin, the teams willing to sell their picks for cap space.
These would be the top teams, say the top five.

Swans, Cats, Lions, Port, Collingwood.

They will sell their picks to the highest bidder.

So, what is St Kilda prepared to pay for #14?
Two hurdles: It has to be more than North etc, and be worth it to the 5th highest team.
Or does it become $’s and another pick?

TL: DR

This is not the solution you think, competition will make it harder and it will cost St Kilda (and the other four lowly teams) more than at first glance.

History, like with free agency, would suggest the advantage might ultimately rest with the successful rather than the unsuccessful teams.

 

[SteeleSaints]

League open to pick purchasing as part of trade changes

AFL player movement boss Ned Guy says the League is open to introducing pick purchasing, allowing clubs to use their salary cap money in exchange for draft picks

www.afl.com.au

This could be huge for us (if we are brave enough to stop playing it safe with list mgt and actually innovate)

The ability to simply buy picks with spare salary cap would be huge for us.

We won't ever get the big fish elite mid(s) we need (eg degoey, kelly etc) to become a flag contender via trade or free agency.

If we are brave enough to face up to that reality and stop chasing unicorns- being able to use our huge stockpile of unspent salary cap on buying a couple of extra first round draft picks is our best realistic option.

If the AFL bring this in- I'm all in on us maxing out our salary cap for the next 3+ years (while maintaining our current list and not bringing in any RFA's etc) IF if means our free cap space is spent on getting 2+ extra first round picks.

(Hypothetically) if we got 2+ extra first rounders for cap space- it could look something like this imo:

2024:
Finish ~13th = pick 6
+
extra first rounder = ~pick 15

2025:
Finish ~13th = pick 6
+
extra first rounder = ~pick 15


We then hit 2026+ with the cupboard FULL of elite young talent in the 18-20yo bracket

Plus- by that time- all of wilson, owens, windy, nas, king, battle, higgins etc will be in their prime years with ~80+ games under their belt.


Sign.me.up.

Its a great initiative and might help clubs like us to get out of the mid table quagmire. I would also like to see the ALFPA iand AFL to allow clubs like North not have to spend 95% on their cap, clubs are handicapped by this ruling. There is no way a club like North should be forced to pay players the same as the top clubs its ridiculous.

 

[g_TRAIN]

So, um, if today's training is anything to go by I'd be putting money on Dees over 39.

Two things I'm noticing pretty frequently, we are working on our inside 50s but with little pressure most of the guys are missing targets 75% of the time. Second thing I noticed is they really work a lot on their handball game in close. Thing that worries me is the number of times they are getting caught up with a defensive unit going at half pace to get structure right. We just looked so off today, little pressure but lots of skill errors.

I actually enjoyed it more when the players currently at Sandy were split off and went down the other end. Clark, Pou, Crouch and Arie were actually good to watch.

No sign of Hastie and Garcia, assuming rested and that could be why we aren't smashing them with senior appearances.

I have to say Darcy Wilson amazes me. Kid is so quick, so fleet footed, so clean and accurate. Today especially, he showed up everyone out there.

Higgins also showed that he has a footy brain good enough to deal with our inside 50s. I know his kicking can be frustrating but he had a good session.

I wish I could be more positive, but the general demeanour was flat and sloppy.

The defenders are solid, but midfield and forwardline seem to be so far off the boil at the moment.

Thanks for the report.

 

[austinnn]

So, um, if today's training is anything to go by I'd be putting money on Dees over 39.

Two things I'm noticing pretty frequently, we are working on our inside 50s but with little pressure most of the guys are missing targets 75% of the time. Second thing I noticed is they really work a lot on their handball game in close. Thing that worries me is the number of times they are getting caught up with a defensive unit going at half pace to get structure right. We just looked so off today, little pressure but lots of skill errors.

I actually enjoyed it more when the players currently at Sandy were split off and went down the other end. Clark, Pou, Crouch and Arie were actually good to watch.

No sign of Hastie and Garcia, assuming rested and that could be why we aren't smashing them with senior appearances.

I have to say Darcy Wilson amazes me. Kid is so quick, so fleet footed, so clean and accurate. Today especially, he showed up everyone out there.

Higgins also showed that he has a footy brain good enough to deal with our inside 50s. I know his kicking can be frustrating but he had a good session.

I wish I could be more positive, but the general demeanour was flat and sloppy.

The defenders are solid, but midfield and forwardline seem to be so far off the boil at the moment.

Maybe everyone in the club, media, and fans calling them the flat-out worst in the competition is having an emotional effect, idk

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Maybe everyone in the club, media, and fans calling them the flat-out worst in the competition is having an emotional effect, idk

It’s definitely knocking me around.

 

[wannabewinner]

o, um, if today's training is anything to go by I'd be putting money on Dees over 39

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Joffaboy]

Counter argument.

For example:
North is aware of this exact strategy.
As is Hawthorn.
Richmond.
West Coast.

Thus five teams all bidding for pick swaps.
And five teams who have prepared, or will prepare, the cap space to participate.

Then the other side of the coin, the teams willing to sell their picks for cap space.
These would be the top teams, say the top five.

Swans, Cats, Lions, Port, Collingwood.

They will sell their picks to the highest bidder.

So, what is St Kilda prepared to pay for #14?
Two hurdles: It has to be more than North etc, and be worth it to the 5th highest team.
Or does it become $’s and another pick?

TL: DR

This is not the solution you think, competition will make it harder and it will cost St Kilda (and the other four lowly teams) more than at first glance.

History, like with free agency, would suggest the advantage might ultimately rest with the successful rather than the unsuccessful teams.

Surely there will be parameters around it.

For example a booster club can't get free NGA's AND extra frdps, or a team that has received free pick like North can only purchase a second rounder etc.

Bassett has been leading the charge on the AFL booster clubs getting free top end talent year in year out while the rest get scraps.
It would be designed to help the non booster clubs who are permanently mid table.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TheJackal]

Maybe everyone in the club, media, and fans calling them the flat-out worst in the competition is having an emotional effect, idk

Their form is probably as frustrating for most of them as it is us. I'm sure everyone had quiet expectations of more success on the field that what we have produced.

Thanks for the tip.

I feel the need to say, 'past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results and investors may not recover the full amount invested'.

 

[The_Steadier]

Counter argument.

For example:
North is aware of this exact strategy.
As is Hawthorn.
Richmond.
West Coast.

Thus five teams all bidding for pick swaps.
And five teams who have prepared, or will prepare, the cap space to participate.

Then the other side of the coin, the teams willing to sell their picks for cap space.
These would be the top teams, say the top five.

Swans, Cats, Lions, Port, Collingwood.

They will sell their picks to the highest bidder.

So, what is St Kilda prepared to pay for #14?
Two hurdles: It has to be more than North etc, and be worth it to the 5th highest team.
Or does it become $’s and another pick?

TL: DR

This is not the solution you think, competition will make it harder and it will cost St Kilda (and the other four lowly teams) more than at first glance.

History, like with free agency, would suggest the advantage might ultimately rest with the successful rather than the unsuccessful teams.

It's not about gaining the right to do pick swaps with other clubs for handing over unused salary cap.

Im pretty sure it would be as simple as- if a team wanted to forfeit $x of their salary cap, then the AFL would in return give them "x" draft pick.

"the League is open to introducing pick purchasing, allowing clubs to use their salary cap money in exchange for draft picks"


Same as they do with RFA compo picks- the league simply invents a new pick and pushes all picks after it down one.

Presumably we are in the box seat to win from this as we are sitting on a mountain of cap space that no free agents or other guns want.

So we'd be able to (if we want to) pay for a higher pick than any other team

 

[botts]

Watch us buy a first round pick and pick up a small defender that can’t kick

 

[The Boar]

We need to buy every pick available to us.
We need to farm out at least one very valuable Over 27 player.
We need to keep Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

unless he nets First Round compo.

Aim:
1 Top 10 Pick.
+1 Top 20 Pick.
2 Top 30 Picks.

Four selections in the first 30. We need to speed this up before Tasmania, repeat in 2025 Draft.

 

[jimmytigs]

Yeah that's also my thinking but I think id still do 2 1st rounders depending on where they sit. I saw a poll on one of the saints insta fan pages asking if you would trade Row for 2 top 10 picks and the majority of people said no which surprised me ahahah. why tf wouldn't you

wouldnt be taking much notice of such polls,last year amid that shiel lunacy i had idiots telling me they didnt even care about a pick coming back to us,they were all in on giving up the touted pick 13 or 14(wilson)for shiel

then there was the saints greatest ever 23 poll,with respect to players no longer with us & some not living a full life,i wont individualise,but fair to say my hecken goodness & yes i spelt out hecken,no need for auto correct

id rather come here and be a small fish non idk & cop a bit of ridicule from time to time,than hang out with those nuffies

btw i think your thinking is constructive and good,trouble is we dont have a lot to hang our hats on,marshall is one thing we do have,imagine selling off marshall,watching him take essendon to a flag,while we have hunter and coffield mark 2 running around for us,i know we need to take a shot at something somewhere,but it could be devestating

but your idea and thinking is constructive and good

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

Surely there will be parameters around it.

For example a booster club can't get free NGA's AND extra frdps, or a team that has received free pick like North can only purchase a second rounder etc.

Bassett has been leading the charge on the AFL booster clubs getting free top end talent year in year out while the rest get scraps.
It would be designed to help the non booster clubs who are permanently mid table.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's not about gaining the right to do pick swaps with other clubs for handing over unused salary cap.

Im pretty sure it would be as simple as- if a team wanted to forfeit $x of their salary cap, then the AFL would in return give them "x" draft pick.

"the League is open to introducing pick purchasing, allowing clubs to use their salary cap money in exchange for draft picks"


Same as they do with RFA compo picks- the league simply invents a new pick and pushes all picks after it down one.

Presumably we are in the box seat to win from this as we are sitting on a mountain of cap space that no free agents or other guns want.

So we'd be able to (if we want to) pay for a higher pick than any other team

Call me cynical.
If it works to the advantage of the lower clubs, great.
But nothing in this era of equalisation would support that.
Perhaps best illustrated by the Orwellian quote from Animal Farm (slightly butchered to fit the analogy):


“All clubs are created equal but some are more equal than others”.

 

[Joffaboy]

Call me cynical.
If it works to the advantage of the lower clubs, great.
But nothing in this era of equalisation would support that.
Perhaps best illustrated by the Orwellian quote from Animal Farm (slightly butchered to fit the analogy):


“All clubs are created equal but some are more equal than others”.

Yes that is a real issue.

I understand totally your cynicism, I am hoping the pressure Bassett has put on re the booster clubs constantly getting free top end picks at the expense of the other clubs has something to do with this.

However with the AFL they will skew it to their favoured clubs and get their client media like Russell and Whately to spread their propaganda.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Pick purchasing will have nothing to do with the afl handing out picks. It’ll be a negotiation between clubs as occurs in trade week.

Club A (Sydney) is maxing out its salary cap. Player x and y are out of contract. To retain said players club A will need to pay those players amounts over and above the assigned cap to the tune of an extra $1m (for each of the next 3 years)

Club b (St Kilda) has that space in their cap. Club A offers club b one of their draft picks. (I.e. a 2nd round pick) to utilise that space in club B’s cap for the 3 years.

The challenge I see is not a lot of clubs will be needing to frequently spend over the cap and there will be quite a few lower clubs who don’t pay out their cap. Therefore I don’t think clubs buying cap space will have to give up particularly high picks. I think it’ll be unlikely clubs will be giving up 1st round picks for the privilege.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Surely there will be parameters around it.

For example a booster club can't get free NGA's AND extra frdps, or a team that has received free pick like North can only purchase a second rounder etc.

Bassett has been leading the charge on the AFL booster clubs getting free top end talent year in year out while the rest get scraps.
It would be designed to help the non booster clubs who are permanently mid table.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

To me it seems a floored system and TBH just another very deliberate step towards the Americanisation of AFL.
Bottom teams won't part with top 10, let alone top 5 picks as it's what eventually gets you out of the bottom of the ladder and wealthy clubs get around the SC anyway so l struggle to see where the tangible benefits are going to come from.

Let's not pretend the AFL give a crap about evening the comp. That would be silly.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Call me cynical.
If it works to the advantage of the lower clubs, great.
But nothing in this era of equalisation would support that.
Perhaps best illustrated by the Orwellian quote from Animal Farm (slightly butchered to fit the analogy):


“All clubs are created equal but some are more equal than others”.

Love your avi mate.

 

[StFly]

To me it seems a floored system and TBH just another very deliberate step towards the Americanisation of AFL.
Bottom teams won't part with top 10, let alone top 5 picks as it's what eventually gets you out of the bottom of the ladder and wealthy clubs get around the SC anyway so l struggle to see where the tangible benefits are going to come from.

Let's not pretend the AFL give a crap about evening the comp. That would be silly.

What does the floor have to do with system? I mean, I get they have to stand on it, but come on, it's better that flat surface than the dirt underneath it, cause then they'll track mud everywhere from all their previous dribbling at that house....

I do agree with the overall sentiment though, it shall be flawed, and not the diamond the proponents of might be seeking.

 

[ScrappyDo]

What does the floor have to do with system? I mean, I get they have to stand on it, but come on, it's better that flat surface than the dirt underneath it, cause then they'll track mud everywhere from all their previous dribbling at that house....

I do agree with the overall sentiment though, it shall be flawed, and not the diamond the proponents of might be seeking.

Funny, l would never do that in an email yet l do it here all the time. I think my brain just goes into idle mode when I'm on here.

 

[gringo2011]

I put this in the list management thread but maybe this one is more active.

I know this will be a very unpopular opinion and I understand why. But what would people think about trading Rowan Marshall if we were to get 2 top 10 picks for him? As much as I have love him and would hate to see him play for another team, I think the ruck position can be filled by a younger ruck not getting a game on another list e.g. Nick Bryan and Ned Moyle or someone along those lines. The last few premiers have had Darcy Cameron (got for nothing), Rhys Stanley (not overly good), Max Gawn (an exception to my point), Toby Nankervis (got for nothing) and Jordan Roughead (pick 33, nothing amazing). My point is by getting 2 top 10 picks for him, we could finally combine all 3 top 10 picks to draft some A-grade talent as our midfield is what is killing us the most. Getting his big contract off our books, in combination with our already huge war chest, means we can pay a Nick Bryan or Moyle slightly more than other clubs whilst still having a massive amount to spend on someone like LDU next year. Again, I love Row and he's one of the only ones that tries every single week, but he's turning 29 this year and realistically won't be apart of a saints premiership and he may as well try and enjoy some success. Pls don't rip me apart

(Edit: I only said 2 top 10 picks as I saw a poll where the majority of fans said they wouldn't accept that trade so wanted to see what some actual fans thought. I think he's worth more pick 7-10 and a mid-late teens pick)

Sides taking a 29 year old ruck are sides about to make charge for a flag and they generally don't have high picks.

I think it would be a hard sell in a down year. He's the only Saints player to look close to the AA squad this year and it's very unlikely we go into 2025 looking like we are on the right track. I'm not sure we have positioned ourselves to make bold unpopular moves.

 

[gringo2011]

It's not about gaining the right to do pick swaps with other clubs for handing over unused salary cap.

Im pretty sure it would be as simple as- if a team wanted to forfeit $x of their salary cap, then the AFL would in return give them "x" draft pick.

"the League is open to introducing pick purchasing, allowing clubs to use their salary cap money in exchange for draft picks"


Same as they do with RFA compo picks- the league simply invents a new pick and pushes all picks after it down one.

Presumably we are in the box seat to win from this as we are sitting on a mountain of cap space that no free agents or other guns want.

So we'd be able to (if we want to) pay for a higher pick than any other team

That would be crazy. The top teams get more cap space and then the bottom teams give up picks in the draft to take on burden. It would just serve the top clubs and punish the rest.

The only way it make sense is if a side like Sydney want to re-sign Rowbottom, they go to a club like the Saints and offer us a pick or a player to pay his contract for them outside the cap.

Or like what GC did with Geelong taking over Bowes long legacy contract to free up space and for them and in return they received Goldy's first round pick.

 

[gringo2011]

We need to buy every pick available to us.
We need to farm out at least one very valuable Over 27 player.
We need to keep Josh Battle unless he nets First Round compo.

Aim:
1 Top 10 Pick.
+1 Top 20 Pick.
2 Top 30 Picks.

Four selections in the first 30. We need to speed this up before Tasmania, repeat in 2025 Draft.

Lethlean ****ed our list. We now have no fat to trim off. If we cut hard we will become a bottom 4 side. We need to start moving those 30s and 20s picks in a bit and honing rather than bulk change.

Ross, Membrey, Webster, Campbell etc are all going to fall out the other side soon. We need to replace those guys as it is and Gags and Lethers stuffed that group who should be moving up into that age group to replace them. We are going to have to add some like Stocker and Bonner on the cheap because Lethers sacked them and replaced the mid age bracket at the expense of the draft.

 

[CursingFijian]

Lethlean ****ed our list. We now have no fat to trim off. If we cut hard we will become a bottom 4 side. We need to start moving those 30s and 20s picks in a bit and honing rather than bulk change.

Ross, Membrey, Webster, Campbell etc are all going to fall out the other side soon. We need to replace those guys as it is and Gags and Lethers stuffed that group who should be moving up into that age group to replace them. We are going to have to add some like Stocker and Bonner on the cheap because Lethers sacked them and replaced the mid age bracket at the expense of the draft.

I’m pretty sure Ross Lyons new found commitment to playing draftees, and persisting with out of form youth, (and against the backdrop of the recruiting team changes) speaks directly to our intention to cut hard again.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m pretty sure Ross Lyons new found commitment to playing draftees, and persisting with out of form youth, (and against the backdrop of the recruiting team changes) speaks directly to our intention to cut hard again.

I think we are a better side than our ladder position and the fans are getting impatient. I can't see them going too hard. 5 or 6 seems the average turn over and you'd expect the same again.

I'd say Jones, Clark, Paton, Byrnes, Membrey, Hayes, Sharman, Campbell, Heath, Allison, Ross, Bonner, Mclennan are where the list changes come from and now that Battle has gone on this long I think they're going to **** it up holding out too long and he'll probably go somewhere else for money. Howard or Zlugger might also be in the sights if we could upgrade to a better FB.