List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[Saintos The ITK]

If Battle does leave, I will feel sorry for whatever gets drafted with that pick.

The expectation already is that pick must be an elite, A grade midfielder who will domaine for years and be the main reason our midfield stops being mediocre.

Hehehe no pressure

 

[Coconut_twirl]

I would be deeply disappointed.

I believe in second and even third or fourth chances on occasions but Thomas is on about his 6th go at it now. The guy's has only demonstrated to date that he's a total scumbag.

Doubt it happens. Sponsors would definitely raise their eyebrows.

 

[akaifu]

If Caldwell played for us, you just hope he would have broken out 2 years ago.

No one knows what his career and output would have been, and it's dumb to pretend otherwise.

You can make an estimation by observing why he’s broken out this year. Clearly his output increased with increased midfield time.

We would’ve given him this midfield time immediately. He may not have been as good as he is now, but it definitely would’ve correlated to improved performance

Dumb to think that these estimations cannot be made

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Doubt it happens. Sponsors would definitely raise their eyebrows.

Not to mention all the work we've done building our AFLW following (which is one of the highest memberships in the AFL from memory)

 

[SaintsSeptember]

First analysis of the below.
We are better off rookie picking young untried players, than taking cast of former high draft picks from other clubs.

Player: Situation : Hopefully still playing. : Years of service.

Higgins 25: Traded at 22 , Good player with potential upside. 2029 , 3
Steele 28 : Traded at 21 , Top level player. , 2026 , 7
Henry 22 : Traded at 22 , Good with potential for excellence, 2032 , 1
Membrey 21 : Delisted Free , Has been an excellent player, 2025 , 10

Windhager 21 : Drafted , Good player with lots of potential . 2033 , 3
Collard 19 : Drafted , All or nothing , 2035 , 1
Ross 32: Drafted. Became very good at his best , 2024 , 12
Wanganeen-Milera 21 rafted, One of our best players , 2033 , 3
Owens : 20, Drafted , Good with huge upside , 2034 , 3
Clark : 25 , Drafted, Very patchy, might improve a bit, 2029 , 7
King : 24 , Drafted , Good on the right day. , 2030 , 6
Byrnes : 23, Drafted, Useful and still improving . 2031 , 5
Keeler : 20 , Drafted , All or nothing , 2034 ,2
Wilson : 18 , Drafted , Usefull and huge upside., 2036 ,1
Hastie : 18 , Drafted , Showing signs that he's a keeper , 2036 1
Phillipou :19 , Drafted , possibly a top player , 2035 , 2
Battle :25 , Drafted , Obviously good enough, 2029 , 7
Shoenmaker 19Drafted, Very good signs , 2035 , 1
Webster 31 , Drafted , Mr Reliable , 2026 , 13
Allison 22 , : Server IP Address Could Not be Found.
Van Es 20 : Drafted . Suffered from injury but time is on his side. 2034, 2
Paton 25 : Drafted. Has been fair to middling. 2029, 7.
Garcia 19 : Drafted. Very promising and not lost at AFL level, 2035,1
Hotton 19 : Drafted, slow progress, but still only 19. 2035, 2

Jones 29: Traded in at 26. Very ordinary. 2024 , 3
Crouch 32 : Traded in at 27. Top level player, solid contribution. 2025 but probably not. 4.
Hill 31 : Traded in at 27. Top level player. 2027 , 4
Stocker 24: Mature Rookie at 23 : GOP . 2031 , 2
Dow 24 : Traded at 24 : GOP , 2030 , 1
Butler 28 : Traded at 24 : Good to average . 2026 4
Howard 28: Traded at 23 : Good to average. 2026 5
Cordy 27 : Free agent at 26 , Depth, 2027 ,2
Wood 30 : Rookie at 27 , Has been good , 2026 , 3
Bonner 27: Delisted Free , OK ish.. , 2027 , 1
Campbell 32: Delisted Free at 29 , depth, 2025 , 3

Hayes 27 :Untried mature rookie at 25 , OK but injured , 2024 , 2
Marshall 28 : Rookie at 20 , Excellent player , 2026 , 8
Sinclair 29 : Rookie at 20, Excellent player, 2026 ( please ) , 9
Hall 22 : Rookie at 22. No idea. 2032 , 0
McLennan 20: NGA Rookie. He looks like he might make it. , 2034 , 2
Heath 21: Rookie at 18. Seems to be developing nicely. 2033 , 2
Sharman 24: Rookie at 20. Good with more potential. 2030 , 4
Wilkie 28 : Rookie at 23. Excellent player. 2027, 6
O'Connell 21 : Irish rookie with some promise. 2033, 0
Caminiti 20 : Rookie at 19. Very very promising. 2032 , 2

 

[stavro#4]

Cairnsman

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You can make an estimation by observing why he’s broken out this year. Clearly his output increased with increased midfield time.

We would’ve given him this midfield time immediately. He may not have been as good as he is now, but it definitely would’ve correlated to improved performance

Dumb to think that these estimations cannot be made

Dumb to think that the best development is always just "throw them in the guts".
His coaches who are there when he is training would be fully aware of his capability.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Dumb to think that the best development is always just "throw them in the guts".
His coaches who are there when he is training would be fully aware of his capability.

Essendope’s mismanagement of their talent kids has been almost as bad as ours was in the 2013-2020 period.

They have consistently had top 10 picks & cooked a fair proportion of them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Joffaboy]

Cairnsman

The trade Max meme is taking shape.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

Cutting someone because he doesn't want instant success is exactly what St.Kilda do though.

Ross and Basset have clearly had discussions before joining forces about doing this slow, deliberately and correctly. Instead of just rushing out and getting some more Zak Jones' onto the list.

He was brought in to rebuild the club though. It's crazy how when we should have been rebuilding we topped up. Now we ready to top up the same people want to bottom out. No-one wants more Zak Jones types. I was never on board for topping up but now that we have done a bulk of work we need to start moving forward. Clubs do a few years refreshing and go again. We are going to be in a 25 year rebuild with no path forward or time line and excuses will be there as usual.

 

[akaifu]

Liam Reidy re-signed for one year at the Dockers. Could’ve been a cheap backup option to free up Marshall

 

[akaifu]

Dumb to think that the best development is always just "throw them in the guts".
His coaches who are there when he is training would be fully aware of his capability.

Except he was doing fine as a mid when they played him there part-time the past 2 years. Clearly the main factor holding him back was the lack of full time clock behind Merrett, Parish, Setterfield, Shiel etc.

 

[gringo2011]

What is the likelihood of my plan failing compared to yours? Yours has a 3 year window before everything is almost guaranteed to go to shit for at least 5 years. Guaranteed

I didn’t say we had to go pay for Butts types, I’m saying if we don’t have faith in Arie etc to step up then we can, and we can afford to. We have Cole Hofmann and Peckett coming through, alongside the 2 top 10s assuming Battle leaves. Plus the Sandy rookie. That’s already 6 draftees, before we even think about trades such as Paton Membrey etc. Our list space is already bulging

Yes, Lalor and Draper could end up fails, but didn’t you just say:

So whether it’s your strategy or mine, both require that we draft well

Yours has no time frame or end game so you can just put off any chance of success for ever in a forever rebuild. This club is success starved because no-one at the club ever has any pressure on them. If they have no timeline or structure to their plan it will fail like every other one.

I'm not even sure what you have different other than losing Battle anyway but having one more first round kid on the list. Not sure how mine costs us any chance of being any good for 5 years. Seems like nonsense.


So we have like 30 kids under 22 on the list and then what?

 

[Captain Paddy]

Yours has no time frame or end game so you can just put off any chance of success for ever in a forever rebuild. This club is success starved because no-one at the club ever has any pressure on them. If they have no timeline or structure to their plan it will fail like every other one.

I'm not even sure what you have different other than losing Battle anyway but having one more first round kid on the list. Not sure how mine costs us any chance of being any good for 5 years. Seems like nonsense.


So we have like 30 kids under 22 on the list and then what?

We put out a road to 2020 plan or something when Richo came in and it included three flags.

There is pressure on everyone but just rushing timelines because we were previously shit doesn't do anything for the future. That is such backward thinking


Guys we have been bad for so long, we can't take the time to build this thing correctly we have to go NOW NOW NOW

 

[gringo2011]

Signing Crouch over Caldwell is another example of aiming for the 2-3 year window instead of the 10-forever style Geelong window.

4 seasons in and Crouch is cooked, our midfield is still terrible and Caldwell is just coming into his own in year 6.

With career high averages in
Disposals
marks
tackles
clearances

Essendon have 6-8+ more years of Caldwell and we've got to find a Crouch replacement.

Terrible decision

We needed Crouch then and as a free hit FA he was very much worth the spot. We should have been drafting mids with picks instead of giving up picks for recycled players when we had just lost a lot of older players and had a really thin group of kids on the list. We needed both kids developing and a player to bridge the gap.

List management is cyclical. You need to keep bringing through youth always and you need to cover future holes. All the same dickheads on here used to jack off to Gags when he ****ed the list and now you guys are all cheerleading going backwards again.

 

[TheJackal]

They also had arguably the greatest player in the modern era.

A midfielder who ALWAYS showed up on the big stage.

Just a tiny little detail that needs to be added

Ease up Tiger, Josh Caddy wasn't that good...

 

[Captain Paddy]

He was brought in to rebuild the club though.

Was appointed late Oct or November from memory.

So he's had 18 months at best.

You're right, lets turn the blow torch on him. In 18 months he's only take us to the finals once and we lost. SACK HIM

 

[gringo2011]

We put out a road to 2020 plan or something when Richo came in and it included three flags.

There is pressure on everyone but just rushing timelines because we were previously shit doesn't do anything for the future. That is such backward thinking


Guys we have been bad for so long, we can't take the time to build this thing correctly we have to go NOW NOW NOW

They didn't have a time line, they had a guy who wasn't a recruiter and timed bottoming out as the 2 new clubs entered. There was nothing in that road to 2020 that was a plan. It was a hope. We had a pretend football department even.

You are about to time it so if it ****s up it coincides with Tasmania coming in. We will be back to Richo's road to nowhere if they get this wrong.

 

[gringo2011]

Was appointed late Oct or November from memory.

So he's had 18 months at best.

You're right, lets turn the blow torch on him. In 18 months he's only take us to the finals once and we lost. SACK HIM

We sacked Ratts off the same kind of performance. I've said he gets next year but if he can't move us forward we need to look at options.

 

[gringo2011]

You can make an estimation by observing why he’s broken out this year. Clearly his output increased with increased midfield time.

We would’ve given him this midfield time immediately. He may not have been as good as he is now, but it definitely would’ve correlated to improved performance

Dumb to think that these estimations cannot be made

Caldwell has a had a lot of injury issues that have held him back. He would be handy now but he's also on massive coin and I don't think we could have afforded both. We really should have drafted in our own.

 

[gringo2011]

Dumb to think that the best development is always just "throw them in the guts".
His coaches who are there when he is training would be fully aware of his capability.

They have a couple of prime mids that take a bulk of the midfield work in Merrett and Parish. He was having to fit around them. Parish missing a lot of games this year allowed him to get time on ball and improve drastically.

 

[Saintbloke]

He was brought in to rebuild the club though. It's crazy how when we should have been rebuilding we topped up. Now we ready to top up the same people want to bottom out. No-one wants more Zak Jones types. I was never on board for topping up but now that we have done a bulk of work we need to start moving forward. Clubs do a few years refreshing and go again. We are going to be in a 25 year rebuild with no path forward or time line and excuses will be there as usual.

Not sure if a rebuild was on Bassat's mind- he clearly wants success asap and was not happy with Ratten on various fronts, and is a Lyon fanboy. I think bringing Lyon in was for a hopeful quick turnaround number one, and the rest..well..

 

[gringo2011]

First analysis of the below.
We are better off rookie picking young untried players, than taking cast of former high draft picks from other clubs.

Player: Situation : Hopefully still playing. : Years of service.

Higgins 25: Traded at 22 , Good player with potential upside. 2029 , 3
Steele 28 : Traded at 21 , Top level player. , 2026 , 7
Henry 22 : Traded at 22 , Good with potential for excellence, 2032 , 1
Membrey 21 : Delisted Free , Has been an excellent player, 2025 , 10

Windhager 21 : Drafted , Good player with lots of potential . 2033 , 3
Collard 19 : Drafted , All or nothing , 2035 , 1
Ross 32: Drafted. Became very good at his best , 2024 , 12
Wanganeen-Milera 21 rafted, One of our best players , 2033 , 3
Owens : 20, Drafted , Good with huge upside , 2034 , 3
Clark : 25 , Drafted, Very patchy, might improve a bit, 2029 , 7
King : 24 , Drafted , Good on the right day. , 2030 , 6
Byrnes : 23, Drafted, Useful and still improving . 2031 , 5
Keeler : 20 , Drafted , All or nothing , 2034 ,2
Wilson : 18 , Drafted , Usefull and huge upside., 2036 ,1
Hastie : 18 , Drafted , Showing signs that he's a keeper , 2036 1
Phillipou :19 , Drafted , possibly a top player , 2035 , 2
Battle :25 , Drafted , Obviously good enough, 2029 , 7
Shoenmaker 19Drafted, Very good signs , 2035 , 1
Webster 31 , Drafted , Mr Reliable , 2026 , 13
Allison 22 , : Server IP Address Could Not be Found.
Van Es 20 : Drafted . Suffered from injury but time is on his side. 2034, 2
Paton 25 : Drafted. Has been fair to middling. 2029, 7.
Garcia 19 : Drafted. Very promising and not lost at AFL level, 2035,1
Hotton 19 : Drafted, slow progress, but still only 19. 2035, 2

Jones 29: Traded in at 26. Very ordinary. 2024 , 3
Crouch 32 : Traded in at 27. Top level player, solid contribution. 2025 but probably not. 4.
Hill 31 : Traded in at 27. Top level player. 2027 , 4
Stocker 24: Mature Rookie at 23 : GOP . 2031 , 2
Dow 24 : Traded at 24 : GOP , 2030 , 1
Butler 28 : Traded at 24 : Good to average . 2026 4
Howard 28: Traded at 23 : Good to average. 2026 5
Cordy 27 : Free agent at 26 , Depth, 2027 ,2
Wood 30 : Rookie at 27 , Has been good , 2026 , 3
Bonner 27: Delisted Free , OK ish.. , 2027 , 1
Campbell 32: Delisted Free at 29 , depth, 2025 , 3

Hayes 27 :Untried mature rookie at 25 , OK but injured , 2024 , 2
Marshall 28 : Rookie at 20 , Excellent player , 2026 , 8
Sinclair 29 : Rookie at 20, Excellent player, 2026 ( please ) , 9
Hall 22 : Rookie at 22. No idea. 2032 , 0
McLennan 20: NGA Rookie. He looks like he might make it. , 2034 , 2
Heath 21: Rookie at 18. Seems to be developing nicely. 2033 , 2
Sharman 24: Rookie at 20. Good with more potential. 2030 , 4
Wilkie 28 : Rookie at 23. Excellent player. 2027, 6
O'Connell 21 : Irish rookie with some promise. 2033, 0
Caminiti 20 : Rookie at 19. Very very promising. 2032 , 2

Should always be a combination of both. You can't make up a good side out of just one.

 

[Sully111]

Was appointed late Oct or November from memory.

So he's had 18 months at best.

You're right, lets turn the blow torch on him. In 18 months he's only take us to the finals once and we lost. SACK HIM

Where is that being said?

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure if a rebuild was on Bassat's mind- he clearly wants success asap and was not happy with Ratten on various fronts, and is a Lyon fanboy. I think bringing Lyon in was for a hopeful quick turnaround number one, and the rest..well..

I think Lyon was the right choice at the time because we'd forgotten how to run a football department. He's fixed a lot of structural issues. His game plan at it's worst was horrendous. The worst footy I've seen in years but his best is a good fast attractive brand.

I think his list is better than both Ratts and Richo, he has developed kids at a higher rate than the others but he needs to keep moving forward with momentum. His game seems to lack a bit of buy in and energy at the moment. It's laborious and a bit boring to play I imagine. Hawks and Pies seem to play a very up tempo attacking brand and players seem to want in.

It's more list management I'm concerned about than anything. If Sos and Gubby are there as mates instead of best available it's big issue. Also fitness and training need a good review.