List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[btdg]

Does anyone know how the following Carlton players are going at their clubs.

Setterfield
Dow
Stocker
Carrol
Fisher
Martin

Setterfield = currently injured, fringe 23 at Essendon
Dow = currently minor injury, fringe 23 at St Kilda
Stocker = out of favour at St Kilda, playing reservces
Carroll = unsighted at West Coast, fringe player at best
Fisher = out of favour at North, not in 23 any more
Martin = not yet in Geelong's team. Not injured, but probably will be soon

Kennedy and Owies will join that list either this season or next, too. They are who we think they are.

Not well overall... and sadly all victims of the 'grass is greener' philosophy that it is too easy for players and clubs to fall into.

It is almost always better to be a fringe player for a good team, than it is to be an underqualified starter on a bad team. Almost always starts with a burst of excitement (new toy for the coach), but eventually the reasons the player wasn't first 23 at their old club come to the surface and weaknesses can't be hidden as well. And on a bad team, that's just a recipe to be banished forever while we 'play the kids', or to have them turn over 12 playesr in the off season and bring in another new toy to replace you.

As their original club, we've also lost out - we would be far better off with 3-4 of them still on our list. Setterfield/Dow would be better backup midfield options than Lord and nobody. Fisher is a better forward and option off half back than what we have currently. Stocker would be playing every game this year for us given Newman's injury.

From our club POV, I also think we thought we were being good professionals and doing them a favour. We were "open" about their spot in the pecking order, we gave them a try in another spot, then traded them to a preferred destination. I think we believe we have treated them well; and it can be seen in that light (we certainly haven't treated any badly apart from Kennedy).

But it isn't in their best interests long term. As above, they move on, get found out, and at best end up right back where they started. At worst, their career is ended prematurely.

The art is in adopting a squad mentality - you need 30 guys ready to play, there will always be injuries, and someone like Setterfield is better off being the 5th man going into the midfield alongside Cripps/Walsh. If we want to compete, we need 30 guys ready to go at any given time, and we don't have that right now (and instead are relying on guys like Lucas Camporeale).

We've done this too with players we have recruited - most recently with Haynes, who couldn't get a game last year for GWS (a better team than us). We've recruited him to fill a gap but the reasons he wasn't playing at GWS have become more exposed in a weaker backline.

 

[Shambolic]

Carroll is unsighted at WCE - didnt he go to St KIlda?

 

[The Bighouse]

Alright, things are grim but I genuinely think our list has enough currency to make some shrewd changes and improve next year onward & extend our window. This is what good clubs do, they make finals regularly - overachieve some years, underachieve in the next, fall out of the 8 in others, but what they all do is get busy in the off-season and go again.

I said we should've done it last year, but we need to be bold here - yes that means making calls that may upset the fan base & playing group.

In reality, we desperately need:

2x classy mids - don't have to be speedy if they have the ability to move the ball fast, but speedy preferred.
1x KPD to partner with Weitering
2x small fwds
1x elite ball user off HBF (assuming we continue to ignore Boyd)

Trade:
McKay - surplus to our needs, holds currency. 2x late 1sts is probably realistic - maybe 1x mid 1st + 1x late 1st
Cerra - we need speed & skills, not vanilla. 1x late 1st if we're lucky.
Z Williams - can't believe he's still contracted. would get a late 2nd rounder if we're lucky, but need him off our books.
Kemp - he's not coming on, doesn't help we throw him around. could get a 2nd rounder.

If we finish around 12th, and TDK leaves, that leaves us with a compo pick of around pick 6-7.

So, we'd have (roughly).
Pick 6 (TDK compo)
Pick 15 + 19 (McKay trade)
Pick 20 + 30 (Kemp/Cerra trade)
Pick 40+ (Williams trade)

I'd be shocked if we can't address our needs with the above currency, we probably have to give up far less in reality. Collingwood finished 9th last year with no 1st rounder & no depth, and managed to pull off landing Houston.

These thoughts will probably piss a lot of fans off but, reality is we're not going to improve unless we use the currency we have to address our problems. There's also a lesson in the message that will be sent - we're here to win, not play a few finals, retire & start a podcast with your mate Dan Gorringe.

Retire/Delist:
McGovern - time to go
Docherty - get him in the box asap
Fantasia - unless he makes a miracle return
Fogarty - love him but doesn't cut it, not enough tricks for a premiership small fwd.
Haynes - no explanation required

Best 22 for 2026, would look something like this

FB: Cowan - Weitering - Newman
HB: [new hbf] - [new chb] - Saad
MD: Acres - Walsh - Cottrell
HF: E Hollands - SOS - [new small fwd]
FF: Motlop - Curnow - [new small fwd]
F: Pittonet, Cripps, Smith
I/C: Hewett, O Hollands, [new mid], [new mid]

On the outer/depth:
Boyd, L Campo, B Campo, Durdin, Moir, Cincotta, Lord

Not saying these guys won't get games, but they haven't shown enough to be walk ups next year.

Disclaimer: I understand it's far too early in 2025 to be doing this sort of thing, and it's likely none of this will eventuate, but it's fun nonetheless.

“1x elite ball user off HBF (assuming we continue to ignore Boyd)“

Thought it was injury that has caused Boyd’s absence vs being ignored.
Recurring foot & whatever has happened this pre-season.

Kicking was A1 start of last season > foot injury > 1-wood disappeared on his return with his kicking. Not the greatest defender so not AFL quality if his foot skills aren’t there.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

“1x elite ball user off HBF (assuming we continue to ignore Boyd)“

Thought it was injury that has caused Boyd’s absence vs being ignored.
Recurring foot & whatever has happened this pre-season.

Kicking was A1 start of last season > foot injury > 1-wood disappeared on his return with his kicking. Not the greatest defender so not AFL quality if his foot skills aren’t there.

When he does play, we don’t use him enough.

Hes often playing lock down defender on a dangerous forward, not being our main distributor.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I think you must be confused about how the draft works, because this doesn’t make sense?
We matched Geelong’s bid for Ben at #43 using later picks (what were #63 and #68 before the draft).

For us to draft Gross would have meant passing on O’Farrell.

Forgot the Cats bid on him

 

[The Bighouse]

When he does play, we don’t use him enough.

Hes often playing lock down defender on a dangerous forward, not being our main distributor.

He’ll have to do both if/when selected. Small defender role will oft entail being accountable. Then run-off. But yes, he should be our designated kicker.

We then need to utilise run out of defence, whether that’s Saad (likes to run himself into trouble, or his wrong side), Boyd, Ollie (inconsistent, prone to smothers but improving?), Cowan (not showing kicking smarts), McGovern (a worry full-stop). Therein lies some issues for our play and poor outcomes with our disposal.

Then look into our midfield team and their disposal quality….

 

[RPCB]

Carroll is unsighted at WCE - didnt he go to St KIlda?

Yes.

 

[The Bighouse]

HOF is showing good skills but development ahead
High hopes for Harry Dean as a smoky but again that’s 2-3 seasons away from fruition at AFL level for our KPD/talls assistance
Maybe Ison adds as a defender but see above
M.Carroll to hopefully surprise (and better kicking than the match sim vs STK)
Need a jack out of the box draftee like Charleson to help out as a running defender with his kicking skills added too. More of our players need to be selected knowing they bring superior foot skills to the club.
Dean - Weiters - M.Carroll
Charleson - HOF - Cowan (Ison)
+ OH?

Can Duffy bring an AFL game for a win for our Cat B’s (liked the look of Monahan pre-selection but wait and see on the development - would make a good HFF if he comes good).

Cast the eye over the lower leagues for solid players, like * with Durham, N.Martin (see if Edwards from the WAFL translates to AFL), and MFC have had success.
Only so many picks unfort & a draft order but SSP is made for this, though the balancing act of having solid AFL ready players at your disposal/depth with our usual injury pile on.

Look at drafting players with the skill sets like D.Jones/GWS, Lindsay/MFC that can add some dynamism to our side. Hannily in the MSD was a good pick by SYD outside the ND. Going to have to strike gold wherever we have a selection to bring in a draftee.

 

[The Bighouse]

Wonder if * would like another McKay…?

Buyers remorse..

 

[RAPPA]

Wonder if * would like another McKay…?

Buyers remorse..

Mental fragility at both ends of the ground

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Mental fragility at both ends of the ground

Wouldn't be opposed to moving our McKay to the defensive end.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Wouldn't be opposed to moving our McKay to the defensive end.

I often wonder how Charlie would go at Centre-Half Back ?

 

[RAPPA]

Wouldn't be opposed to moving our McKay to the defensive end.

That’s my preference. Partner with Weitering and do away with the dilemma of being weak down back from a KPD perspective.

Forces us to have a different dynamic up forward.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Carroll is unsighted at WCE - didnt he go to St KIlda?

Well.. would make perfect sense as to why he's unsighted at the Eagles

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I often wonder how Charlie would go at Centre-Half Back ?

Very likely All Australian. But he's staying forward. Far more impactful there for any team.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Jordan Butts really should be a key target for us this off season. Murray, Keane and Worrell are looking good down back for the Crows and he'd be playing every week for us.

Limited player but shuts down his opponent and can go with the real big boys which would free up Weiters massively. Vic boy too and wouldn't cost a fortune.

 

[blues4flag]

IF TDK is out the door...

...would forcing a trade to Geelong for the likes of Mannagh, Close and Dempsey be a win/win?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

IF TDK is out the door...

...would forcing a trade to Geelong for the likes of Mannagh, Close and Dempsey be a win/win?

It's a nice thought, but the chances of Geelong giving up any of those players is next to none. They low ball every club they ever trade with and almost never give up players they want to keep.

 

[Cringle]

IF TDK is out the door...

...would forcing a trade to Geelong for the likes of Mannagh, Close and Dempsey be a win/win?

No wtf

 

[Cringle]

TDK would be up there with current players with the highest trade value atm.

 

[thefrog]

IF TDK is out the door...

...would forcing a trade to Geelong for the likes of Mannagh, Close and Dempsey be a win/win?

Brad Close would be a great get for us, gives elite pressure and can crumb/snag goals

Ollie Dempsey would lock down a wing position for 10+ years

Shaun Mannagh is depth at Geelong and not who I’d be chasing.

Geelong would never let the first two go, especially when Chris Scott doesn’t value the ruck position highly

 

[ForeverForward]

I don't even know where this TDK talk is coming from, have I missed something?

As far as Geelong goes, they have two players under police investigation and the club itself is being looked at by the AFL, media attention is something they will be shying away from in 2025

 

[RPCB]

How often do player for player trades even happen? If TDK does end up at another club, better chance we trade him for three 1st round picks than a player or two.

 

[blues4flag]

No wtf

They're three players who walk into our 22 and fix our speed, depth and forward class problem overnight.

But others are right, Geelong don't lose players that they want to keep.

We can force it into a bidding and get 2 top 10 picks for TDK (we'll get offers from 10 clubs), but it's a weak, compromised draft and we need quality now.

 

[branedotorg]

How often do player for player trades even happen? If TDK does end up at another club, better chance we trade him for three 1st round picks than a player or two.

Can't trade a free agent