List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[JJBagger]

Poor form positing this on a discussion forum, all Opie has done is rate the playing list differently to many here

Nothing to do with the way they rate the playing list. The poster is always nit picking and finding ways to discredit either Voss or the club as a whole. So much so that I would describe it as “troll like”

 

[JJBagger]

I'm in agreeance with a lot he says.
If some of the contracts handed out recently had have been more realistically conservative, the traded players and delistings may have been significantly different.
And for those expecting improvement to come from within to take us to the Holy Grail, I hope you are right. Injuries will have a say in this again despite a new fitness guru....we are Carlton after all.
And you need to add two or three best 22 every season to advance your cause....as per Kevin Sheedy! The best teams from this season have for the best part achieved this. Guess we got Haynes though!

The lions literally added kids from the draft, and by your logic, that turned them from a team that perpetually flopped late in finals series, to an overwhelming premier. We are adding multiple kids this off season, how do you know they aren’t the answer?

 

[tarczonandjane]

This is spot on

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

I think the speed is meant to be Binns and Wilson (plus pick 3), and probably Lord being quicker than Carroll and Kennedy.

Yes… you could shoot holes through that logic. But I think that’s the way the club is viewing it.

I certainly think we could have better addressed the pace issue if we had have kept picks 12 and 14. But it is what it is.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I hope that Marcus Davies

Marcus Davies

Age

33

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.9

2star

K

4.9

2star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.8

5star

kid plays midfield one day.

 

[Tjblues]

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

I understand what you’re saying by I’ll try to counter this point.

We’ve had a very similar list for 2/3 years now. Its shown itself to be a finals worthy list, but not a grand final/premiership list.

The guys who have moved on (Carroll, Kennedy, Owies) all would have played senior footy at points in 2025, but we’ve seen that the sum of it doesn’t add up to us winning #17.

So we need to make some changes, Owies and Carroll are out of contract, Kennedy had trade value, so they become the ones to replace. They are also 3 guys who don’t fix our speed problem.

There’s no guarantees that these moves make us better, but we’ve seen enough to know they probably won’t be the difference between a 6-10 finish and a 1-4 finish

It’s a risk, but it’s a risk worth taking from my view

 

[lopezz]

This is spot on

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

But thats not the point. These players are good but not going to take us forward. We have told them our requirements and they have chosen to find other opportunities. Are you saying we should be selfish and hold these players purely so that we have them as back up?

Doesn't seem like going forward when we will have 4 + 3 list spots to fill and can do that with talented youth.

 

[BigFrizz36]

We've cut depth and haven't done very much to replace it.

Where is the lie in that argument?

It takes a list to win a premiership.

We didn't need Carroll to be a "difference maker" or a "needle pusher " all we need from those spots is loyal foot soldiers and at his worst he fits that descriptor.

Since the start of last season we have added pick 3 (who will be a midfielder), Cooper Lord, and Ben Camporeale. Every chance that all three play a fair few games next year. They replace Kennedy and Carroll. I love Matty Kennedy but it was clear that we need more pace in the midfield. Jack Carroll was either sub or subbed out in a lot of games and it was decided (either rightly or wrongly) that we needed to upgrade his spot.

I'm happy that we don't lose by replacing Kennedy and Carroll with pick 3, Lord and Camporeale in the short term and particularly in the long term. That's what I referred to when I mentioned refreshing the list.

But the real improvement should come from Cerra not being hamstrung and Walsh not suffering the delayed problems with his back. If that happens then look out.

 

[Dramoth]

I hope that Marcus Davies kid plays midfield one day.

Is that before or after we trade in Proud?

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Our depth next year is the health of the squad

 

[Wickzki]

I'm happy that we don't lose by replacing Kennedy and Carroll with pick 3, Lord and Camporeale in the short term and particularly in the long term. That's what I referred to when I mentioned refreshing the list.

But the real improvement should come from Cerra not being hamstrung and Walsh not suffering the delayed problems with his back. If that happens then look out.

The average number 3 pick plays 9 games. You're expecting a lot more than the norm expecting him to replace one of the few on our list that played a full complement of games.

Long-term, absolutely.

If Lord can replicate Carroll's 2024 that would be a success because again long-term the potential is probably higher.

Not sold on what Ben will do next year but there's a sizable gap between your average #3 pick and Kennedy.

In the short term I think we take half to a full a step back on that transaction and gain significantly in the long run but the team needs a boost for 2025 that they're just not going to reasonably get.

Cerra and Walsh being healthy is a monumental difference but both have injury histories that demand we have depth coverage.

 

[Opium]

I understand what you’re saying by I’ll try to counter this point.

We’ve had a very similar list for 2/3 years now. Its shown itself to be a finals worthy list, but not a grand final/premiership list.

The guys who have moved on (Carroll, Kennedy, Owies) all would have played senior footy at points in 2025, but we’ve seen that the sum of it doesn’t add up to us winning #17.

So we need to make some changes, Owies and Carroll are out of contract, Kennedy had trade value, so they become the ones to replace. They are also 3 guys who don’t fix our speed problem.

There’s no guarantees that these moves make us better, but we’ve seen enough to know they probably won’t be the difference between a 6-10 finish and a 1-4 finish

It’s a risk, but it’s a risk worth taking from my view

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm just sitting here wondering if Carroll delisting means they're gonna throw the Cow into the middle over pre season? Got half backs coming out our ears, would love to see him in there as that hard tackling presence with a booming kick.

Cripps
Walsh
Cerra
Hewett/Lord
Cowan
Smith/Draper/FOS/Lalor

That would be an extremely exciting midfield and provide some versatility/rotations to keep everyone fresh.

+Doch, Elijah, Fog etc to chop out when needed

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

A necessary evil. Unfortunately thats just the way list management goes sometimes, Hawthorn booted Mitchell and O'Meara from their team to open up opportunities and its paid dividends. We'd be hoping the same will occur as we bring in some talented kids next year to replace the known quantities who couldn't shift the needle for us.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

I love some of these cut players over the last couple of weeks BUT .... Carlton are serious. We have had enough. I don't know why we persisted with some for so long, but we did and now we are rectifying it.

Quarter of our list ... GONE. The ones that have been or will be picked up by another club ... well, those clubs weren't going to come-a-calling with any trade offer. That's how big the risk is for them and/or how highly these players are rated elsewhere.

Let nobody become too comfortable having a casual game with their mates. Maybe this cleanout will cause the commitment of a couple of others to waver, but if that is what it takes for the rest of the squad to go 'oh shit, they are serious', then what a win for the club.

Every time we sack a coach, we know that the tail is wagging the dog because you can't cut a whole team. But, though many were low hanging fruit, a few have been shocks and players the fans wanted to keep. What a ****ing deep cut for a team who made finals for two years running after a decade out. I stand and applaud the Carlton Football Club for having the balls to wake up the staff, players and fans from their slumber. No more being nice and friendly ... do your friggin' jobs and win football games. The professional players at the club will be loving this.

I think I have to do my part and sign up after ending my automatic rollover.

Carlton Football Club ...

The weak will self select out

 

[JJBagger]

The average number 3 pick plays 9 games. You're expecting a lot more than the norm expecting him to replace one of the few on our list that played a full complement of games.

Long-term, absolutely.

If Lord can replicate Carroll's 2024 that would be a success because again long-term the potential is probably higher.

Not sold on what Ben will do next year but there's a sizable gap between your average #3 pick and Kennedy.

In the short term I think we take half to a full a step back on that transaction and gain significantly in the long run but the team needs a boost for 2025 that they're just not going to reasonably get.

Cerra and Walsh being healthy is a monumental difference but both have injury histories that demand we have depth coverage.

This year, the number 3 pick won’t be an average number 3 pick. This is a crop as ready as any I’ve ever seen to play next year. Lawson Humphries was a pick in the 70’s and ended up a key part of a team that made a prelim this year. It’s all about how you utilise them as much as anything

 

[JJBagger]

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

You’ve simplified this way too much. Our list is only not stronger if no one develops. Having Cerra and Walsh available for a full pre season and season makes up for anything we’ve lost with Kennedy and Carroll. Plus if we can develop some of the younger guys, as well as get improvement from the 3rd to 6 year players, it’ll be fine

 

[Lace_Out]

I understand the Marchbank, Cuningham and Martin delistings. 11 games total combined. All three very injury prone. You can replace that with ease.

I understand the delistings of Akuei, M Carroll, S Durdin and Mirkov. They're all either injury prone, lacked development or both. Sorry lads, all the best.

I understand the Owies decision as much as it hurts.

I begrudgingly accept the Kennedy trade

The way I look at it, Carroll aside, we've already cut 3 players off the team - Owies and Kennedy who were best 22 and the trio of injury prone who gave you half a season.

In totality, it's 9 list spots total.

We've gutted the list of depth which was our strength in our run to the preliminary final in 2023.

Re-signing Jack Carroll was an absolute no brainer.

It's just dumb. A step too far.

Sounds like the club are expecting others to be ahead of him from rd 1, or close to. And perhaps they feel they've seen his ceiling.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Lace_Out]

10 changes so far. Who would have thought


PS if someone had of offered a bag of chips for Young it would have been 11

I like it too. We desperately needed a list regeneration.

Backs up what someone was telling me (one of Sayers best mates). In fact it puts an apostrophe on it.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Yubby]

I can see both perspectives as its a fine line between depth that has experience, that will challenge players in the best 22 to be on top of their game to retain their spot, and give fresh talent a look in and pathway. I don't hate the changes or like them but it is these tough decisions that often set the good clubs apart. I imagine we will bring in a bit more experience through the rookie draft and preseason supplement scheme to balance things back out.

 

[BigFrizz36]

The average number 3 pick plays 9 games. You're expecting a lot more than the norm expecting him to replace one of the few on our list that played a full complement of games.

Long-term, absolutely.

If Lord can replicate Carroll's 2024 that would be a success because again long-term the potential is probably higher.

Not sold on what Ben will do next year but there's a sizable gap between your average #3 pick and Kennedy.

In the short term I think we take half to a full a step back on that transaction and gain significantly in the long run but the team needs a boost for 2025 that they're just not going to reasonably get.

Cerra and Walsh being healthy is a monumental difference but both have injury histories that demand we have depth coverage.

The last 10 pick 3's have been;

2014 Angus Brayshaw - 21 games in 2015
2015 Callum Mills - 22 games in 2016
2016 Hugh McCluggage - 18 games in 2017
2017 Paddy Dow -20 games in 2018
2018 Isaac Rankine - 0 games in 2019
2019 Luke Jackson - 6 games in 2020
2020 Will Phillips - 16 games in 2021
2021 Finn Callaghan - 5 games in 2022
2022 Harry Sheezel - 23 games in 2023
2023 Jed Walter - 14 games in 2024

I didn't do the list to make a point but rather to show the class of the players involved. Take Rankine out , who was injured for most of 2018 with a hip injury and hamstrings, allow a bit for Jackson being a young ruckman and Walter being a KPD and it's not too hard to see a 15 game minimum player in 2015 coming in. That's Carroll replaced then.-

 

[HarryFlashman]

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

You’re right that the return on the 3 players is minimal but u also answered your own question with the depth - it’s coming from Wilson/Moir/Binns/Lord.

12 & 14 vs 3 is going to be a debate for years - especially given that the comparable range will be 12-18.
Any of those 7 players develops as a gun the argument will seem solid.
But in this draft, with the way the top 4 are projected, their ceiling is taken as higher.

The bet is 1 of the 4 will be better than 2 of the 7 - that’s a line ball bet with odds against pick 3 - but u throw in the higher ceiling & that all the top 4 is rated so highly, it’s a safer play to take the pick 3 option.
It’s dicey either way - but I really believe they think they will land a gun with 3.

How we use our depth I think is the kicker - IMO they have to be given the opportunity early, if they succeed we will look like geniuses, but if they don’t, they have time in the 2s to grow & work up to another crack.

If we don’t give them the opportunity and then need coverage through the season we could be exposed badly.

Big difference between a young player having confidence shown in them VS needing them to step up to cover with a bare shelf behind them. Completely different level of pressure to perform.

We need to improve in a number of facets of the game, list management & player development being a big one - we haven’t done it well of late.

 

[HarryFlashman]

The last 10 pick 3's have been;

2014 Angus Brayshaw - 21 games in 2015
2015 Callum Mills - 22 games in 2016
2016 Hugh McCluggage - 18 games in 2017
2017 Paddy Dow -20 games in 2018
2018 Isaac Rankine - 0 games in 2019
2019 Luke Jackson - 6 games in 2020
2020 Will Phillips - 16 games in 2021
2021 Finn Callaghan - 5 games in 2022
2022 Harry Sheezel - 23 games in 2023
2023 Jed Walter - 14 games in 2024

I didn't do the list to make a point but rather to show the class of the players involved. Take Rankine out , who was injured for most of 2018 with a hip injury and hamstrings, allow a bit for Jackson being a young ruckman and Walter being a KPD and it's not too hard to see a 15 game minimum player in 2015 coming in. That's Carroll replaced then.-

Nice data to back the argument

 

[Faz 2000]

Jack Carroll is a confusing one. Pick 41 four years back, 20-odd games and most of the this year. What has he not done? Or why are we NOW convinced he can’t do it?

That’s what the sort of pick we got Kennedy for buys you. Feels like we delist a hell of a lot of our second and third rounders after getting exactly **** all out of them.

 

[Warsaw]

Jack Carroll would gave been on the bare minimum salary wise. It's not salary cap related , it's just list spot related. We've allowed ourselves 4 picks at the draft (pick 3, 38 and Camporeale brothers) . And that's after adding Haynes to the list and upgrading Boyd.

If it’s purely about list positions are we allowed to say the quiet part aloud?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Not worried about Carroll at all. He has never proven he is actually capable of playing as a full time mid anyway so we don’t even know if we have lost true midfield depth or just someone who can fill a hole but is miles off the pace at AFL level.
Personally if we are getting that short that we need more then someone to just run through there (Doc, Hollands, Fogarty types) then I don’t think adding Carroll is going to help us win games anyway. I’d prefer to go back to tagging someone and play Cinc.