Charlie Curnow has to be one of the most lethal inside 50 kicks in the comp. Broadly across the field he may not be, but 70 from goal I'm not sure there's many better.
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- Thread starter Aphrodite
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If we could find 2 or 3 really good, really quick genuine forwards we would be right in it. That's the good news.
The bad news is I don't think we have them on our list and I don't think our recruiters have the talent to identify those sorts of players.
I'll name four names in Hawthorn's team to watch this week. Watson, Ginnivan, Hardwick and Moore. If you put them in our side we would be top 4. We also would have beaten Richmond by a fair bit.
Watch them this week. Then compare them to Cottrell, Motlop, Fogarty, Fantasia and Evans. They are in a different league or two.
This is why losing Smith and Hollands has been a massive massive kick in the guts. We can't afford to lose any of our smaller forwards who can half play.
Our recruiting team has gone hard and drafted a big group of D grade forwards. Knowing they had done this, they went and got a heap of half backs.
I does not matter how hard our backs and mids play and how well Voss coaches. This problem is going to hammer us all season.
Teams going taller in defence and flooding the forward 50 is going to make it even worse and everyone knows this. Richmond did this well.
The bad news is I don't think we have them on our list and I don't think our recruiters have the talent to identify those sorts of players.
I'll name four names in Hawthorn's team to watch this week. Watson, Ginnivan, Hardwick and Moore. If you put them in our side we would be top 4. We also would have beaten Richmond by a fair bit.
Watch them this week. Then compare them to Cottrell, Motlop, Fogarty, Fantasia and Evans. They are in a different league or two.
This is why losing Smith and Hollands has been a massive massive kick in the guts. We can't afford to lose any of our smaller forwards who can half play.
Our recruiting team has gone hard and drafted a big group of D grade forwards. Knowing they had done this, they went and got a heap of half backs.
I does not matter how hard our backs and mids play and how well Voss coaches. This problem is going to hammer us all season.
Teams going taller in defence and flooding the forward 50 is going to make it even worse and everyone knows this. Richmond did this well.
I'm not sure about that. The draft isn't compromised really for a few years, so if we load up now we could do it.
I don't think a rebuild is necessary per se, but certainly a refresh is needed. The age of our top liners is something of a concert, but KPPs can play longer and into their mid 30s pretty well, especially defenders. The real concern, though, is Cripps at 30
However, if we can get a couple this year, then a couple next year (Walker as f/s helps) then we could have another go before completely needing a rebuild, which should be after Tassie.
ITCHY EYEBALLS
I see you watching me watching you
Noodles
We need to go hard and try to get some young forwards from opposition sides and get some 3rd and 2nd rounders in and get some through the draft as well.
I hope we stick with Kemp, Curnow and McKay as a forward trio and build around them. I think that is going to work. It's the smaller group we need to get right.
Little guys who are quick, very skilled and read the game at that end of the field really well but are also pretty hard and tough when needed to be.
Problem with our small forwards is they are not forwards and do not read the game and hence don't present and position very well. They lack skills, many miss basic goals and targets and don't have an overhead game. None of them are hard at the contest which is important in modern footy as that end of the ground gets congested.
I hope we stick with Kemp, Curnow and McKay as a forward trio and build around them. I think that is going to work. It's the smaller group we need to get right.
Little guys who are quick, very skilled and read the game at that end of the field really well but are also pretty hard and tough when needed to be.
Problem with our small forwards is they are not forwards and do not read the game and hence don't present and position very well. They lack skills, many miss basic goals and targets and don't have an overhead game. None of them are hard at the contest which is important in modern footy as that end of the ground gets congested.
In any case, we desperately need a couple of hits from our non-premium picks. That's what has hurt us the most, trading back/future picks into the mid teens.
Us taking Kemp, Stocker and maybe Moir - he still has time but we really need immediate impact - as previously highly rated sliders has hurt. Players slide for a reason, and it's not usually because they're actually guns everyone forgot about, it's because there's a reason not to take them higher, but we've traded picks to take them which has hurt.
Us taking Kemp, Stocker and maybe Moir - he still has time but we really need immediate impact - as previously highly rated sliders has hurt. Players slide for a reason, and it's not usually because they're actually guns everyone forgot about, it's because there's a reason not to take them higher, but we've traded picks to take them which has hurt.
- Mar 25, 2019
- 15,770
- 31,897
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- Carlton
Boyd in form
Charlie
Elijah
Thats pretty much it. Any chance your boy Kane Farrell might be coming back to Victoria end of year C4?
Our midfield is fine and our backline is ok.
We fielded the worse forward line I have seen in a Carlton side in 30 years and I've seen some bloody ordinary sides but that forward line was atrocious. I don't think any of the leagues better sides would have been able to win with that group.
I think the problem is fixable but sadly only with recruiting.
- Oct 4, 2015
- 13,434
- 25,238
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We'll never know if he wanted to leave us... Gold Coast are a basket case with no fans, not many wanted to stay there.
I’m actually very positive on Wilson Carroll O’Farrell Charleson White Ollie Elijah Lord O’Keefe Smith Lucas Ben & Cowan
It’s a good group of kids. We just need them coming through and to keep adding to them
It’s a good group of kids. We just need them coming through and to keep adding to them
Mini rebuild is on the cards, we don't have the leg speed or enough players with elite skills to match the better sides.
Also too many flaky performers eg Mckay & McGovern & others.
Cripps & Weitering and Curnow before injury are carrying this team, forward half have too many below average players.
This has been a concern for a while, unfortunately Austin has done very little to address our real needs over the last 5 years
People can focus on coaching (and rightfully so) but between conditional players and or the list having deficiencies, unless we gain buy in now, we could miss the next wave of talent
circusdevil
Debutant
You said they were way off the mark. I said they showed a bit at VFL level. I didn't say you said they were no good or wouldn't make it. We clear now, or do we both need to state our opinions again?
Wilson didn't play midfield when I was watching.
How long until we find 3-4 good forwards and who will be around still?
Cripps doesn't rely on pace. Can easily play another 4 years after this.
Newman
And when Young first arrived, I thought he was an upgrade on Jones (in his first year). FIIK what happened to him after that.
- Nov 21, 2015
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Yep, it’s crucial we really need most of the above group to come on and come on sooner rather than later imo
Imo Voss needs to move some magnets/ change the mix through the midfield/forward part of the ground and real quick. He’s just gotta try something. Otherwise I feel there maybe dire consequences for him sooner rather than later and we really don’t need to be going down that path again.
By the same token, any loss in pace could be exposed more.
But I'm inclined to agree, Josh Kennedy played well into his 30s and Priddis hit career best form in his 30s
Let’s put my few cents worth on the boys approaching contract review.
2025
1. Jack Silvagni…………..surely renewed 1-2 years depending on season’s form
3. Jesse Motlop…………..jury out. In our plans, but needs to earn it. Likely 2 years.
11. Mitch McGovern……For mine Trade for what we can get. Need to shed $’s. Out with conditional.
12. Tom De Koning…….Re-sign if he will. Imperative at the moment
14. Orazio Fantasia…….If his season can match his pre season, can see him going on year by year
15. Sam Docherty………Jury out. Warrior, but has made noises of being over grind. Big chance to retire.
17. Brodie Kemp………..Required player, but may fall out given cap space. 2 years or trade
24. Nic Newman………..If his body is willing sign him up year by year
26. Nick Haynes…………On Thursday, this will be his last year.
29. George Hewett…….May become expendable, but not yet 1 year with triggers for a second.
31. Harry Lemmey…….Slow burn. Needs a big year, but may get renewed 1 or 2 years on need for depth (at least)
32. Matt Carroll (r)…….sign him up for two more years on minimum chips
34. Rob Monahan (r-B).underwhelming first season. Needs a big spike or back to the Emerald Isle
35. Billy Wilson…………..unless becomes a numbers game for list spots likely another year or two.
38. Will White (r)………..yet to be tried at top level. Made of right stuff, skilled and quick. Another year as rookie
39. Alex Cincotta (r)……Will need elevation to main list (or re-rookie) precarious, linked to others. Best guess re-rookie
41. Matt Duffy (r-B)…….likely has two year contract, suspect with us until end ‘26 minimum
44. Francis Evans (r)…..scratching my head. Solid, but limited. Likely delist for me.
2026
2. Lachie Cowan………….sign him up for as long as he will
4. Ollie Hollands………….another 2-3 years for mine
6. Zac Williams……………if his form is OK, year by year on much reduced money.
8. Lachie Fogarty…………form to dictate. year by year maybe unless pushed out during year.
16. Ben Camporeale……expect early extension during ‘25
18. Sam Walsh……………. Needs to find his form, or his big contract may be reviewed. If he returns to best lifetime contract
19. Corey Durdin………….get on the park Durds or you will be done, maybe even early
20. Elijah Hollands……….get it together or all of your contracts will have caveats. Required player
21. Lucas Camporeale….expect early extension during ‘25
22. Harry O'Farrell………..expect early extension during ‘25
25. Jaxon Binns…………….down pecking order, disposal not great and we need to improve. big chance to trade this/next year
28. Harry Charleson (r)..will be extended for two years as rookie
33. Lewis Young…………….likely gone, or rookied if key/ruck depth lacking. (Popular with group)
36. Cooper Lord (r)……….long termer for mine. Re-sign and likely elevate
37. Jordan Boyd…………….hard to assess. Could become a staple or fade away
40. Hudson O'Keeffe (r)..if he can sort his hammies, will be re-signed 1-3 years
42. Adam Saad………………body failing, this contract should see him out.
43. Ashton Moir………………ball is in his court. Hopefully long term extension.
I maintain the list is good. We have no one categorically out of place on a list. A couple ageing who will come under scrutiny and a couple who could fall out based on a numbers game. Suspect one or two may be traded to create list and cap space. Assuming TDK signs on big bikkies, a couple of mid or lower range types likely to make way.g
2025
1. Jack Silvagni…………..surely renewed 1-2 years depending on season’s form
3. Jesse Motlop…………..jury out. In our plans, but needs to earn it. Likely 2 years.
11. Mitch McGovern……For mine Trade for what we can get. Need to shed $’s. Out with conditional.
12. Tom De Koning…….Re-sign if he will. Imperative at the moment
14. Orazio Fantasia…….If his season can match his pre season, can see him going on year by year
15. Sam Docherty………Jury out. Warrior, but has made noises of being over grind. Big chance to retire.
17. Brodie Kemp………..Required player, but may fall out given cap space. 2 years or trade
24. Nic Newman………..If his body is willing sign him up year by year
26. Nick Haynes…………On Thursday, this will be his last year.
29. George Hewett…….May become expendable, but not yet 1 year with triggers for a second.
31. Harry Lemmey…….Slow burn. Needs a big year, but may get renewed 1 or 2 years on need for depth (at least)
32. Matt Carroll (r)…….sign him up for two more years on minimum chips
34. Rob Monahan (r-B).underwhelming first season. Needs a big spike or back to the Emerald Isle
35. Billy Wilson…………..unless becomes a numbers game for list spots likely another year or two.
38. Will White (r)………..yet to be tried at top level. Made of right stuff, skilled and quick. Another year as rookie
39. Alex Cincotta (r)……Will need elevation to main list (or re-rookie) precarious, linked to others. Best guess re-rookie
41. Matt Duffy (r-B)…….likely has two year contract, suspect with us until end ‘26 minimum
44. Francis Evans (r)…..scratching my head. Solid, but limited. Likely delist for me.
2026
2. Lachie Cowan………….sign him up for as long as he will
4. Ollie Hollands………….another 2-3 years for mine
6. Zac Williams……………if his form is OK, year by year on much reduced money.
8. Lachie Fogarty…………form to dictate. year by year maybe unless pushed out during year.
16. Ben Camporeale……expect early extension during ‘25
18. Sam Walsh……………. Needs to find his form, or his big contract may be reviewed. If he returns to best lifetime contract
19. Corey Durdin………….get on the park Durds or you will be done, maybe even early
20. Elijah Hollands……….get it together or all of your contracts will have caveats. Required player
21. Lucas Camporeale….expect early extension during ‘25
22. Harry O'Farrell………..expect early extension during ‘25
25. Jaxon Binns…………….down pecking order, disposal not great and we need to improve. big chance to trade this/next year
28. Harry Charleson (r)..will be extended for two years as rookie
33. Lewis Young…………….likely gone, or rookied if key/ruck depth lacking. (Popular with group)
36. Cooper Lord (r)……….long termer for mine. Re-sign and likely elevate
37. Jordan Boyd…………….hard to assess. Could become a staple or fade away
40. Hudson O'Keeffe (r)..if he can sort his hammies, will be re-signed 1-3 years
42. Adam Saad………………body failing, this contract should see him out.
43. Ashton Moir………………ball is in his court. Hopefully long term extension.
I maintain the list is good. We have no one categorically out of place on a list. A couple ageing who will come under scrutiny and a couple who could fall out based on a numbers game. Suspect one or two may be traded to create list and cap space. Assuming TDK signs on big bikkies, a couple of mid or lower range types likely to make way.g
- Apr 20, 2006
- 9,836
- 13,318
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- Carlton
It’s a funny list of OOC players this season.
For me offer TDK around that $1.1-$1.2mil and hope he stays.
Kemp, JSOS, Hewett, Motlop, Newman and Gov I’d offer unders but hope they stay. None will really shift the dial for us so no huge loss if they leave. (Newman based on age and injury) losing a couple will free up cap space.
The rest will come down to form. Everyone of them would be a chance to be delisted atm; although Carroll did impress me.
For me offer TDK around that $1.1-$1.2mil and hope he stays.
Kemp, JSOS, Hewett, Motlop, Newman and Gov I’d offer unders but hope they stay. None will really shift the dial for us so no huge loss if they leave. (Newman based on age and injury) losing a couple will free up cap space.
The rest will come down to form. Everyone of them would be a chance to be delisted atm; although Carroll did impress me.
JustOneTime
All Australian
- Jul 11, 2023
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Our previous list managers kept drafting inside mids. Now our new list manager is intent on drafting lots of wingers. And then our coach plays them somewhere else than their preferred position.
Lots to be excited about...not!
Lots to be excited about...not!
Rules changes in those years have changed the game. HTB mid-year last season altered the course for quite a few teams.
