Player Watch #21: Callum Coleman-Jones - out for season after suffering Achilles rupture vs CFC on GoodFriday - go well CCJ

[ferball]

Maybe we should have relocated






JOKING IM JOKING

Too soon mate.

 

[Ligma]

Too soon mate.

poor taste in a joke. Crucify me now.

 

[ferball]

Nothin Brady has done at the trade table so far suggests we have a cagey, genius individual on our hands.
This may turn, but it’s all been pretty meh so far.

On balance our list management is much better than it was pre 2019 and the level of talent we have brought in since is significantly better than it was beforehand. Even if CCJ ends up a bust the trade itself netted us two more second rounders in a strong draft. The other trades we've done have all been cheap for players who are speculative but have all shown something at least, except for Sleevo who was basically two second rounders for a pick 6 rising star winner who's played three seasons.

Because of Brady's draft pick trading we ended with Comben and one of Perez or Mahony in 2019. Tom Powell in 2020 and Curtis and Bergman in 2021. All picked ahead of where we had picks at the start of the season. Its not necessarily genius but its good list management during a rebuild.

Alot of the whinging about the CCJ trade seems like people finding one thing to sook about cos they like to sook and don't really have anything substantial to sook about (except our on field performance, which was always gonna suck during the first 18-24 months of a massive, total rebuild.)

 

[Kangaroos techno]

Did you ask why he didn't draft Luke Ryan? : missed VFL look

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Joyce: you can't win em all

you can do that with every list manager. We could ask others clubs why they didn't draft larkey at pick 73 or Zurhaar in the rookie draft.

 

[Clarke is King]

He's 22 guys. Hold your horses.

 

[Ligma]

He's 22 guys. Hold your horses.

ኃጢአተኛ ነፍስህ ከመዳን በላይ ናት እናም ሰላምን ወይም ሥቃይን አታውቅም ፣ የንስሐ ቅዝቃዜ ብቻ አብቅቷል ፣ ምክንያቱም ኃጢአቶችህ ከማንኛውም ተልእኮ የላቀ ስለሆነ ፣ መጨረሻው ቀርቧል ፣ የኃጢአት መር

 

[the flying ham]

On balance our list management is much better than it was pre 2019 and the level of talent we have brought in since is significantly better than it was beforehand. Even if CCJ ends up a bust the trade itself netted us two more second rounders in a strong draft. The other trades we've done have all been cheap for players who are speculative but have all shown something at least, except for Sleevo who was basically two second rounders for a pick 6 rising star winner who's played three seasons.

Because of Brady's draft pick trading we ended with Comben and one of Perez or Mahony in 2019. Tom Powell in 2020 and Curtis and Bergman in 2021. All picked ahead of where we had picks at the start of the season. Its not necessarily genius but its good list management during a rebuild.

Alot of the whinging about the CCJ trade seems like people finding one thing to sook about cos they like to sook and don't really have anything substantial to sook about (except our on field performance, which was always gonna suck during the first 18-24 months of a massive, total rebuild.)

A very detailed and measured post ferbs. Well said.

 

[Le Grille]

A very detailed and measured post ferbs. Well said

I posted this in the BBN thread, I’ll post it here because I want to be clear on what I’m getting at (which I don’t think I have been clear)

“I also need to stress on the CCJ trade I don’t hate it and know that it is way to early to tell but I do wonder what the identification of him as a target was based on. If it was speculative, that’s fine but considering we re sign players on two to three year deals then give a recruit a 5 yr deal seems to me there is something that they see that is can’t miss, what I haven’t really articulated too well and sure some of it is emotion is that I am interested in the plan that green lighted the 5 year deal.”

 

[Le Grille]

I admit I am struggling to get my point across

 

[Party Gull]

If it was speculative

It has to be speculative as his form at Richmond in either seniors or VFL didn't warrant it and his lack of development was concerning. He's clearly got some talent, though talent alone isn't enough.

 

[muttley45]

Wasn't the Carlton DeKoning also a 2nd Rd pick in the 2017 draft ? he seems to be developing a bit quicker than CCJ for a similar type

 

[Le Grille]

It has to be speculative as his form at Richmond in either seniors or VFL didn't warrant it and his lack of development was concerning. He's clearly got some talent, though talent alone isn't enough.

My point is there must be something either in the scouting or analysis that they are seeing because 4 yrs for a speculative recruitment is unusual

 

[Le Grille]

Wasn't the Carlton DeKoning also a 2nd Rd pick in the 2017 draft ? he seems to be developing a bit quicker than CCJ for a similar type

We all accept that timelines aren’t necessarily the same prospect by prospect. And dekoenig looks pretty good. I don’t think it’s fair to compare the arcs at this point

 

[ferball]

My point is there must be something either in the scouting or analysis that they are seeing because 4 yrs for a speculative recruitment is unusual

Honestly it could have just been panic at the thought that in 2022/3 our Ruck stocks could be Edwards and Josh Walker.

 

[Roosurgence]

You need to have a look at the interview CCJ gave when he came across - he made it clear he wasn't moving if Richmond weren't compensated, which is a relatively common thing, especially when someone like CCJ has had a disciplinary incident. People stressing about the sky falling in over the 2022 draft/trade period and we're not even there yet

I think you will find that it’s more PR when they roll out the line of their former team being compensated, but if that was his stance then we should have walked away.

Players play footy, they don’t dictate List Management calls.

This stench of this trade gets stronger each week, considering that CCJ is not even demanding a game through VFL form. Even Xerri was banging the door down last year through strong VFL form.

This myth that Brady is a tough negotiator is definitely disappearing very quickly.

Trading Brown for peanuts and bringing in CCJ for overs is showing anything but a shrewd operator.

 

[hilly]

Joyce: you can't win em all

you can do that with every list manager. We could ask others clubs why they didn't draft larkey at pick 73 or Zurhaar in the rookie draft.

True and I think we could only bring in so many injury-prone flankers who we can teach to be mids.

 

[hilly]

Even if CCJ ends up a bust the trade itself netted us two more second rounders in a strong draft.

I don't follow this - presume you mean Curtis and Bergman but there was a cost.

Summarised version below of what we did after CCJ trade. The draft picks were slightly later due to matching bids etc. As I said elsewhere Brady has done well with in-draft trading and leveraging off not bidding for Daicos and Darcy.

In: Curtis (32), Bergman (36), Archer (52)
Out: Pick 42, Pick 47, Pick 48, our future 3rd

 

[gokangas]

poor taste in a joke. Crucify me now.

It is Easter I suppose.

 

[Zondor]

Yeah that's a third round pick. WE gave up Taz, a third round pick and this years second for CCJ and two second round picks last year, which then delivered Bergman and Curtis. Its not some awesome heist on our part or theirs, its just a complex trade.

A complex trade made by a Bozo that Nonna Francesca could run rings around. There was no need for us to cough up pick 40 and get pick 42 back. Bottom Line. :stern look

 

[Zondor]

We took three second rounders last year one of them from that future third pick you are talking about. We turned a future third round pick into pick 32.

If we finish last this season. which in all likelihood we will, our 3rd rounder this year will be pick 37. Prior to bidding and that. When you take that into account is Rawling the mastermind you think he is? :stern look

 

[Zondor]

I don't follow this - presume you mean Curtis and Bergman but there was a cost.

Summarised version below of what we did after CCJ trade. The draft picks were slightly later due to matching bids etc. As I said elsewhere Brady has done well with in-draft trading and leveraging off not bidding for Daicos and Darcy.

In: Curtis (32), Bergman (36), Archer (52)
Out: Pick 42, Pick 47, Pick 48, our future 3rd

Well said hilly. Of course there was a cost. And it is fair to say that Rawling has performed well with in-draft trading. :stern look

 

[Kangas_11]

I told you we should have kept Cam Joyce. Everyone was too busy pushing him out the door to get Rawlings back. I spoke to Cam the other day and he said he would have walked CCJ to the preseason draft plus he would have got compo for Tarrant. I believe him.

Jesus christ, this has to be a troll. Cam Joyce was a key cog in creating the old, horrendous list that we had before Brady came in.

Also his repeated failed efforts to pay big cash to players made us an absolute laughing stock across the league.

Give me Rawlings over Joyce every day of the week.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

Jesus christ, this has to be a troll. Cam Joyce was a key cog in creating the old, horrendous list that we had before Brady came in.

Also his repeated failed efforts to pay big cash to players made us an absolute laughing stock across the league.

Give me Rawlings over Joyce every day of the week.

You must have been thinking of the pre-joyce era. Joyce had a solid success rate and laid the foundation for this team.

Sure he didn't get those stars in but he had a crack. Dusty would be a North player had it not been for the final hour puma deal.

As for laughing stock...who gives a **** what other supporters or flogs on big footy think about North?

 

[Elroo]

poor taste in a joke. Crucify me now.

You did nail it though!

 

[Kangaroos techno]

We all accept that timelines aren’t necessarily the same prospect by prospect. And dekoenig looks pretty good. I don’t think it’s fair to compare the arcs at this point

He's kicked 1 goal in 4 matches. Averages 8 disposals and 11 hitouts. It's nothing to write home about. Especially when he's playing alongside McKay and Curnow so he's getting a third tall playing on him.

If CCJ was pulling those numbers this board would be calling him useless and wanting Rawlings' head...oh, some are already doing that