Player Watch #34: Jack Graham - MOVED TO WCE - PICK 42 Received

[Spluff]

When Yze was appointed he spoke about getting players back to playing their best roles and Graham made his name playing as a defensive minded midfielder and one thing that we've lacked over the Hardwick era was a midfielder who could run with an opposition midfielder and curb their influence. Graham has a tank and is one of our best gut runners and also has the discipline to stick to a role and nullify an opponent as we saw in the 2017 premiership. He is also tough as we saw in the 2019 prelim where he came back on after busting his shoulder to help get us over the line.

So having said that I wouldn't be against Yze redeploying Graham as a run with midfielder and have him run with an opponent where he can be accountable but can also work off them and get involved in the attacking side of the game. Graham has shown that when he plays that sort of role he can be damaging and have a big impact.

Over the last couple of years though he wasn't played in this sort of role, instead of was stuck on a flank doing a lot of unrewarded running, not really getting involved in the play either defensively or when we had possession, as such the opinion among a lot of supporters is that he is done and dusted and should be shipped off as soon as possible.

Remember Yze stated that he wants us to be defensively strong so that we can build our attack from that. If that is how he wants us to play then IMO Graham certainly has a role to play

He's too slow to tag most players. It worked on Sloane, but everyone else we tried him on who had any pace just burnt him off.

He also can't play midfield alongside TT and Hopper, because then the entire midfield is too slow.

 

[_RT_]

What demise, was he ever that good. In his best years he was behind Martin, Edwards, Prestia, Cotchin, Grigg and Lambert and of late Bolton, Taranto and Hopper. Dow was in the guts over him.

He has gone from 14 disposal per game in 2018, at his supposed peak, to 19 at his best in '21. 6 tackles in '18, to 4 this season.
He had the occasional breakout game.

Yes he added pressure, but the whole team added pressure which was our trump card. We took the comp by surprise and now other sides are doing to us or are playing quicker or more stronger midfields, and our pressure combined with the demise of Cotchin has been ordinary at best. Easy to apply pressure when all are doing it.

Yes he was behind Martin Cotchin Prestia Edwards & co, but it was the role that he played that was so important to how our midfield played as a unit. As I said at his best Graham was the defensively accountable midfielder who thrived in applying pressure and laying tackles at the contest, but then used his gut running ability to link up in attacking chains as we drove the ball forward.

In the last couple of years we've moved him away from that role due to injuries that limited his ability to utilise his running ability like he did during 2017-2021. That is why I'm hoping that Yze recognises what Grahams strengths were and gets him back into playing that role. For mine the defensively accountable run with midfielder is a role we lack and given Yze mantra of being strong defensively to allow our attack to come from that then the likes of Graham become very important.

 

[_RT_]

He's too slow to tag most players. It worked on Sloane, but everyone else we tried him on who had any pace just burnt him off.

He also can't play midfield alongside TT and Hopper, because then the entire midfield is too slow.

One of our biggest issues in the midfield this season was too many easy clearances for the opposition, where they'd simply stream away from the contest and put our back 6 under pressure before they were able to structure up.

I'm not talking about Graham being a straight out tagger, but more an accountable midfielder who can man an opponent at the contest to stop them getting easy possession of the ball and setting the opposition on their way, but can also work over an opponent the other way once we've won possession as his gut running allows him to do.

As for playing alongside Taranto & Hopper, that is where coaching comes into it. Get the mix right and he has a role to play. For mine if you have Graham play as the defensive midfielder and then use a combination of Taranto & Bolton followed by Martin & Hopper you have a mix that combines pure ball winners, breakaway speed & defensive accountability. For mine that makes our midfield better balanced and should stop teams getting on runs against us that start from the middle/around the ground stoppages

 

[_RT_]

Repetitive foot injuries was his demise.

Exactly, when your biggest strength is gut running dealing with an injured foot limits that to a degree. Hopefully a return to full fitness sees him get back to playing his best role.

 

[Grrr]

Yes he was behind Martin Cotchin Prestia Edwards & co, but it was the role that he played that was so important to how our midfield played as a unit. As I said at his best Graham was the defensively accountable midfielder who thrived in applying pressure and laying tackles at the contest, but then used his gut running ability to link up in attacking chains as we drove the ball forward.

In the last couple of years we've moved him away from that role due to injuries that limited his ability to utilise his running ability like he did during 2017-2021. That is why I'm hoping that Yze recognises what Grahams strengths were and gets him back into playing that role. For mine the defensively accountable run with midfielder is a role we lack and given Yze mantra of being strong defensively to allow our attack to come from that then the likes of Graham become very important.

I agree with all of this. His gut running and linking was first class. But he has dropped off quite a bit, still has the occasional very good game. I think on form he will struggle, I for one would have Ross play his role, his gut running has improved a lot hence he ran the wing, but he has a lot more to add offensively. But if Graham has a cracking preseason he may well return to that running role, and good luck to him if he does.

My main argument is when posters try and make him a centre square mid. Not saying you were doing this.

 

[sante]

Why would you want him in future plans? Have you not seen his decline?

His decline has coincided with the teams overall performance

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

Apparently his CD* rating is off the charts.


































































*continental drift

 

[Grrr]

His decline has coincided with the teams overall performance

Like most players who go from playing in good sides to average sides. But the good players don't change much. Martin, Bolton, Taranto, they do it themselves. The bit players, role players, or those with a deficiency often don't cut it in average sides.

 

[Boston tiger]

Like most players who go from playing in good sides to average sides. But the good players don't change much. Martin, Bolton, Taranto, they do it themselves. The bit players, role players, or those with a deficiency often don't cut it in average sides.

Thing is we have dynasty role players still running around that obviously have been playing their roles to perfection but basically our modern day Royce Hart( Jack) has aged and retired. Cotchin our greatest Captain has gone and Dusty isn’t getting any younger.

Can we afford to flick the dynasty role players early?

New coach .. new roles but I bet the dynasty boys get first crack.

 

[Grrr]

Thing is we have dynasty role players still running around that obviously have been playing their roles to perfection but basically our modern day Royce Hart( Jack) has aged and retired. Cotchin our greatest Captain has gone and Dusty isn’t getting any younger.

Can we afford to flick the dynasty role players early?

New coach .. new roles but I bet the dynasty boys get first crack.

I don't want to flick anyone, I just would like to see some of the rusted on players, bottom 6 players whatever you want to call them, join in and rotate through with the young ones coming through.

An playing their roles to perfection is a bit starry eyed, especially when we have finished 12 and 13 two out of 3 years. One would think we will need those dynasty role players to improve or make way. That is pretty normal in footy.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Why would you want him in future plans? Have you not seen his decline?

All role dependent brother. Think he’s a very capable footballer with the right role.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[TigerImposter]

Thing is we have dynasty role players still running around that obviously have been playing their roles to perfection but basically our modern day Royce Hart( Jack) has aged and retired. Cotchin our greatest Captain has gone and Dusty isn’t getting any younger.

Can we afford to flick the dynasty role players early?

New coach .. new roles but I bet the dynasty boys get first crack.

You can have as many dynasty role players as you like, but if you don't have the elites of the ilk of JR8, Cotchin, Martin, Edwards, Rance, etc, etc coming up to fill their void then the list is in trouble. Role players will never reach their levels and will look below what they were with the guns beside them. I still believe JGTI career took a turn for the worse with foot injuries and hence losing a yard bc of it. As previous posters said if he can get back to that fitness of pre 2020 then he could survive and play a role. I still have my doubts he will bc he just looks way too slow, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Livonski]

You can have as many dynasty role players as you like, but if you don't have the elites of the ilk of JR8, Cotchin, Martin, Edwards, Rance, etc, etc coming up to fill their void then the list is in trouble. Role players will never reach their levels and will look below what they were with the guns beside them. I still believe JGTI career took a turn for the worse with foot injuries and hence losing a yard bc of it. As previous posters said if he can get back to that fitness of pre 2020 then he could survive and play a role. I still have my doubts he will bc he just looks way too slow, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Spot on re foot injury. Kept pushing thru it.

 

[richoplzbreed]

Repetitive foot injuries was his demise.

A bit fanciful. He was never really much good a part from the 2017 GF. He hasn't improved and has been a list clogger. The one "breakout year" he finished high in the BnF was more because all our mids missed majority of the year and he played the entire year thus getting the lion share of votes not on the back of any outstanding play.

Prestia averages 4 leg injuries a year, Hopper had 3 leg injuries this year, no one makes excuses for them. 2 years ago Graham stubbed his toe running because he'd heard they'd brought out a fresh tub of lemon chicken at the buffet and he's still getting excuses made about injuries. He could've been traded to Carlton a year prior for the Cerra trade, we'll be lucky to get an end of 3rd rounder for him next year.

 

[Boston tiger]

I don't want to flick anyone, I just would like to see some of the rusted on players, bottom 6 players whatever you want to call them, join in and rotate through with the young ones coming through.

An playing their roles to perfection is a bit starry eyed, especially when we have finished 12 and 13 two out of 3 years. One would think we will need those dynasty role players to improve or make way. That is pretty normal in footy.

How do improve as a role player? Chase kicks ? Ask for your role to be changed. Did Rioli improve or did he just get changed from a crap job as a pressure forward to a plum job as the guy who gets to have a bounce coming out of the backline. ( 3 premierships when he was a pressure forward 0 premierships when he became a star running out of the backline )
A team is strong if the role players hold their nerve and follow instructions to the detriment of their own game if you like.

I’d be asking asking how come our main midfielder is allowed to hack it forward. Instead of worrying who’s the next sucker that going to run all day so Dusty can go where he wants when he wants.

Go the role players.

 

[TigerImposter]

A bit fanciful. He was never really much good a part from the 2017 GF. He hasn't improved and has been a list clogger. The one "breakout year" he finished high in the BnF was more because all our mids missed majority of the year and he played the entire year thus getting the lion share of votes not on the back of any outstanding play.

Prestia averages 4 leg injuries a year, Hopper had 3 leg injuries this year, no one makes excuses for them. 2 years ago Graham stubbed his toe running because he'd heard they'd brought out a fresh tub of lemon chicken at the buffet and he's still getting excuses made about injuries. He could've been traded to Carlton a year prior for the Cerra trade, we'll be lucky to get an end of 3rd rounder for him next year.

Yes , but it’s fantasy that you’re going to win premierships with 23 A graders plus. You only have to look at Collingwood this season and the foit soldiers that the got the job done. Graham was bottom six in 2017 and by 2020 he’d improved to be about 15th overall so he was never going to be the cream on our list , but a donkey engine. Unfortunately injuries set in and he lost a yard. He really wasn’t best 23 this year and he had a lot of mates, but sadly most of the kids didn’t step up or the coaches were just too stubborn to want to implement changes. Yze will hopefully put this to rest and select with the MC the best 23 .

 

[Wooden Robot]

'Role player' has become code for 'non-performance'.

 

[tigerfan1961]

'Role player' has become code for 'non-performance'.

Totally disagree! If he performs a role exactly as he’s being asked by the coaches, how can you define it as a “non-performance”, when you have absolutely no idea what he’s being asked to do?
Just because a player isn’t getting a lot of the ball, or isn’t involved in a heap of play doesn’t mean he’s not doing what’s asked of him.
We are tough judges sometimes. He may well be playing his role poorly but I don’t know that for sure.
Will be an interesting watch on Jack Graham this upcoming season under a new coach and likely different way of playing the game.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

half his problem was he was given preferrable treatment by Dimma.

Not the first bloke to get a good run from a coach, not the last either.

Clear example was this season, missed a huge chunk of the pre-season, no lead up or practice games, straight into the side coming off a foot injury. Terrible selection (not his fault) but also set him up for failure as he was on the back foot from the start of the season. Should've played 2-3 games in the twos to find match fitness and touch

 

[Grrr]

half his problem was he was given preferrable treatment by Dimma.

Not the first bloke to get a good run from a coach, not the last either.

Clear example was this season, missed a huge chunk of the pre-season, no lead up or practice games, straight into the side coming off a foot injury. Terrible selection (not his fault) but also set him up for failure as he was on the back foot from the start of the season. Should've played 2-3 games in the twos to find match fitness and touch

Big bug bear of mine. What of all those young players who have done the extra and slogged their guts out all preseason to hopefully present in the first few games at least, only to be pipped at the post by someone who was largely in rehab all preseason. Good way to separate the playing group, and I think that is how we played for much of the year.

The VFL is treated like a penalty for established players, rather than a place to find form when out of it or coming back from injury.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Big bug bear of mine. What of all those young players who have done the extra and slogged their guts out all preseason to hopefully present in the first few games at least, only to be pipped at the post by someone who was largely in rehab all preseason. Good way to separate the playing group, and I think that is how we played for much of the year.

The VFL is treated like a penalty for established players, rather than a place to find form when out of it or coming back from injury.

AFL need to go back to a reserves league. Changes the stigma of playing 2's for seniors.
Also cleans up the state leagues from being bastardised by AFL teams

 

[Grrr]

AFL need to go back to a reserves league. Changes the stigma of playing 2's for seniors.
Also cleans up the state leagues from being bastardised by AFL teams

Should be no stigma playing VFL anyway, good enough for half the list, good enough for all.

I don't mind the format as is, pretty good level of football with lots of younger players getting a run, on the TV which is good as well.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

AFL need to go back to a reserves league. Changes the stigma of playing 2's for seniors.
Also cleans up the state leagues from being bastardised by AFL teams

Wold also stop me from going through an existential crisis every time we play Port Melbourne.

 

[Grrr]

Wold also stop me from going through an existential crisis every time we play Port Melbourne.

I have one of those every time from memories of playing Port when I was younger.

Those grade 4, 10 year old Port Colt kids were animals.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

I have one of those every time from memories of playing Port when I was younger.

Those grade 4, 10 year old Port Colt kids were animals.

Heh...now I remember you....