5th Test Border Gavaskar Trophy January 3-7 1000hrs @ the SCG

[Borisdog]

At his peak Virat was as good as anyone.

The thing that tarnishes his legacy to me is not so much the diminished average, it’s just how easy it has become to take him out of games. He gets out so consistently fending at balls outside off that he just doesn’t need to play, and has done so for a long time. For a player of his quality to not have fixed that, when all he has to do is let those balls go, is bizarre.

When you compare that to Smith, he got “figured out” by Wagner in 2019, and since then he’s been constantly adjusting to find ways to counteract that approach. His year by year average shows that while he’s never returned to peak levels, he has still found a way to be a consistent high level contributor.

And Wagner showing the way on Smith is now guiding others how to bowl to him.

The way he got out in the first innings in Sydney is going to continue while he continues to mudcrab across the stumps with an "aging eye". He corrected it for a while, but it's back worse than ever now.

He was trying to hit a ball outside his eyeline through midwicket. Anything fullish in that 4-6th stump zone to him he's hitting across the line.

He can't effectively "play the line" of any ball pitched fullish in that zone. He will be hitting everything "inside out" if he tries.

 

[Rabish Binney]

It's interesting this perception, because Cummins (1002 deliveries), Siraj (943) and Starc (920) all bowled extensively in the 5 matches too (Bumrah bowled 908 deliveries).

Yes, I know Bumrah was out of action for essentially one and a half innings of the final Test, but the point is that other bowlers had comparable workloads at least.

In any case, what happened here with Bumrah reminds me of Lillee in the 72 Ashes, where he took 31 wickets, although that was in another league entirely. In five Tests he bowled 1499 deliveries - that's one delivery short of 250 overs, or on average 25 overs in each innings of every Test.

Little surprise that by the end of the tour he was having back niggles, it got worse in the following Australian summer and he broke down completely in the 73 tour of the West Indies. He didn't play again for 18 months.

Don't forget also Sherb, back in those days the touring Australians played against every county as well.

I assume the great DKL may have played in some of these?

I think on the 1977 Ashes tour, the Aussies played a total of 32 first class matches (including the 5 tests).

 

[F6Typhoon]

comparisons between Warner and Konstas arent clear cut according to Channel 9 and SENs Tom Morris. Morris believes Warners aggression was more controlled at the genesis of his career. Konstas is more reckless and out of control

And WTF would Tom the mouth Morris know?
Has he run out of AFL players to pot?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

The Konstas criticism is so annoying. As soon as someone shows some flair every single mistake they make is attributed to them being immature and reckless (even if they score better/more than pretty much any other opening bat of the series).

The rush to push any big personality down is so weird. It's like people don't actually want to be entertained. We want heroes but we also want them to stay inside very specific set of guidelines

 

[Duckimus Prime]

And Wagner showing the way on Smith is now guiding others how to bowl to him.

The way he got out in the second innings in Sydney is going to continue while he continues to mudcrab across the stumps with an "aging eye". He corrected it for a while, but it's back worse than ever now.

A ball that reared up sharply from just short of a good length?

That was nothing like what Wagner bowled to him. Wagner was bowl short at the body with a stacked on-side field.

It was just repeating body line with fielding restrictions. And he should've been called up for bowling too short too often.

 

[grumbleguts]

Yeah, at footy I don't mind it, but 6 hours of it just gives me a headache

Im just old and cranky - sit the **** down and clap politely

Yes. I didn't pay an exorbitant fee to have some idiot give me a headache for 6 hours. It is invasive for thousands of people around them and they don't give a crap.

 

[Wetdog]

2004 v Zimbabwe

The frontline bowlers playing in that test should hang their collective heads in shame that they didn’t take the 10 wickets before Katich was asked to roll his arm over.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yes. I didn't pay an exorbitant fee to have some idiot give me a headache for 6 hours. It is invasive for thousands of people around them and they don't give a crap.

I imagine that’s how anyone near you on public transport feels if you ever get a phone call.

 

[big_e]

The point isn't the pure numbers, it's the aesthetic of a big stadium looking mostly empty.

16,000 in Tasmania looks way better than 20,000 at Perth.

It's the same thing that always gets said when MCG games have 20,000 at them. It's still 20,000, but it looks and sounds fairly bleak in that stadium.

As opposed to the aesthetics of a suburban ground with a tin shed in one corner?

By the way, the real answer here is that Australia should host six or even seven tests per year.

 

[big_e]

Little surprise that by the end of the tour he was having back niggles, it got worse in the following Australian summer and he broke down completely in the 73 tour of the West Indies. He didn't play again for 18 months.

Food for thought for those who insist fast bowlers should play through pain.

 

[Borisdog]

A ball that reared up sharply from just short of a good length?

That was nothing like what Wagner bowled to him. Wagner was bowl short at the body with a stacked on-side field.

It was just repeating body line with fielding restrictions. And he should've been called up for bowling too short too often.

Yeah sorry, wrong innings. Should've been the first. I went back and looked after your reply, and edited my initial post accordingly.

What Wagner showed was packing the legside and bowling straight to Smith pretty much rendered him unable to score with any freedom. Which is smart bowling in my book, and I was surprised it didn't happen long ago, when Smith started the mudcrabbing.

Wagner's bowling was nowhere near "bodyline". For starters the field restrictions brought about by bodyline render that sort of bowling largely ineffective now, although the real major change regarding field restrictions happened 25 years after bodyline. Combine that with the short pitched bowling laws now and you can't continually bounce the batsman, at least not at head height anyways.

Wagner varied his length between throat and ankles, but his line was largely very, very consistent. And not just to Smith.

A right handed bowler, IMO, has an even bigger incentive to bowl that way to Smith.

I'd go as far as to say any more than 1 bloke in front of the wicket to Smith on the offside is a wasted fieldsman, IF you bowl the right line, and Smith continues with this "stance"

Look where his bat is to anything full on 6th stump to legstump line at point of bowler's delivery. There's no way on Earth he can get his bat around his right leg to hit anything there through the off side without playing heavily across the line of the ball.

I'm pretty sure, in fact certain, that Test umpires wouldn't have had a second of hesitation calling Wagner for any of the numerous versions of short or intimidatory bowling against the laws of the game if they thought he was doing so.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Oh look an eastern stater coming from a place of privilege whingeing about the Perth crowds..nothing changes

Few points:

1. The Perth Crowds where up this year thats good and will be again for next year for the Ashes
2. You think taking away the test from Perth is going to increase the crowds for the future of WA cricket ? How is that going to work if you are not promoting the game ??
3. The Perth test is being played during the working period. We don't have the opportunity that you do of having the test played on a public holiday everyear for the last 30 odd years and continuing during the time when people who work and students have time off .......if you want the crowds to increase I guarantee if its played on Boxing Day it would be packed .....but we have not been given that opportunity like you privilege lot do and who just take it for granted year after year ...and then have the arrogance to have a go at other cities crowds...you guys have it pretty good show some respect
4. Honestly how does it affect you the size of the Perth crowd?....you own a TV ..the Perth test is great viewing for the eastern states public after work...the tv networks love it

Finally if you feel so bad about Perth crowds and think it should be stripped...why not come over for the weekend and increase the crowd size ?? Perth stadium is fantastic..Perth is a great city and the south west has a lot to offer

1) Don't care if they were up, they still sucked and are not yet worthy to hold a test IMO.
2) We should sacrifice a good atmosphere just so you can build interest? lol? What's test cricket in WA? grassroots? What about interest in Tassie where they will actually show up to the test match?
3) This is just a flat rubbish and obscenely lazy excuse. Adelaide (6-10 Dec Note School Holidays started AFTER the test in Adelaide) and Brisbane (14-18 Dec) were both also played during the working period, Adelaide was a sell out and Brisbane was rain impacted and STILL got decent crowds when play was on, would have also been jam packed if not for the rain.

The notion that work stops people going to the test match in Perth is complete and utter horse shit. it doesn't stop other states going, so it shouldn't stop you guys either.

4) The crowd atmosphere filters through the TV and adds to the specifical. Perth was rubbish.

I'm supposed to travel from Sydney to Perth cause you guys over there are too lazy to show up in your own state? lol if the stadiums so good, you go to it if you live there?

The only thing keeping the test in Perth is the TV time for EST states, and even then, I'd rather it go to Tassie. It's far better a spectacle than Perth. The rest of that waffle you posted is complete hogwash.

 

[Young Redleg]

You are entitled to your view but you’re bringing politics to every board you post on while you have that avatar.

I’ve not said anything remotely racist. You are pretty dense for going there at all.

It's also very rich of someone to claim to be a progressive while simultaneously justifying violence towards a 19 year old

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The Konstas criticism is so annoying. As soon as someone shows some flair every single mistake they make is attributed to them being immature and reckless (even if they score better/more than pretty much any other opening bat of the series).

The rush to push any big personality down is so weird. It's like people don't actually want to be entertained. We want heroes but we also want them to stay inside very specific set of guidelines

Agree with this however when he is himself and he has his say you can't come out and defend him just because he is 19.
I am all for him being himself, but he must back it up with runs and hopefully he does. He looks to have an infectious personality which is great for the team.
But if you give it out then expect it back with interest and I am sure he does this. It's more the fans who think it's not fair if he gets it back.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

1) Don't care if they were up, they still sucked and are not yet worthy to hold a test IMO.
2) We should sacrifice a good atmosphere just so you can build interest? lol? What's test cricket in WA? grassroots? What about interest in Tassie where they will actually show up to the test match?
3) This is just a flat rubbish and obscenely lazy excuse. Adelaide (6-10 Dec Note School Holidays started AFTER the test in Adelaide) and Brisbane (14-18 Dec) were both also played during the working period, Adelaide was a sell out and Brisbane was rain impacted and STILL got decent crowds when play was on, would have also been jam packed if not for the rain.

The notion that work stops people going to the test match in Perth is complete and utter horse shit. it doesn't stop other states going, so it shouldn't stop you guys either.

4) The crowd atmosphere filters through the TV and adds to the specifical. Perth was rubbish.

I'm supposed to travel from Sydney to Perth cause you guys over there are too lazy to show up in your own state? lol if the stadiums so good, you go to it if you live there?

The only thing keeping the test in Perth is the TV time for EST states, and even then, I'd rather it go to Tassie. It's far better a spectacle than Perth. The rest of that waffle you posted is complete hogwash.

Don't agree with all of this but do agree we don't turn up. Tests should of stayed at the WACA and that should of been changed to 25k. It was a famous ground like Newlands in SA and now its lost to cricket.

As for Optus well it's just not the same for me, I loved the WACA. I understood the downfalls for the patrons but they could of been fixed. Optus is a big concrete jungle and for 6-8 hours it's not for me. As great a stadium as it is. It's a footy stadium and not a cricket stadium for me. many think much differently though.

As for the test in Perth they will argue that we are getting bigger crowds than ever so whats with the complaints?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Don't agree with all of this but do agree we don't turn up. Tests should of stayed at the WACA and that should of been changed to 25k. It was a famous ground like Newlands in SA and now its lost to cricket.

As for Optus well it's just not the same for me, I loved the WACA. I understood the downfalls for the patrons but they could of been fixed. Optus is a big concrete jungle and for 6-8 hours it's not for me. As great a stadium as it is. It's a footy stadium and not a cricket stadium for me. many think much differently though.

As for the test in Perth they will argue that we are getting bigger crowds than ever so whats with the complaints?

At least you are honest about it. Not lying to yourself like that other bloke.

The TV slot is obviously the major reason why it's in Perth due to the EST states tuning in. But just as a cricket punter i think Tassie would be better spectacle.

Perth was crap last year V Pakistan, and a minor improvement this year doesn't justify it IMO. I think Tassie deserve a go. When Tassie took the test off Perth during the Ashes in Covid it was a great event.

 

[Voice of the G]

The point isn't the pure numbers, it's the aesthetic of a big stadium looking mostly empty.

16,000 in Tasmania looks way better than 20,000 at Perth.

It's the same thing that always gets said when MCG games have 20,000 at them. It's still 20,000, but it looks and sounds fairly bleak in that stadium.

I have been at shield games at the MCG with about 150 people, you could hear the banter between 1 of the fieldsman and a spectator.Far better at the Junction oval.

 

[Voice of the G]

Yep Tasmanians are notoriously poor in their support for test cricket, god knows how they’ll be able to maintain an AFL team, particularly one that will struggle to ever get off the bottom of the ladder

Only early days with AFL,lets wait and see.

 

[Gough]

Don't agree with all of this but do agree we don't turn up. Tests should of stayed at the WACA and that should of been changed to 25k. It was a famous ground like Newlands in SA and now its lost to cricket.

As for Optus well it's just not the same for me, I loved the WACA. I understood the downfalls for the patrons but they could of been fixed. Optus is a big concrete jungle and for 6-8 hours it's not for me. As great a stadium as it is. It's a footy stadium and not a cricket stadium for me. many think much differently though.

As for the test in Perth they will argue that we are getting bigger crowds than ever so whats with the complaints?

That's the conclusion I came to looking at it from afar, it looks great for footy but not much chop for the jolly old cricket.

 

[Coach_Required]

1) Don't care if they were up, they still sucked and are not yet worthy to hold a test IMO.
2) We should sacrifice a good atmosphere just so you can build interest? lol? What's test cricket in WA? grassroots? What about interest in Tassie where they will actually show up to the test match?
3) This is just a flat rubbish and obscenely lazy excuse. Adelaide (6-10 Dec Note School Holidays started AFTER the test in Adelaide) and Brisbane (14-18 Dec) were both also played during the working period, Adelaide was a sell out and Brisbane was rain impacted and STILL got decent crowds when play was on, would have also been jam packed if not for the rain.

The notion that work stops people going to the test match in Perth is complete and utter horse shit. it doesn't stop other states going, so it shouldn't stop you guys either.

4) The crowd atmosphere filters through the TV and adds to the specifical. Perth was rubbish.

I'm supposed to travel from Sydney to Perth cause you guys over there are too lazy to show up in your own state? lol if the stadiums so good, you go to it if you live there?

The only thing keeping the test in Perth is the TV time for EST states, and even then, I'd rather it go to Tassie. It's far better a spectacle than Perth. The rest of that waffle you posted is complete hogwash.

Perth was rubbish because we got pantsed.

31K day 1 and 32K day 2 are still pretty good crowds, in fact pretty much in line with the first 2 days at the GABBA. India was 0/172 and had a lead of 218 at the end of day 2, it easily explains why there was no bloody atmosphere.

Perth is here to stay on the test calander no matter what rubbish you post or crap opinion you have.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Perth was rubbish because we got pantsed.

31K day 1 and 32K day 2 are still pretty good crowds, in fact pretty much in line with the first 2 days at the GABBA. India was 0/172 and had a lead of 218 at the end of day 2, it easily explains why there was no bloody atmosphere.

Perth is here to stay on the test calander no matter what rubbish you post or crap opinion you have.

The Gabba only holds 37k rofl and it was raining........great comparison lol.

Half a stadium vs a almost full one....

I agree it's going nowhere because of the TV deal for the EST states. But i still think Tassie is undeniably better.

 

[Coach_Required]

Don't agree with all of this but do agree we don't turn up. Tests should of stayed at the WACA and that should of been changed to 25k. It was a famous ground like Newlands in SA and now its lost to cricket.

As for Optus well it's just not the same for me, I loved the WACA. I understood the downfalls for the patrons but they could of been fixed. Optus is a big concrete jungle and for 6-8 hours it's not for me. As great a stadium as it is. It's a footy stadium and not a cricket stadium for me. many think much differently though.

As for the test in Perth they will argue that we are getting bigger crowds than ever so whats with the complaints?

I agree 100% with this post.

I ****ing hate cricket at Optus. I loved the WACA even on a blazing hot summers day. Was called the furnace for a reason and it was bloody awesome.

 

[Silver Tongue]

Sam Konstas.
He might burn as brightly as Peter Toohey (for those old enough to remember) but unless he tightens his technique he will burn out even faster.

His first Test innings must draw comparisons with David Hookes and his debut in the Centenary Test. Hookes, while a phenon at Shield level never transferred his results to Test level. Lack of footwork was his greatest downfall particularly against spin and seam away from Australia.

Sri Lanka will be an interesting watch.

Webster on the other hand looks to have a technique of getting forward or back as appropriate, and doesn't get caught on the crease. He might be very handy in the subcontinent with a solid technique and ability to bowl seam up and spin.

Exciting times.

 

[Coach_Required]

The Gabba only holds 37k rofl and it was raining........great comparison lol.

Half a stadium vs a almost full one....

I agree it's going nowhere because of the TV deal for the EST states. But i still think Tassie is undeniably better.

You still didnt reply to my main argument that the game was already over by day 2. No Aussie crowd would have atmosphere if we were getting belted the same way.

Also my point is 31k & 32K are still solid crowds and would create an atmosphere if the game was closer.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You still didnt reply to my main argument that the game was already over by day 2. No Aussie crowd would have atmosphere if we were getting belted the same way.

Also my point is 31k & 32K are still solid crowds and would create an atmosphere if the game was closer.

that's because it doesn't matter if the game was over by day 2.

Day 1 the crowd was half the capacity.

The crowd wasn't good and the atmosphere was bad from the first ball. It didn't matter what India did after that. It was never good to become bad. It was only bad.

No other test, even during working week had that bad attendance. Adelaide was full and still in full work and school term.

just admit you lot don't show up.