Player Watch #7: Liam Baker - Traded to West Coast for pick 14

[beema limapep]

He's coming into our system and we still have FJ, it's not like he's redesigning everything from the ground up.

Gale is trying to get FJ to Tassie.

 

[Lord of the Wings]

Did Jon Ralph say that Baker wants to go to West Coast today?

West C makes no sense. Why would he move from one struggling club to another for the same deal? If I could bet on this I would be loading up on Freo. It makes sense. They have the trade capital, in contention and he won't be expected to carry the team and gets the same coin. Any manager with half a brain would be telling him Freo.

 

[Tigerbob]

Everyone thinking we can’t lose Rioli because of the role of HBF.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but, didn’t we win our flags with Rioli not at HBF? In actual fact I remember a courageous performance by Baker in that role in 2019. Taking hits from Cameron and Green.

Daniel as much as he is a good player, the role is replaceable with another player. He’s 28 and not part of our next flag.

If the offer is too good to refuse, don’t. Pretty simple for me.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Everyone thinking we can’t lose Rioli because of the role of HBF.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but, didn’t we win our flags with Rioli not at HBF? In actual fact I remember a courageous performance by Baker in that role in 2019. Taking hits from Cameron and Green.

Daniel as much as he is a good player, the role is replaceable with another player. He’s 28 and not part of our next flag.

If the offer is too good to refuse, don’t. Pretty simple for me.

Rioli is a barometer for the club, can’t lose him

 

[Tigerbob]

Rioli is a barometer for the club, can’t lose him

Since he’s moved to HBF we have gone backwards. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Philth]

West C makes no sense. Why would he move from one struggling club to another for the same deal? If I could bet on this I would be loading up on Freo. It makes sense. They have the trade capital, in contention and he won't be expected to carry the team and gets the same coin. Any manager with half a brain would be telling him Freo.

To move back to WA. That's the whole reason we're having this conversation about him leaving.

Freo does make sense, but there are perceived poor culture issues there.

Tim Kelly and his manager did not entertain the thought of Freo at all a few years ago. It was WCE or nothing. And he was desperate to move home.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Since he’s moved to HBF we have gone backwards. Is that what you are saying?

We haven’t gone backwards because of him, there’s plenty of underperformers to tee off on

 

[Muddiemoose]

Everyone thinking we can’t lose Rioli because of the role of HBF.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but, didn’t we win our flags with Rioli not at HBF? In actual fact I remember a courageous performance by Baker in that role in 2019. Taking hits from Cameron and Green.

Daniel as much as he is a good player, the role is replaceable with another player. He’s 28 and not part of our next flag.

If the offer is too good to refuse, don’t. Pretty simple for me.

Didn’t have Rioli but we did have Houli who who Rioli is currently playing the role of and Riolis output is probably just as good if not better than Houlis and I can’t really see anyone else on our list currently who could even get close to that level

 

[tigerfan1961]

Everyone thinking we can’t lose Rioli because of the role of HBF.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but, didn’t we win our flags with Rioli not at HBF? In actual fact I remember a courageous performance by Baker in that role in 2019. Taking hits from Cameron and Green.

Daniel as much as he is a good player, the role is replaceable with another player. He’s 28 and not part of our next flag.

If the offer is too good to refuse, don’t. Pretty simple for me.

But we had Houli who was simply awesome running off HB, just like Dan who has replaced him

EDIT: sorry MM, should have kept reading

 

[Tigerbob]

We haven’t gone backwards because of him, there’s plenty of underperformers to tee off on

I was being facetious

 

[Lord of the Wings]

To move back to WA. That's the whole reason we're having this conversation about him leaving.

Freo does make sense, but there are perceived poor culture issues there.

Tim Kelly and his manager did not entertain the thought of Freo at all a few years ago. It was WCE or nothing. And he was desperate to move home.

The Freo issues that Kelly baulked at are no more since Fyfe was removed as captain. West C also had the draft capital which Freo did not and the $ at West C were more. Not an apples for applies comparison

 

[Muddiemoose]

The Freo issues that Kelly baulked at are no more since Fyfe was removed as captain. West C also had the draft capital which Freo did not and the $ at West C were more. Not an apples for applies comparison

Had heard Kelly’s issues were around Ross the boss as well
Have heard through the grape vine that Ross essentially insulted Kelly during an interview telling him that he wouldn’t cut it playing at AFL level

 

[shaky]

If Baker wants out and picks the Eagles, then I'd be asking them for their 2024 & 2025 R2 picks and moving on. I don't believe WCE are going to move out from pick 2 or 3 to get a lower R1 pick to hand to us nor should they. Their R2 pick this year currently sits at 23, could even be 22 or 21 by seasons end now that Simpson is gone. Their R2 pick in 2025 will be around the similar spot. So we'd get 2 top 30 rated kids for Baker who was a rookie selection that we hit the jackpot on.

It doesn't flucken matter what pick we used to pick him up, it's what he's worth now.
By that sort of logic if we take a player at pick 1 or 2 that doesn't pan out and we want to trade them, we should still ask for a pick in the top 5?
Baker is a proven player that maybe around the value of say pick 15-20.
To a team that really wants him he is worth more than his "actual" value say 10-15, or maybe more.
There's a few other factors such as us being in a position to keep him via the PSD etc.
Selling a player like this for 2 speculative picks in the 20's is just farken ridiculous.
At worst we sign him up for another w years and he can leave as a free agent later and we will probably get a better pick than that.

 

[Philth]

The Freo issues that Kelly baulked at are no more since Fyfe was removed as captain. West C also had the draft capital which Freo did not and the $ at West C were more. Not an apples for applies comparison

Fair enough.

Anyway, you asked why Baker would go to WC, the answer is to move back home.

It's a moot point anyway, cos he'll be a Tiger for life

 

[shaky]

Ideally we all want the best possible pick for Baker if he leaves, but if he chooses WCE then there is a simple and straight forward deal there to be done and we move on. Adding the 2024 R2 pick in particular, makes it easier for us to bundle up with some of our other picks and get inside the top 20 while also strengthening our draft hand for next year as well.

If he picks Fremantle well then you ask for the best of their 3 R1 picks this year which again is another pretty straight forward deal to get done.

Jesus's some of you must get ripped off when you have to barter for something overseas!!!!
It's called negotiations, you don't start with what you would settle for, you start with something you know they won't agree to and wait for a counter offer and then it's first to blink.
At the end of the day we get a great deal for Baker or he stays.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Had heard Kelly’s issues were around Ross the boss as well
Have heard through the grape vine that Ross essentially insulted Kelly during an interview telling him that he wouldn’t cut it playing at AFL level

Couldn’t see Ross doing that…..

 

[_RT_]

It doesn't flucken matter what pick we used to pick him up, it's what he's worth now.
By that sort of logic if we take a player at pick 1 or 2 that doesn't pan out and we want to trade them, we should still ask for a pick in the top 5?
Baker is a proven player that maybe around the value of say pick 15-20.
To a team that really wants him he is worth more than his "actual" value say 10-15, or maybe more.
There's a few other factors such as us being in a position to keep him via the PSD etc.
Selling a player like this for 2 speculative picks in the 20's is just farken ridiculous.
At worst we sign him up for another w years and he can leave as a free agent later and we will probably get a better pick than that.

Firstly show a bit of respect when replying.

Secondly, Baker is worth a pick in the mid-late first round, if he chooses WCE, they don't have a pick in that range and they are not going to trade pick 3 for him alone. Their next available pick is 23 currently, if we were to get that and the same value pick in the 2025 draft, it actually values Baker as worth more than a mid-late round 1 pick alone.

Jesus's some of you must get ripped off when you have to barter for something overseas!!!!
It's called negotiations, you don't start with what you would settle for, you start with something you know they won't agree to and wait for a counter offer and then it's first to blink.
At the end of the day we get a great deal for Baker or he stays.

Richmond are likely to go to WCE and say we want a R1 pick for Baker.

WCE say we're not trading pick 3 for Baker, but we're willing to offer up our R2 pick.

Richmond says make it your 2024 & 2025 R2 picks and it's a deal.

Those extra round 2 picks become valuable to us as it gives us 4 picks inside the first 2 rounds this year and 3 picks inside the first 2 rounds next year by losing 1 player and some smart trading last year in the draft.

For a rebuilding side, having 7 picks inside the first 2 rounds of the draft across a 2 year window is a fair kick start and that's before we even start trading the swag of picks we've got later in this years draft.

 

[tunksy]

Didn’t have Rioli but we did have Houli who who Rioli is currently playing the role of and Riolis output is probably just as good if not better than Houlis and I can’t really see anyone else on our list currently who could even get close to that level

Rioli has been good but strongly disagree with the bolded.

rioli's best year at half back was his first. teams have since stifled his run and carry and he appears to handball more than kick ow.

 

[db26]

Houli was a level above Rioli that dash and run carry set us up so many times. Always performed on big stage to the gf.

 

[Lacustrus]

Didn’t have Rioli but we did have Houli who who Rioli is currently playing the role of and Riolis output is probably just as good if not better than Houlis and I can’t really see anyone else on our list currently who could even get close to that level

Bacchar was a star in 2017-2020. Very hard to replace. Intercepting and drive off half back @ AA quality

 

[Muddiemoose]

Rioli has been good but strongly disagree with the bolded.

rioli's best year at half back was his first. teams have since stifled his run and carry and he appears to handball more than kick ow.

Bacchar was a star in 2017-2020. Very hard to replace. Intercepting and drive off half back @ AA quality

Not sure if I agree I think Rioli has been showing a lot more in a team that is a lot more compromised and less mature options to help him attack

Even if for arguments sake Houli was better he didn’t really hit his prime until he was older than what Rioli is now who is really only entering his prime

 

[richoplzbreed]

He's my mum's favourite player. When we trade a former Rookie pick 18 into a top 10 pick or WCE future 1st rounder he'll be my favourite player. Dream scenario is getting 100 odd games and the best years out of a good average player then watching another team covet said player, then sell him for 10x the original outlay....... much more satisfying than watching 1st rounders waltz out the club for zero trade currency.

 

[shaky]

Firstly show a bit of respect when replying.

Secondly, Baker is worth a pick in the mid-late first round, if he chooses WCE, they don't have a pick in that range and they are not going to trade pick 3 for him alone. Their next available pick is 23 currently, if we were to get that and the same value pick in the 2025 draft, it actually values Baker as worth more than a mid-late round 1 pick alone.


Richmond are likely to go to WCE and say we want a R1 pick for Baker.

WCE say we're not trading pick 3 for Baker, but we're willing to offer up our R2 pick.

Richmond says make it your 2024 & 2025 R2 picks and it's a deal.

Those extra round 2 picks become valuable to us as it gives us 4 picks inside the first 2 rounds this year and 3 picks inside the first 2 rounds next year by losing 1 player and some smart trading last year in the draft.

For a rebuilding side, having 7 picks inside the first 2 rounds of the draft across a 2 year window is a fair kick start and that's before we even start trading the swag of picks we've got later in this years draft.

Sorry man but some of these trade ideas just drive me insane.
I don't get this obsession with trading out some of our best players for meh draft picks.
I really don't get filling our list in one or 2 years with unknown draft picks that are probably less than a 50% chance of making it.
If we do this really smartly over 2-3 years we bring in some top end talent to compliment what we have, a few later speculative picks, maybe trade in and pick up a FA or two and we can be back in a decent position.
Trade out all of these players like Baker and Rioli for late first rounds, second rounds etc I'll tip we have better chance or staying down for a long period as we search through these late picks for some half decent players.

 

[voorhees]

I find this type of comment bizarre.

Baker is being criminally underrated on this thread.

underrated is your opinion./ overrated is mine.
I'm all in on trading this year
out with the old and in with the new
Baker would be the first I would happily trade out for extra draft picks.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Sorry man but some of these trade ideas just drive me insane.
I don't get this obsession with trading out some of our best players for meh draft picks.
I really don't get filling our list in one or 2 years with unknown draft picks that are probably less than a 50% chance of making it.
If we do this really smartly over 2-3 years we bring in some top end talent to compliment what we have, a few later speculative picks, maybe trade in and pick up a FA or two and we can be back in a decent position.
Trade out all of these players like Baker and Rioli for late first rounds, second rounds etc I'll tip we have better chance or staying down for a long period as we search through these late picks for some half decent players.

So what you are saying is you would want this.

Draft Smillie/FOS this year. When he enters his prime in 7 years he’ll be ripping it up with a 34 year old Dan (if he’s still on the list) who will then retire the next year and we get nothing.

Yeah sounds great, sign me up for another drought.