Adam Simpson meets with AFL to discuss the inequalities that interstate teams put up with

[Obeanie1]

Yes you pointed me to that website when you incorrectly tried to show home advantage.

WC win 78% of games at Optus, much bigger HGA compared to Subiaco.

12 games at Optus at 78.6 % win rate is 9.4 wins

Compare that to Collingwood at the G, 14 games with a 61.2% win rate is just 8.6 wins.

Tigers even worse, their MCG win rate of just 56.2% so if they get 14 games they going to win less than 8 games....so to try and come top4 would need to win 7 of 8 games away from the G!!

Those poor Eagles have it so tough

Dam lies and statistics is the saying.

Here is a great example.

So you take a one year sample of the Eagles wins at a new stadium in a year they win the flag!

Sure, that is a perfectly adequate and logical sample size!

 

[doppleganger]

Dam lies and statistics is the saying.

Here is a great example.

So you take a one year sample of the Eagles wins at a new stadium in a year they win the flag!

Sure, that is a perfectly adequate and logical sample size!

Yeah a nonsense isn’t it.

Yet Kranky actually thinks trying to extrapolate anything from a period when Richmond broke a 100+ year consecutive win record at the G is valid.

 

[Obeanie1]

Yeah a nonsense isn’t it.

Yet Kranky actually thinks trying to extrapolate anything from a period when Richmond broke a 100+ year consecutive win record at the G is valid.

No it isnt. Obviously.

Stats need a reasonable sample size to mean anything.

 

[doppleganger]

No it isnt. Obviously.

Stats need a reasonable sample size to mean anything.

Only if you are trying to infer anything from them.

A basic descriptive stat is just that, the sample size isn’t relevant.

WC have a 78.6% win rate at Optus.

Collingwood has a 53.4% win rate across all 621 games MCG games. But our overall win rate is 60.4%...we suffer from an MCG disadvantage...especially on GF day!!

That is worthy of Buckley complaining to the league at how unfair Collingwood have it...if following Kranky logic.

 

[Carringbush2010]

51% is a majority but you would be insane to ignore 49% of your customers. Victoria might have a greater population than the other states individually, but not combined. The issue of Victorian bias actually adversely affects about 50 per cent of AFL fans.

Babow!

Victoria outnumbers all other footy states (wa, sa & tas) and NT combined by more than 1.3 million.

 

[kranky al]

Dam lies and statistics is the saying.

Here is a great example.

So you take a one year sample of the Eagles wins at a new stadium in a year they win the flag!

Sure, that is a perfectly adequate and logical sample size!

Seeing as the op is based on a 3 year sample of richmond im a little nonplussed on why you are so obsessed on a 1 year sample

I mean i gave them literally every home game as a win based on this season alone - but that was to make them look good - if i averaged out their three seasons home games they would look even worse.

Ie using their amazing 2018 mcg record doesnt help my argument. Its bad for my argument. But i used it anyway.

*shakes head

 

[JackOutback]

Babow!

Victoria outnumbers all other footy states (wa, sa & tas) and NT combined by more than 1.3 million.

They play football in NSW and Queensland, you know. Pretty sure some people even watch them play.

 

[kranky al]

Babow!

Victoria outnumbers all other footy states (wa, sa & tas) and NT combined by more than 1.3 million.

Thats an excellent reason to ignore them

Especially those expansion states

Spend tens of millions getting teams in there - then ignore shit out of them.

Its like harvard business 101

Reinforce failure....

 

[Ok Boomer]

Yes, it is hopefully highlighting how inane Kranky is waffling on about just two seasons when Richmond finally (after 35+ seasons of mediocrity) had some success.

WC have a 78% winning record at their home ground, yet they somehow think they are hard done by!

A good side winning 3 out of 4 games at home, what a concept that is.

Being a good side doesn’t dilute any fairness arguments.

 

[Ok Boomer]

Only if you are trying to infer anything from them.

A basic descriptive stat is just that, the sample size isn’t relevant.

WC have a 78.6% win rate at Optus.

Collingwood has a 53.4% win rate across all 621 games MCG games. But our overall win rate is 60.4%...we suffer from an MCG disadvantage...especially on GF day!!

That is worthy of Buckley complaining to the league at how unfair Collingwood have it...if following Kranky logic.

So you are comparing one West Coast season which happened to be a flag year against the entire MCG home ground record for your club. That is an extraordinary manipulation of statistics.

 

[Carringbush2010]

They play football in NSW and Queensland, you know. Pretty sure some people even watch them play.

Yeah but you'd hardly call it them "footy" states, not really a huge market is it. Here are the numbers, rusted on footy supporters highlighted.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Thats an excellent reason to ignore them

Especially those expansion states

Spend tens of millions getting teams in there - then ignore shit out of them.

Its like harvard business 101

Reinforce failure....

Seems HQ are hell bent on forcing the "make footy no1 in rugby states" regardless of the money sent to keep it going and how long it will take. Probably explains why they want to extract every dollar possible elsewhere and therefore get your marquee fixtures and gf @ the G etc etc.

Anyway think you're barkin up the the wrong tree as I have nothing to do with what HQ (*cough* ch7 *cough* mcc) does.

 

[Obeanie1]

Seeing as the op is based on a 3 year sample of richmond im a little nonplussed on why you are so obsessed on a 1 year sample

I mean i gave them literally every home game as a win based on this season alone - but that was to make them look good - if i averaged out their three seasons home games they would look even worse.

Ie using their amazing 2018 mcg record doesnt help my argument. Its bad for my argument. But i used it anyway.

*shakes head

TBH I wasnt following the discussion in detail. Just pointing out with stats,any stats if you dont get enough sample data it can provide poor results that are removed from the norm.

I work with a lot of historic data and use it for forecasting so its what Ido.

Not supporting either argument tbh.

 

[doppleganger]

So you are comparing one West Coast season which happened to be a flag year against the entire MCG home ground record for your club. That is an extraordinary manipulation of statistics.

Have put forward the entire stadium history for Eagles at Optus and Collingwood at MCG.

No manipulation.

Anybody trying to do any analysis and modelling off a dozen games is a nuffie...that is my point.

 

[Ok Boomer]

Have put forward the entire stadium history for Eagles at Optus and Collingwood at MCG.

No manipulation.

Anybody trying to do any analysis and modelling off a dozen games is a nuffie...that is my point.

The entire stadium history, knowing full well that we have had only one successful year there, which actually suits your agenda. Manipulation.

 

[doppleganger]

The entire stadium history, knowing full well that we have had only one successful year there, which actually suits your agenda. Manipulation.

That isn’t manipulation.

It is a nonsense to cherry pick a dozen games and try and infer anything from them...like others do in this thread, that is what I was trying to detail.

In 2013-15 Richmond went 13-4 in games away to non-vic sides....trying to then conclude that they are great at traveling is a nonsense.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The entire stadium history, knowing full well that we have had only one successful year there, which actually suits your agenda. Manipulation.

Whoosh

 

[Grin]

Its only 10 home game advantage and is that really much of an advantage when they have 10 away games? Surely that nets off to nill gain.

Look at the Hawks this year . Travelled away 4 times and had 7 games where they had a home game advantage. You've got your head in the sand if you think interstate sides aren't at a disadvantage .

Richmond played both it’s finals against other MCG tenants. West Coast had a very clear home ground advantage, the biggest in the comp, for it’s.
You’ve got your head in the sand if you think interstate sides aren’t at an advantage.
The solution to your problem of travel is to merge all Victorian clubs into 2 entities. Then you’d be complaining about how unfairly powerful they are and how the Eagles need yet more concessions.
West Australian entitlement is a thirst that can never be quenched.

Oh, and by the way, the chance of relocating the Grand Final to WA is about as likely and preposterous as relocating the Melbourne Cup.

 

[JackOutback]

Yeah but you'd hardly call it them "footy" states, not really a huge market is it. Here are the numbers, rusted on footy supporters highlighted.

View attachment 580040

Here are some facts for you.

Victoria
New South Wales
Western Australia
South Australia
Queensland

These are the states represented in the AFL. I said any bias towards Victorian teams will affect about 50 per cent of fans. Obfuscation about what's a 'footy state' is wholly irrelevant to the argument. It doesn't matter how rusted on a state is, there are footy fans from NSW and Queensland affected by any bias.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

I really hated that West Coast won the grand final, but they did it off their own backs and churned out some great results throughout the season.

The umpiring bias they get at home aside, there are some definite pros and cons to being either a Vic club or a non-Vic club. The travel is the main one. Maybe the clubs could look at doing "tours" and play a few away games in a row, then come back and play a few at home in a row. I dunno

Oh and on another note, the tears in this thread are delicious (from both sides of the argument)

 

[flyinghi64]

So instead of B.Fing B.F posters I was just actually wondering if after 60+ pages of posts there was any outcome/report/news on the topic at hand.
The meeting between Simmo and AFL.
Can't see any news or reports on AFL site or Eagles site.
Was this just a private, behind closed doors meeting that goes nowhere or was something released?

The thread seems to have opened up a fair can of worms so it is obviously a topic many feel strongly about with many differing views.

 

[Coach_Required]

So instead of B.Fing B.F posters I was just actually wondering if after 60+ pages of posts there was any outcome/report/news on the topic at hand.
The meeting between Simmo and AFL.
Can't see any news or reports on AFL site or Eagles site.
Was this just a private, behind closed doors meeting that goes nowhere or was something released?

The thread seems to have opened up a fair can of worms so it is obviously a topic many feel strongly about with many differing views.

Gill would have said congratulations on your premiership Adam .... here would you like tea or coffee (Lucy can you get Adam something to drink please) then the office phone would have rang and taken up a few minutes before Gill said ..well that was nice to see you Adam, lets do this again sometime enjoy your flight home.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Richmond played both it’s finals against other MCG tenants. West Coast had a very clear home ground advantage, the biggest in the comp, for it’s.
You’ve got your head in the sand if you think interstate sides aren’t at an advantage.
The solution to your problem of travel is to merge all Victorian clubs into 2 entities. Then you’d be complaining about how unfairly powerful they are and how the Eagles need yet more concessions.
West Australian entitlement is a thirst that can never be quenched.

Oh, and by the way, the chance of relocating the Grand Final to WA is about as likely and preposterous as relocating the Melbourne Cup.

Interstate sides are not at an advantage, they certainly do possess a strong home ground advantage during the home and away season which may or may not see them finish higher than they may possibly deserve to?
Now I am not an advocate of moving the GF but that advantage you speak of in the Home and away season is certainly evened out when playing in the biggest game of the year at a Victorian teams home turf. If you lose a GF you are a loser, if you lose a home and away game you simply have next week again.
There is no solution to it all though and no matter how much we all discuss it what can really be done?
If you believe the MCG offers little advantage to clubs like Richmond and Collingwood who play there 15-17 times a season then so be it.

 

[kranky al]

Have put forward the entire stadium history for Eagles at Optus and Collingwood at MCG.

No manipulation.

Anybody trying to do any analysis and modelling off a dozen games is a nuffie...that is my point.

Weve only played one seasonnat optus - a year we won a gf and came second in the h and a

Talk about stats manipulation - our record at subi is nothing like that

 

[Colonial]

Richmond played both it’s finals against other MCG tenants. West Coast had a very clear home ground advantage, the biggest in the comp, for it’s.
You’ve got your head in the sand if you think interstate sides aren’t at an advantage.
The solution to your problem of travel is to merge all Victorian clubs into 2 entities. Then you’d be complaining about how unfairly powerful they are and how the Eagles need yet more concessions.
West Australian entitlement is a thirst that can never be quenched.

Oh, and by the way, the chance of relocating the Grand Final to WA is about as likely and preposterous as relocating the Melbourne Cup.

Always bring up the home advantage but never the away disadvantage.

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