Preview AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138, Teams post 236

[Swooop]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

If we're comparing mids, who are we putting up as our midfield, who are carlton putting up as their midfield, then we could have a meaningful debate.

Maybe a ruckman, and the main three mids each ( maybe more to allow rotations)

Opti, seeing you're the most outspoken on this, who would you put up?

Toad, feel free to out your's up.

Then, let a proper debate begin!

 

[HFF]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

It's great to have two power forwards who strike FEAR into the opposition, particularly Cloke.

Never thought I'd actually see the day Travis Cloke would become the most intimidating big man in the competition.

It's truly a sight to behold watching other clubs trying to come up with a list of names or ways to stop him.

 

[mdc]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

If we're comparing mids, who are we putting up as our midfield, who are carlton putting up as their midfield, then we could have a meaningful debate.

Unless "midfield" only includes your best 2 players, we can't have a meaningful debate.

 

[PremierPie13]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

If we're comparing mids, who are we putting up as our midfield, who are carlton putting up as their midfield, then we could have a meaningful debate.

Maybe a ruckman, and the main three mids each ( maybe more to allow rotations)

Opti, seeing you're the most outspoken on this, who would you put up?

Toad, feel free to out your's up.

Then, let a proper debate begin!

Pendels, Thomas and Swan for Judd, Murphy and Gibbs. Our B-graders are simply superior though: Ball, Didak, Wellingham, Sidebottom and Beams. Carazzo? Simpson? Lawl. Mitch Robinson is in top form however even if he is Ling's cousin(ugly bastard).

 

[mattys123]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

What is this?

I don't even?

You just can't actually be being serious

Let me put it in perspective for you.

Carlton supporters = believe media votes and brownlow votes tell you everything about who the best players are.

Collingwood supporters and most other AFL supporters = believe your performances and importance to your team is much more reliable of an indicator as to how good of a player you are.

Carlton have Judd and Murphy.

Collingwood have Thomas, Pendlebury, Ball, Swan.

And we also have far more depth then Carlton in the midfield, even with Didak and Beams missing.

Simply put, while Carlton may have the best single midfielder on the ground on Saturday, they won't have the best midfield.

 

[smiddaz123]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Our lack of a KPD is the one thing that is really worrying me. Our Fwds can get the job done, our mids are the best in comp, but our backline sucks arse at the moment.
Need to bring in someone who can do the job on Cloke, who that is, is anyones guess.

If you can invent an imaginary midfield, why not invent an imaginary decent KP player? You probably need to latter more.

 

[hellfire]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Carlton has a fantastic midfield, but no on the level of ours.

Jolly, Swan, Pendlebury, Thomas, Ball, Wellingham as the starting 6? Mmmm.

 

[Optimax]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

If we're comparing mids, who are we putting up as our midfield, who are carlton putting up as their midfield, then we could have a meaningful debate.

Maybe a ruckman, and the main three mids each ( maybe more to allow rotations)

Opti, seeing you're the most outspoken on this, who would you put up?

Toad, feel free to out your's up.

Then, let a proper debate begin!

Swan
Pendlebury
Thomas
Ball
Wellingham
Along with jolly in the ruck would be our best
Blair
Beams (inj)
Sidebottom
Shaw
Johnson (inj)
Didak (inj)

As part timers would be as good as some of their front liners

 

[Jesus Baulks]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Is Carrazzo still their vice captain?

They must have the best midfield in the league if Brock McLean can't get a game... right?

 

[HARKER]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Simply put, while Carlton may have the best single midfielder on the ground on Saturday, they won't have the best midfield.

A pretty good way to put it.

If we matched up player against player, the numbers may actually stack up pretty close, but that's not what it's about.
Collingwood just plays the better game, all around.

 

[BuckleysBrigade]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

This isn't supercoach; midfield in AFL terms surely includes ruckmen also IMO - this position certainly hurts any claim by Carlton supporters.

Great troll by The Toad though.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

It's great to have two power forwards who strike FEAR into the opposition, particularly Cloke.

Never thought I'd actually see the day Travis Cloke would become the most intimidating big man in the competition.

It's truly a sight to behold watching other clubs trying to come up with a list of names or ways to stop him.

..Cloke is your KPF in red hot form.. ..i think with his improved goal kicking it's given him that extra bit of confidence to really start dominating, week in week out.. ..i reckon the position/role he plays [CHF] in todays congested footy enables him to work into a bit more space than say an old fashioned FF gets nowadays.. ..good thing is he's well and truely earning the big bucks you're paying him.. ..he was never much chance of walking during those contract negs huh..?..

..i don't think Dawes on his own worries teams more than a good kpf normally does, it's cos you've got Cloke tearing it up that him and Dawes makes it that much more harder.. ..while Brown isn't as good as Dawes, he'll be able to cover the loss for the most part on the back of all the hard work Cloke is doing.. ..in many ways though Dawes' still improving so that could very well change, but currently i'd put Cloke a fair way ahead of Dawes..

 

[Swooop]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Collingwood - Jolly, Pendlebury, Swan, Ball, Wellingham

Carlton - Kreuzer, Judd, Murphy, Robinson, Carrazzo/Simpson

Thomas and Gibbs I've left out cos they play off HBF/Wing whatever, plus they about cancel each other out, though Daisy would be in front IMO.

Actually i think Matty and Harker have pretty much agreed on the bottom line.

Either way, there's probably not a huge difference as a unit - though maybe as Opti implies our second tier mids may be a little ahead, but then again their second ruck stocks may be better than ours in the middle, but not necessarily around the ground!

Too hard, too many variables!!

 

[DaVe86]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Hey guys,

the article is up on theh collingwood website, and there are a few shots of myself at the bottom from on my holiday if you want to check them out

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/118466/default.aspx

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

..best clearance quartet for the blues this season so far has been Warnock, Judd, Murphy and Ellard.. ..on paper not that strong across the four, but statistically and in games the blues have a very good clearance system usually.. ..also at center bounces and general stoppages the blues likewise rank very highly in regards to clearances.. ..it's definitely been the blues midfield that's been getting the job done this season..

..while some names are yet to earn the kudo's, i'd figure pies supporters would understand better than most how simple it is for the non-supporters of a club to not recognise the importance of so-called no-name mids that after a while do get recognised as being good players..

..last year Lethal reckoned you didn't have any stars, now he'd probably have a 1/3 of your team as stars of the comp.. ..it's usually the way it goes, those outside a club are most often a year or two behind in noticing how good certain players actually are.. ..plus it takes time for ppl to also shift their thinking from "player X isn't much chop but is currently playing career best footy", to [after a season or two of good footy] "player X is a future star" etc etc..

..Ball is a prime example.. ..early on at the saints he was a superstar, last season or two he was on the decline, before you picked him up ppl reckoned he was stuffed and finished etc etc.. ..now he's a vital part of your midfield set-up and i'd say once more an A grader..

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Collingwood - Jolly, Pendlebury, Swan, Ball, Wellingham

Carlton - Kreuzer, Judd, Murphy, Robinson, Carrazzo/Simpson

Thomas and Gibbs I've left out cos they play off HBF/Wing whatever, plus they about cancel each other out, though Daisy would be in front IMO.

Actually i think Matty and Harker have pretty much agreed on the bottom line.

Either way, there's probably not a huge difference as a unit - though maybe as Opti implies our second tier mids may be a little ahead, but then again their second ruck stocks may be better than ours in the middle, but not necessarily around the ground!

Too hard, too many variables!!

..just need to look at the last time we played to see how the midfield's stacked up.. ..great contested intense footy game last time round, and if anything our midfield's kinda restricted eachother and it was the other players that managed to get going.. ..Blair was the definite player on the ground that was truely able to cut loose and do real damage/impact.. ..probably was the most influential player on that day..

 

[DTShowtime]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

..best clearance quartet for the blues this season so far has been Warnock, Judd, Murphy and Ellard.

No offence but Ellard reminds me of Luke Godden. As for Warnock, he makes Josh Fraser look like Clark Keating in September 01/02/03. Mitch Robinson is a toughnut but his disposal makes Paul Licuria's foot skills look like Peter Daicos in full flight.

 

[tattooedswan]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Let me put it in perspective for you.

Carlton supporters = believe media votes and brownlow votes tell you everything about who the best players are.

Collingwood supporters and most other AFL supporters = believe your performances and importance to your team is much more reliable of an indicator as to how good of a player you are.

Carlton have Judd and Murphy.

Collingwood have Thomas, Pendlebury, Ball, Swan.

And we also have far more depth then Carlton in the midfield, even with Didak and Beams missing.

Simply put, while Carlton may have the best single midfielder on the ground on Saturday, they won't have the best midfield.

Spot on. Grand Final week last year, Carlton supporters thought they had it the best on account of Judd winning a Brownlow whereas we were lining up for a Grand Final! They can spin it whatever way they want, they couldn't have been happier that Judd stole Swanny's Brownlow but the fact is, we saw the bigger picture and lived team history. Carlton supporters can enjoy talking about Judd rather than Premierships as long as they want.

 

[Avatar]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Hey guys,

the article is up on theh collingwood website, and there are a few shots of myself at the bottom from on my holiday if you want to check them out

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/118466/default.aspx

Should have put your footy jumper on them

Good preview as always.

 

[The Toad]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

This isn't supercoach; midfield in AFL terms surely includes ruckmen also IMO - this position certainly hurts any claim by Carlton supporters.

Great troll by The Toad though.

Cheers. But it wasn't meant to be a troll.

Collingwood - Jolly, Pendlebury, Swan, Ball, Wellingham

Carlton - Kreuzer, Judd, Murphy, Robinson, Carrazzo/Simpson

Thomas and Gibbs I've left out cos they play off HBF/Wing whatever, plus they about cancel each other out, though Daisy would be in front IMO.

Actually i think Matty and Harker have pretty much agreed on the bottom line.

Either way, there's probably not a huge difference as a unit - though maybe as Opti implies our second tier mids may be a little ahead, but then again their second ruck stocks may be better than ours in the middle, but not necessarily around the ground!

Too hard, too many variables!!

This is pretty much on the mark, Swooop.

The way I see it is::

Jolly is ahead of Kreuzer
Judd is ahead of Swann
Murphy is ahead of Pendlebury
Robinson is ahead of Ball
Wellingham is ahead of Simpson.

So IMO we have a better midfield. But it's only just.

 

[The Toad]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

If you can invent an imaginary midfield, why not invent an imaginary decent KP player? You probably need to latter more.

Mate, if it was that easy I would be sitting here with Elle McPherson under my desk.

 

[Wooljay]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Murphy and Pendlebury cone down to preference, and if you ask anyone who isn't a Pies or Blurs supporter I think you'd find most would lean to Pendles. And Robinson has been in form, but you'd be a little daft to say he is a better player than Ball in the bigger picture.

 

[mdc]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Jolly is ahead of Kreuzer
Judd is ahead of Swann
Murphy is ahead of Pendlebury
Robinson is ahead of Ball
Wellingham is ahead of Simpson.

So IMO we have a better midfield. But it's only just.

lol. Let's go to an unbiased judge, namely Champion Data:

Jolly > Kreuzer (won't even bother checking that one)
Swan > Judd (117 to 113)
Pendlebury > Murphy (127 to 117)
Ball > Robinson (95 to 91)
Thomas > Simpson (111 to 88)
Gibbs > Wellingham (98 to 79)

5-1, and that's without even looking at our clearly superior depth. Easy.

 

[Paddywhackers]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Cheers. But it wasn't meant to be a troll.



This is pretty much on the mark, Swooop.

The way I see it is::

Jolly is ahead of Kreuzer
Judd is ahead of Swann
Murphy is ahead of Pendlebury
Robinson is ahead of Ball
Wellingham is ahead of Simpson.

So IMO we have a better midfield. But it's only just.

No you don't have a better midfield.

Judd, Murphy is about equal to Swan, Pendles. But after that your midfield falls away, whereas we have still some guns to go in the middle.

Thomas, Wellingham, Ball, etc

We will smash you out of the middle as well on Sat, and your small forwards will get belted by O'Brien, Maxwell, Shaw and Toovey.

A mauling is on the cards!

 

[NT.Thunder]

Re: AFL Rd 17 - Coll vs Carlton - Prematch Discussion, DaVe86's Preview post 138

Cheers. But it wasn't meant to be a troll.



This is pretty much on the mark, Swooop.

The way I see it is::

Jolly is ahead of Kreuzer
Judd is ahead of Swann
Murphy is ahead of Pendlebury
Robinson is ahead of Ball
Wellingham is ahead of Simpson.

So IMO we have a better midfield. But it's only just.

What about this:

Jolly is ahead of Kreuzer
Judd is ahead of Ball
Pendlebury is ahead of Robinson
Swan is ahead of Murphy
Wellingham is ahead of Simpson.

WOW, Now we have a better midfield!