Review AFL Round 17 autopsy - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points

[bobbycatsfanme]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

yep I agree, always looked like Carlton were never in it but I sort of felt that same way against Carlton too. But most players in that team that beat Carlton is still the same team we belted just over 20 months ago in the prelim
Jolly, Maxwell, Krakouer, Brown, Davis, Tarrant, Swan, Didak and Ball aren't getting any younger though and the average age for them was 25 years & 29 days as opposed to our ancient list of 25 years & 247 days. We actually didn't have the oldest list playing on the weekend which was refreshing to hear.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Summary -

1. Team generally was pretty ordinary - and that is 3 weeks in a row now.

2. Pods is getting better and Hawkins did well - but this is not a top team we were playing - so hold back on some of the hype.

3. Varcoe was poor overall today

4. Selwood was quiet

5. Vardy needs more time before he will be a consistent player for us.

6. Got beaten in the rucks and at centre bounces again.

7. Kelly is best in the midfield but he may have to play back the way things are looking presently. Backline is leaking goals.

8.On West's performance today - I see Simpson ahead of him.

9. Bundy really impressed me.

10. We need to start putting the best 22 on the park in the positions they will play come finals time. Time to start building and believing.

I agree but frankly it doesn't matter because I don't think Simpson and Ottens can work under the interchange rule (because Dawson's a good ruckman but a poor forward and Otto can't be a permanent forward now). Really one of Vardy or West (don't care which) has to play in September regardless of whether they're up to it or not because the structural domino effect-i.e. Hawkins stays forward draws attention which gives Pods 1-1's is what will have a massive part in us winning the flag if we do so (not saying we will, just saying it's critical for us to have a chance). Dropping West/Vardy requires Hawkins to then go ruck and stuffs all that up and the negative from that is greater than the negative of playing a Vardy or a West. Hopefully after today the MC realise that the four talls is the way to go and stay with it for the rest of the year.

 

[CF]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Yep! Pretty ordinary effort from Tomahawk. More contested marks than Pods. Could have kicked five and assisted in two others. Send him back to the VFL for a few more weeks I say.

well when I compare hawkins to you I do see that he is not the worst Spud I have seen. So he has that going for him.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

We are thinking about September, and all it's about now is management and preparation.

Next few weeks gives us the opportunity to try some things, and I expect us to be really hitting our straps right after the bye.

Let's also give Brissy some credit. They might be bottom 4, but they've been a tough nut to crack at the Gabba for most of the year.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

All the whining freaking out supporters on here crapping on that we are out of form, in trouble, slowing down. Lets look at facts. I was at the Brisbane game today and noticed a few things most have missed.

We desperately missed Sarlett. Also thought the article in the footy record made a great point. Milburn = Scarlett = chemistry, experience and value. We will be an infinitely better side that leaks FAR less goals when those two come back in.

We are desperately missing Byrnes and Wojo's pace. Yes some of the new boys are quick, but Wojo and Shan have genuine old school pace and are both experienced premiership players. We will be an infinitely better side with them in.

Vardy is good, but Otto is Otto. We will see West make way for Otto next week. That change, along with Hawkins return and the flow on to Pods - having Otto and Hawk in the side with him, as well as Vardy floating around will make us an infinitely better side.

Bundy is now the best of our young players. While I have been a fan since he was drafted - loved his work @ the Falcons, and that his uncles were Cats, I thought Duncan was better by daylight. No longer think this. He is quick, a natural footballer, skilled and hard as nails. His goal today where he hit a pack front and square, roved it at pace and snapped was freaking gold.

We will win the flag people. Bookmark it. Side will start settling now, experienced players, quick players and matchwinning players will return to this side, and we will start getting ready to peak in Sept.

I totally agree with all of this.

I reckon we are just sharpening things up in readiness for what is going to be a tough September.

I'm not thinking too far ahead, Collingwood are going to be tough to beat and we are going to have to be right on top of our games to roll them. I think we can do it.

I just hope we don't cop Hawthorn along the way. ****ers lol.

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

The question is will the form and energy suddenly reappear as you expect it to. I´m all for being optimistic, but it didn`t happen last year, as much as we all spoke of heavy training loads etc. To win the flag, they will need to find another lung relative to the last 3 weeks, and Hawkins, Menzel, Christenson and Duncan will all have to represent significant improvements to the side from last year. I.e. if these guys can`t make an impact, we are essentially the same team as 2010, minus Ablett and perhaps plus Joel Corey.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

The question is will the form and energy suddenly reappear as you expect it to. I´m all for being optimistic, but it didn`t happen last year, as much as we all spoke of heavy training loads etc. To win the flag, they will need to find another lung relative to the last 3 weeks, and Hawkins, Menzel, Christenson and Duncan will all have to represent significant improvements to the side from last year. I.e. if these guys can`t make an impact, we are essentially the same team as 2010, minus Ablett and perhaps plus Joel Corey.

Forgotten 2009 already?

We were gawn then too.

 

[BadFish]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

We need a number of things to happen to be at our best for September. Mainly the players you have mentioned back and in form. The downside of that is that their is always the chance that they are not back or are not in form. Can we really rely on Ottens et al being fit for September (a lot can happen between now and then). We need a lot of luck (as do all teams) to win the Premiership. We need all our top players in and in form, we need Varcoe and Chapman to step up.

We are in with a good chance this year if things go right for us but to call a Premiership win now is just folly.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Yep! Pretty ordinary effort from Tomahawk. More contested marks than Pods. Could have kicked five and assisted in two others. Send him back to the VFL for a few more weeks I say.

Did you watch the game live? Hawkins was woeful Defensively and didn't put he's body on the line when the ball was on the ground. Several times he could of displayed defensive pressure and tackled but instead he just stood there and watched Brisbane run the ball out of defense. He needs a kick up the ass because against the better sides in the finals we will get murdered. No desperation defensively.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

We need a number of things to happen to be at our best for September. Mainly the players you have mentioned back and in form. The downside of that is that their is always the chance that they are not back or are not in form. Can we really rely on Ottens et al being fit for September (a lot can happen between now and then). We need a lot of luck (as do all teams) to win the Premiership. We need all our top players in and in form, we need Varcoe and Chapman to step up.

We are in with a good chance this year if things go right for us but to call a Premiership win now is just folly.

Have to agree with this, whilst they are nice sentiments in the OP, we struggled to put a bottom four side away and if the Clarke/Brown sickening collision hadnt occured who knows? So hopefully the players arent just assuming everything will just click into place like it did in 09.

To be honest I dont think we have played anywhere near a solid 4 qtrs since we beat Collingwood and that seems an eternity ago right now. Sounds basic but whoever wins the flag this year will be the best side over 4 qtrs and even the Pies showed some weaknesses vs Carlton that they are not bullet proof either.

We need all the tough footy we can get right now and a month playing sides outside the 8 is not exactly whats needed right now. I do have faith in the group they know whats requried of course but 2 months is a fair while to go without playing anything like your best football. Time will tell.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Geez Pods was fantastic today, he's been great this year and he'll be crucial in September.

Good to see Hawkins show something too, hopefully they will now darn well leave him at full forward and call off this ruck rubbish, Otto and Vardy ruck, Pods and Hawkins forward, done.

A shout out to Bundy too, I reckon there's every chance he'll get a spot in the finals side, not sure at who's expense yet, but he offers so much at the stoppages which is an area we're still having issues with it.

Good to break the run of losses but we're still playing in patches and that won't cut it against the top teams, we need to find more consistency pronto.

Seems simple doesn't it....Hawkins/Pods and Otto/Vardy. Surely we have now got to stick with this formula and solidify our spine.

Defensive points about Hawkins noted....great to see him clunking a few marks but where his influence will be most needed is in his ability to continually create contests bring the ball to ground (or preferably mark it!) and keep it in there. He was really good at this in 2009, he needs to be good again in 2011. However, great to see signs of life in him and hopefully we are seeing the turning point.

Patchy form now i can handle....we have time to address things and be strong come september.

 

[catswhiskers]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Got to speak up for West.

No one is asking him to be the number one ruckman.

He rucked against a number 4 draft pick and highly regarded ruckman. In the first half he was one of very few players going at all. He won a number of clear and well placed taps (we didn't make the most of them) - this is reflected in a steady average SC score (82). Watch a replay and listen to the call of the commentator about who won taps - Wests name was often used.

He was up forward a few times and although he didn't mark he kept a tall very busy allowing others one on ones. He was also aware that pods was on fire and you do not get in the way directly - you just keep your man out of contests. Around the ground he was poor early but was starting to get into it more as the game progressed.

Vardy is the more talented ruck going forward but it took him until the last quarter to get going in the ruck . This lack of effect in the ruck for 3 quarters and inability to nail marks left him with 41 SC points.

West is a support to Ottens or Simpson and in direct competition with Vardy. Thats the choice for this year.

West will be a good honest. He is not a Cox or Sandilands or even a 24 year old Vardy but he does need more time to show his stuff.

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

Forgotten 2009 already?

We were gawn then too.

Yeah, my memory only lasts one year. Point is, 2010 was later than 2009, and 2011 is even later. I`m not saying we can`t do it, only that getting the old blokes up with perfect timing etc will only get harder, and we couldn`t do it last year, as the most recent example.

 

[bingle]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

First of all, congratulations Channel 7 on a terrificly unbiased commentary. You wouldnt have known who they were barracking for - its just a shame that Geelong ruined their day by winning.

Yes. Matthews and Committee made me want to take a sheet of sand paper to my eye balls. Committee was plotting Geelong's 3rd loss in a row from late in the 1st quarter up until early in the last and to get some Cats praise from Matthews was like getting blood out of a stone.
Aside from this, and this is the first time i've watched 7's Sunday football all year, i didnt realize how rediculously cluttered with advertising their coverage was. For a delayed telecast they certainly know how to drag the game out with their hopelessly long breaks between goals.
Glad it's the last time i'll have to put up with it for this year.

Rant aside i must admit i breathed a tad easier to see the team win with a dominant last quarter. Kudos to Christensen for a ripper game, what terrific attack he displays at stoppages and terrific ball winning ability he has. Love it! Also great to see a big bag for Pods. he certainly deserves it

 

[topic97]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Its funny you say that about their telecast, my dad was over when I was watching the footy and he made comment "why dont they just commentate on the footy like they do on the radio instead of going on with all this garbage you dont need to know"?!

Which is a good point, I think commentators have gotten lazy on tv

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

Yeah, my memory only lasts one year. Point is, 2010 was later than 2009, and 2011 is even later. I`m not saying we can`t do it, only that getting the old blokes up with perfect timing etc will only get harder, and we couldn`t do it last year, as the most recent example.

I think the vibe about the place is a tad better this year.

 

[Mark25Jackson]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

Ottens is 100 % better than he was a year ago. He has waned somewhat the last month or so, but seriously, he has been amazing this year. Last year we went in with him in horrible form and Blake.

Duncan, Menzel and Christensen have been a heap better this year.

We did struggle to put away a bottom 4 side, but look at form and reasons without having a fit. The Lions pushed Hawthorn right to the wire a week ago in Launny. That is a fortress to the Hawks. We were in Brisbane, having come from Perth, having had two 6 day breaks prior to that, missing Scarlett, Milburn, Ottens, Byrnes, Wojo and most likely Menzel from our best side. It's all good to cry and carry on thinking we are crap, but honestly, be fairdinkum and understand the whole situation our players are dealing with.

we'll get those boys home, get a couple of weeks regular training, sleeping in their own beds, players back, September vibes... we'll win the flag. I called it in 2009. Im calling it again. Pies will be spewing.

 

[you pick one]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Did you watch the game live? Hawkins was woeful Defensively and didn't put he's body on the line when the ball was on the ground. Several times he could of displayed defensive pressure and tackled but instead he just stood there and watched Brisbane run the ball out of defense. He needs a kick up the ass because against the better sides in the finals we will get murdered. No desperation defensively.

I was there Moondog wasn't only Hawkins,the Lions ran the ball out of our forward line with ease all day especially from the Eastern end of the ground along the northern wing,we had the 17/18 man forward press going and still couldn't force the turnover or lay tackles.

That's way to simplistic just to single out one player, and there are others in the side better equipped to apply that pressure.

Over all there was not a lot of desperation shown.4 points and no injuries(maybe H.Taylor leg)I'll take that mid July.

Strange to see the Cats with out the Lilly white legs this time of the year.

 

[bingle]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Its funny you say that about their telecast, my dad was over when I was watching the footy and he made comment "why dont they just commentate on the footy like they do on the radio instead of going on with all this garbage you dont need to know"?!

Which is a good point, I think commentators have gotten lazy on tv

i suppose they're a hell of a lot lazier because they dont hage to paint a picture like a radio commentator does. TV announcing often relies on images to do most of the work for them. im not sure if this is true or not but often i get the sense they are calling from the monitors rather than actually watching the action. If this is the case they might as well be doing it from their lounge rooms

 

[Mark25Jackson]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

We've been using that same excuse for the past 3 years when we are in a rut. Don't buy it anymore.

cos we've only won 2 Premierships in that time. Losers....

 

[Mark25Jackson]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

have posted this in another thread, but having just read Moondog post that he left the ground depressed and feeling that we have no chance of winning a lag.... Ill spell it out again for any other posters who feel the same way.

Geeong have in the last 3 weeks had 2 6 day breaks, followed by a trip to Perth, then straight to Brisbane. Caracella has confirmed we are 6 weeks into an 8 week heavy training block. That alone - 2 6 day breaks, followed by a road trip to fave the Eagles (footy's hardest roadtrip right now) then straight on to Brisbane/Gold Coast. thats massive alone. I travel a lot with work - in Bris at the moment. And can tell you as nice as it is to stay in 5 star hotels, you CAN NOT beat your own bed, routine etc. We've been fighting that.

Add to that the outs for this game. Ottens, Byrnes, Wojo (both those boys pace has been sorely missed.) Menzel Scarlett and Milburn. Thats 6 out of our best 22.

Add to that the reality that no side is gonna be "up" for 28 weeks straight. The fact people are wining and bitching that we are finished staggers me. Its not about excuses. Its about understanding that these are human beings being managed through a season of footy.

Oh and anyone sitting here potting Hawkins... He was tremendous yesterday. He may not have chased 100% flat stick, but his contribution was Mooney like. He gave a target, he brought the ball to ground. He split packs, he marked and kicked 3 goals. He made Pods job a whole lot easier. People potting him have ZERO knowledge or idea at all about footy. He was one of our bet yesterday.

 

[topic97]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

Whilst I am not too fussed that we arent thrashing teams by the margins we should be, we are definately down on form which is a bit worrying.
I just wonder if maybe Scotty is rotating players around a bit too much and its starting to have a negative effect on them in that they arent 100% sure what positon they are playing in.

Dunno, just a thought!! Still a fair way to go though!!

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Collingwood is superior to last year in talent, depth and structure.. There is a margin between them and the rest at their best. And don't underestimate the Blues who should have cleaned us up and a resurgent Hawthorn.

You're right insofar as we are a chance as are the Hawks and Blues. Nothing more.

We played the Blues right after the Collingwood match.

You have a look at how Collingwood went against Adelaide the next week after they played us. Adelaide were up on them most of the match and Collingwood looked very sore and sorry for themselves. We had a much bigger test that week in Carlton. We weren't up for Carlton. But we won anyway.

But Collingwood have no excuses against Carlton this time around, and it was a lot closer than 19 points suggests. Carlton kept coming at Collingwood. The margin is closing.

Even Sydney gave Collingwood a hell of a run for their money 2 weeks ago.

 

[Tackle_happy]

Re: Autopsy thread - Round 17 - Brisbane is defeated by Geelong by 29 points.

Did you watch the game live? Hawkins was woeful Defensively and didn't put he's body on the line when the ball was on the ground.

He looked listless at times just like the rest of the team. His improvements were in using his big frame to out mark an opponent. Even though his opponent was smaller, these are good signs because in the past is did not matter most of the time who his opponent was ... he struggled with that contested situation. Next is to get him leaping high and hard at the ball. Still not quite getting his timing right in that area.

Varcoe is the bigger concern in my opinion. Where he pulled out of a contest (running straight at the ball) and the Brisbane player picked it up and they ended up scoring from it ... he has no confidence in his shoulder from the looks.

 

[Claude Balls]

Re: Please can we get some perspective. Please.

I think the vibe about the place is a tad better this year.

Agree. I think with the benifit of hindsight in regard to last year, we have a better chance this year.