Preview AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch Discussion, DaVe 86's Preview -post 75, Teams - post 119

[Shade]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

SEN reporting that Hurley won't play.

If true Cloke could have a field day.

 

[James]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Dream Team bandaid says Didak has a hand injury - expected return Rd 22 WTF? I'm assuming this is a mistake. Can anyone here shed any light on this?

 

[mattys123]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Dream Team bandaid says Didak has a hand injury - expected return Rd 22 WTF? I'm assuming this is a mistake. Can anyone here shed any light on this?

Yeah it's a mistake, he will either return this week or next, more likely this week.

 

[James]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Yeah it's a mistake, he will either return this week or next, more likely this week.

Cheers, thanks Matty

 

[THATSGOLD]

Re: AFL Round 19 - COLL v ESSENDON Prematch and Selection Discussion

Yeah looking at that team again and what Essendon fielded last week I would probably leave a tall out for a runner.

Jolly rucking with Brown the back up (as per norm)

Tarrant and Reid taking Hille/Ryder and Carlisle

O'Brien on Crameri??

Of the players you bolded that leaves Cloke, Maxwell, Goldsack and Keeffe.

Cloke as our main target up forward

Maxwell obviously captain and general in defence

So who goes out Keeffe or Goldsack.

For versatility I would probably keep Goldsack in...

But Keeffe would be a very stiff omission after kicking 3 last week.

horses for courses probably goldsack gets left out. Keeffe more than likely to resume his center half forward line role in the absence of Dawes.

 

[FireKrakouer]

Re: AFL Round 19 - COLL v ESSENDON Prematch and Selection Discussion

Just watched this weeks B and W show on YouTube and at the end Shae McNamara said something like "hopefully I'll see you on the weekend". Could this be a hint that he's playing, or am I reading way too much into this? Most likely the latter, I know.

Would post the link but I'm on my phone. Should be easy to find.

 

[abs_of_STEELE]

Re: AFL Round 19 - COLL v ESSENDON Prematch and Selection Discussion

Just watched this weeks B and W show on YouTube and at the end Shae McNamara said something like "hopefully I'll see you on the weekend". Could this be a hint that he's playing, or am I reading way too much into this? Most likely the latter, I know.

Would post the link but I'm on my phone. Should be easy to find.

From what I know, Shae attends most games as I've seen him at a couple this year. He might've been talking about the VFL as well, who knows.

I guess we will see tomorrow!

 

[mattys123]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

It appears that Darren Jolly is a certainty to return this week, for his 200th AFL game. And it also looks like he hasn't had any problems with that knee since his operation.

Jolly, Wellers, Beams and Didak back this week, sorry Bombers.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/119583/default.aspx

On the eve of his 200th game this Sunday against Essendon, Jolly says the joint has responded well over the past two months and is unlikely to need more invasive treatment when the season's over.

"It's fine, it feels really good. The swelling has completely gone and I just needed to get the strength back in it so I'm getting back to normal now," he told afl.com.au this week.

"At this stage, I won't need anything done. I'll just have to wait and see but I hope not.

"I don't have to do anything to it now, just continue with weights and focus on getting the strength back in it."

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/119583/default.aspx

 

[Swooop]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

SEN reporting that Hurley won't play.

Apparently he's only got blisters, he should play unless they're really bad or infected or something.

Hope Jolly plays, but it sounds like he's still building up strength in the knee / quads, so they may not risk him.

Would be a great stage to play the 200th though.

 

[RuFiO]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Daisy deserves to be suspended for a few weeks by the club after having seen him and Adam Goodes filming that commercial they were doing today. Dunno if anyone saw it on the channel 10 news, but it was a shocker, much like his chips ad he did.

 

[Swooop]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Daisy deserves to be suspended for a few weeks by the club after having seen him and Adam Goodes filming that commercial they were doing today. Dunno if anyone saw it on the channel 10 news, but it was a shocker, much like his chips ad he did.

Didn't see the ad, but speaking of Daisy's being suspended, it was interesting to hear Dunstall criticise the Pies for putting Daisy back on with his corky ( which I don't disagree with) but the reason he gave was to do with things like Brownlow votes ( err, doubt it was for Brownlow votes )

Watching that show, gee Brad Scott is a great guy. Shame he's not with us still, but he had to be a senior coach.

 

[Shade]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Apparently he's only got blisters, he should play unless they're really bad or infected or something.

Hope Jolly plays, but it sounds like he's still building up strength in the knee / quads, so they may not risk him.

Would be a great stage to play the 200th though.

Blisters lol pathetic.

 

[mattys123]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Didn't see the ad, but speaking of Daisy's being susupended, it was interesting to hear Dunstall criticise the Pies for putting Daisy back on with his corky ( which I don't disagree with) but the reason he gave was to do with things like Brownlow votes ( err, doubt it was for Brownlow votes )

Welcome to AFL football now that the sub rule is in place, clubs are putting players back onto the field with "minor" injuries, rather then subbing them too early and placing themselves in a position where if they make the sub too early, then get another injury, it may well just cost them a game (or at least some percentage in our case).

The sub rule is not working, one sub is not enough, the AFL either has to scrap it or introduce a 2 sub system, because at the moment some players are actually being placed in harms way in a form that they weren't previous to the SR coming in.

I didn't like the sub rule from minute one, and I hate it even more now.

And just on the sub rule, does anyone have concerns that we haven't figured out how to use it properly in a game where we have no injuries?

2 weeks ago we didn't use it till halfway through the last quarter against the Blues, despite the game still being in the balance, and I don't think we have beaten any of our opposition so far this year in terms of "subbing a player for a non injury reason".

Just saying.

 

[Avatar]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

I didn't like the sub rule from minute one, and I hate it even more now.

And just on the sub rule, does anyone have concerns that we haven't figured out how to use it properly in a game where we have no injuries?

2 weeks ago we didn't use it till halfway through the last quarter against the Blues, despite the game still being in the balance, and I don't think we have beaten any of our opposition so far this year in terms of "subbing a player for a non injury reason".

Just saying.

Agreed, have not been a fan of the sub rule at all. I hated it to begin with and hate it just as much now.

In terms of us subbing well compared to other teams I think that our overall evenness of performance has meant we have hardly ever needed a big performance/spark from the sub. It may seem that other teams have subbed well, but that is often due to them having a player/players underperforming and a decent performance by the sub stands out more than our sub who is almost always joining a well performing unit.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

I think Jolly is a worry this year. He was great from the swans' game and on last year, whereas this year he has not even been able to play for significant periods of time. If he gets left out again this week my fears will be slightly increased.

 

[Swooop]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Agreed, have not been a fan of the sub rule at all. I hated it to begin with and hate it just as much now.

I also detest the sub rule and my main disappointment with it is that it hasn't been badly exposed enough for my liking this year, so far.

That could actually mean it's a good rule...but it isn't.

When it is badly exposed, and determines the outcome of a final, that's when it will come more into the firing line. Why wait till then..

Especially for finals - when it's season on the line...surely they can have three or even four subs for finals...one IMHO, is leaving results too vulnerable to injury, and deliberate injury, caused by the other team.

After all the investment by a team, the FD and coaches, it's players, supporters, sponsors etc put into a season...is it really fair that one team who suffers a bad corky and a head injury ( both deliberately inflicted) in the first qtr, is virtually out of the game...and if not by then, then when they also get a hammy in the second....then definitely game over.

Would anyone want that? ( except the gross underdogs who may have this route as their only chance)

And the problem with having a couple of extra subs in the finals is what exactly?

I'd hate to lose the GF like this...equally I'd hate to win a final like this where the opposition was decimated early and it was never a fair contest...hollow victory.

The concussion rule also hasn't had it's inconsistencies with interpretation exposed enough by fate this year either. But there have been significant irregularities there aswell, in terms of some staying off, others going back on.

These, plus the advantage rule, need major rethinks before next year hopefully.

 

[PieBeast]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

While I'm not a fan of the sub rule myself (doubt anyone is) its still a level playing field for everyone in case the injury occurs. Not AFL's fault Mick hasn't worked out how to use it to our best advantage yet.

 

[Daics35Marvel]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

I agree with most that the sub-rule is a load of BS. There was no need for it in the first place and the reason given for supposed injury prevention was based on very flimsy evidence.

But before we all go hating on the sub-rule, it's worth acknowledging that it has benefited us greatly. Most people feared that it may curtail one of our strengths (high rotations) but it has done the opposite by placing a bigger premium on fitness. Thanks to Arizona and Buttifant, we have a big edge in fitness over most sides as seen by our huge advantage in 4th quarters this year. Thanks Adrian Anderson.

 

[Swooop]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

I agree with most that the sub-rule is a load of BS. There was no need for it in the first place and the reason given for supposed injury prevention was based on very flimsy evidence.

But before we all go hating on the sub-rule, it's worth acknowledging that it has benefited us greatly. Most people feared that it may curtail one of our strengths (high rotations) but it has done the opposite by placing a bigger premium on fitness. Thanks to Arizona and Buttifant, we have a big edge in fitness over most sides as seen by our huge advantage in 4th quarters this year. Thanks Adrian Anderson.

Yes, that is a good point Daics.

PB, yes it is a level playing field all things being equal...but if Team a decides to try and exploit it by going in boots and all, or, Team B simply has a really unfortunate injury run, then you'd hate to see the course of a final changed because of that.

Sadly for some team, it may have to happen, before it is better addressed IMO.

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Yes, that is a good point Daics.

PB, yes it is a level playing field all things being equal...but if Team a decides to try and exploit it by going in boots and all, or, Team B simply has a really unfortunate injury run, then you'd hate to see the course of a final changed because of that.

Sadly for some team, it may have to happen, before it is better addressed IMO.

Games are (at least partly) decided by injury every almost year, there's not a lot they can do to legislate against plain old dumb luck.

 

[dingoboy]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

So was SEN's report on hurley not playing accurate?

 

[mattys123]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

Games are (at least partly) decided by injury every almost year, there's not a lot they can do to legislate against plain old dumb luck.

True, but the problem is that was one of the points of defense of the sub rule that the AFL has been banging on about, that the sub rule actually makes the game fairer.

And while their defense is that the sub covers that first injury quite well (and it does) they have failed to answer any questions on what happens if the teams gets that second or third injury, and the relative effect that has on a teams performance and eventually the result.

The AFL got this one wrong, everyone but them admits that.

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

True, but the problem is that was one of the points of defense of the sub rule that the AFL has been banging on about, that the sub rule actually makes the game fairer.

And while their defense is that the sub covers that first injury quite well (and it does) they have failed to answer any questions on what happens if the teams gets that second or third injury, and the relative effect that has on a teams performance and eventually the result.

If you've got 2 or 3 injuries, you're in deep diabolical - no getting around that with ANY rule, as far as I can see.

Having 2 or 3 or 4 subs would see coaches staging their changes through a match, then whinging if they got an injury after they'd used the subs; nothing's surer.
With (say) 3 game-ending injuries, you'd be knackered (either 4 down to 1 on the bench, or 3+sub down to 1, or 3+2 subs down to 2 compared to 1+2 sets of fresh legs)

The AFL got this one wrong, everyone but them admits that.

I appreciate that Malthouse was it's most vocal critic, but I still think it's a better looking game. Games are opening up & flowing more late in the piece, more like 90s footy.
The ongoing build up of fatigue is certainly a valid criticism. Coaches might have to revert to a more traditional style with less end-to-end work.

 

[DWil6]

Re: AFL Round 19 - Coll v Essendon Prematch and Selection Discussion

According to SEN injuries are down this year (not in our case) which further strengthens the AFL's case. Sadly.

 

[DaVe86]

R19 Match Preview: Collingwood v Essendon

Now up on the club website.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/119569/default.aspx

Another week, another blockbuster to preview.

Round 19 sees Collingwood host Essendon at the MCG this Sunday. The Bombers currently sit in ninth spot, and nearly every game from here is a mini-final as they battle it out for a top-eight position. On the other hand, Collingwood sits in the box seat to retain the minor premiership and the preparation for finals is well and truly under way.

Collingwood had a comfortable win over Gold Coast last week but was far from impressive. After half time, the Suns were able to break even with the Magpies. I don’t think Collingwood was overly impressive against Carlton the week prior either. Perhaps this is the calm before the storm for the Magpies as they begin to brace for a long finals campaign.

On the other hand, Essendon were mauled last week by Carlton and will enter this week’s game as extreme underdogs. The loss was disappointing for the Bombers as they were coming off three straight wins and were seemingly regaining some good form in the run home to finals. Essendon is undoubtedly suffering from a number of injuries, but should regain some key players this week including its skipper.

With such a disappointing loss to Carlton and with so much to play for, I expect the Bombers to come out fired up on Sunday. They have had a knack of troubling the top sides all year. Further, many teams have struggled to win after playing the Gold Coast in 2011 because the intensity is increased the following week.

The Run-Home
Collingwood has a good run home considering it still has to face Brisbane and Port Adelaide. The St. Kilda game in round 21 should be a beauty and a good test before finals. The Magpies then finish the season with games against Fremantle (in Perth), and Geelong. Although these are tough games, the Magpies will be looking at them as finals preparation and a chance to solidify the side.

Essendon has a tricky draw and it has to find a way to win four games from here. This is made increasingly difficult considering the Bombers have a bye in round twenty four which means that they may be in the position where they have to wait for certain to results to know their finals fate. They should be expected to win against Port Adelaide, but have really tough games against Sydney, West Coast and Western Bulldogs to come. It makes this Sunday’s game against Collingwood so important. A win against the odds gives the Bombers every chance to scrape into the final eight.

Injury Lists
At this time of the year, the availability and depth of the list is more important than ever. Both sides have experienced a few injury setbacks in recent rounds, but the Bombers have been harder hit than most sides.

Tayte Pears rejoins the injury list this round and is three weeks away from return. He joins Hocking and Hooker who will also miss three weeks. Lovett-Murray and Welsh will push for selection next week along with Hibberd. Winderlich, Lonergan and Dempsey will not return this season either. Hocking in particular is a massive blow for Essendon as he has been a real force through the middle.

Collingwood had a few withdrawals from its match against Gold Coast including Jolly and Wellingham. Dawes and Toovey will miss around two more matches, while Heath Shaw will not be eligible to play until first week of finals. Beams and Didak will be in a race to regain match fitness if they wish to force their way back into the side’s best 22.

At the Selection Table
Despite the long injury list, the Bombers are set to regain Jobe Watson and Dustin Fletcher. Their experience is crucial this week. Watson in particular will toughen the Bombers up around the stoppages, and Fletcher’s availability is crucial given the fact that Pears and Hooker are out. Also keep an eye out for Michael Ross who is in line for debut after solid VFL form.

Darren Jolly should return after he missed with the flu last week. If he plays, it will be his 200th senior game. Alan Didak also completed his first full training session since his injury and will be keen to return to the side to re-cement his position. Malthouse will be keen for Didak to regain his touch in the six weeks remaining before finals. Dayne Beams is available but may have to force his way back through the VFL. Sharrod Wellingham missed with a groin injury last week and should also come into contention.

Last Meeting
Collingwood has won the previous four encounters against Essendon. The last meeting between the two sides was on ANZAC Day back in round five where the Magpies won by 30 points. Nonetheless, the Bombers really pushed the Magpies all game and came within a kick in the last quarter. The fitness and relentless pressure of Collingwood eventually broke Essendon’s resistance and the final margin was quite comfortable.

Scott Pendlebury was declared the ANZAC Day medallist with 34 possessions and three goals. He also had eight tackles. Leon Davis also played a good game, starting in defence and pushing forward late. He picked up 28 disposals. Heath Shaw was also one of Collingwood’s best with 28 disposals playing more on a wing. Cloke continued his good form against Essendon with three goals.

For Essendon, Jobe Watson was the most prolific ball winner with 29 disposals. He also pushed forward at times and kicked a goal. Stewart Crameri impressed with four goals, while Stanton was prolific with 26 disposals.

Focus on Essendon
Essendon’s form has been inconsistent after a really impressive start to the year. However, the Bombers lift for big games, and they trouble most teams when their tackling pressure is switched on. With an undermanned defence, a lot is going to rely on the midfield to do well from the stoppages. David Hille and Ryder need big games as well, rotating between the forward line and the ruck.

Jake Melksham - Over the past month, Melksham has taken some really big steps in his AFL career. He has had 23 disposals two weeks in a row, and had 29 in the upset win over Geelong. He is the future of the midfield, and the Bombers need him to step up this Sunday.

David Zaharakis - Zaharakis is also becoming a really crucial player to the Bombers side. His past three weeks have been important to the side, picking up 27, 22 and 25 disposals. He has also kicked a goal in each of his last five games. His 22 disposals against Adelaide two weeks ago was vital as he only had two disposals in the first half and totally turned his game around. When he plays well, the Bombers have a bit more X-Factor. He typically likes the big stage as well.

Brent Stanton - A lot has been made of this guy in 2011, but it was revealed that he was playing through injuries earlier in the year. Over the last month, his form has really improved and he is averaging 25 disposals over this time. Although he is heavily criticised, he will be an important player on Sunday.

Focus on Collingwood
The Magpies need to be prepared for a bit more physicality than they experienced last week against Gold Coast. Collingwood has also been very inaccurate and wasteful in front of goal in recent weeks, and need to address this issue ASAP. Travis Cloke remains the key up forward and looks an unstoppable force.

Chris Tarrant - When the Pies played the Bombers in round five, Tarrant took the Hurley matchup and did a good job. However, there was a five-minute period where Tarrant went to the bench and Hurley kicked a few goals. Hurley is the focal point for Essendon and could be a key to this game. Therefore, Tarrant has another massive responsibility this week to shut him down. He is going to be one of Collingwood’s most important players in the finals series this year.

Scott Pendlebury - Pendlebury looms as the biggest threat to Chris Judd in this year’s Brownlow race. In particular, he loves playing Essendon and is always prolific. He was one of Collingwood’s best last week with 34 disposals and two goals. Pendlebury is enjoying the good form of Dale Thomas as it is giving him much more freedom as teams put their focus on Thomas.

Simon Buckley - Buckley has done everything right this year to hold his spot in the side. He was again good against Gold Coast and kicked another trademark 60-metre goal. However, he still faces an uphill battle to remain in the side with players like Shaw, Didak, Wellingham and Beams still to come back in. Malthouse has indicated it will be horses for courses when it comes to Buckley. All he can do in the mean time is to continue to perform.

The Wrap-Up
As I said earlier, Collingwood is not playing its best football just yet, but will look to continually build towards finals. This could be a sneaky opportunity for Essendon to cause an upset before the Pies look to hit peak form. However, the Bombers look undermanned on paper and will have to play four quarters of relentless football just to remain competitive.

I think the game could go much the same as it did in round five. The Bombers will push, but the Pies will be too strong as the match goes on. I can’t see the Essendon defence stopping Travis Cloke, and Collingwood’s midfield should run rampant without taggers like Hocking and Welsh to shut them down.

I’ve been pretty close with my margins over the last two weeks.

Pies by 23