Preview AFL Round 4 - Geelong v Richmond, Simonds Stadium, 1:10PM Sunday 22 April

[Partridge]

Another interesting selection issue this week is whether or not they go down the futile path of persisting with Tom Gillies.

Many seem to be presuming he will be an automatic out, but if his inclusion last week was for structural reasons as others have insisted, then if Smedts is absent for another week, Gillies should logically stay in the side (perish the thought).

Why is it futile? He wasn't our worst last week.

Now that West has improved, Gillies has clearly inherited the mantle of "though he's only played about 7 games there's absolutely no chance ever ever ever that he'll improve, even though Lonergan, Hawkins and West are very strong examples of how players develop at different speeds".

 

[AM]

Big Ivan been good for the Tigers so far playing a lone hand almost, with the occasional chop out by Vickery.Their no1 ruckman Angus Graham is back this week,which means Vickery can remain in the forward line all afternoon with Riewoldt.
You would want to hope we win in the ruck, or break even at least.

Maric is a battler. Vickery is fortunate to be the ones after recent form, though I agree he is a player in the making. And it's Graham's first hitout. None are Sandilands or Goldstein.

 

[Duskfire]

I dont know how Stokes keeps getting a game. He hasnt played a great game for about a season and a half. Doesnt get enough of the ball, doesnt kick goals, really I dont know what he does

 

[Baudolino]

Why is it futile? He wasn't our worst last week.

Now that West has improved, Gillies has clearly inherited the mantle of "though he's only played about 7 games there's absolutely no chance ever ever ever that he'll improve, even though Lonergan, Hawkins and West are very strong examples of how players develop at different speeds".

Sorry, I probably didn't explain myself well. I meant futile in the context of where Tom Gillies is as a player right now. Not in the context of where he is going to be in a year or two or whatever.

Maybe he will improve, I don't know. All I know is that right now he isn't good enough and the form he has shown at NAB and VFL level has not merited selection.

 

[vinum coupe]

Sorry, I probably didn't explain myself well. I meant futile in the context of where Tom Gillies is as a player right now. Not in the context of where he is going to be in a year or two or whatever.

Maybe he will improve, I don't know. All I know is that right now he isn't good enough and the form he has shown at NAB and VFL level has not merited selection.

There are a bunch of players going out this weekend that are not best 22.
1/2 the team should not be there.

Except Motlop. I will spew if I dont see that kid in September.

 

[muttweed]

Sorry, I probably didn't explain myself well. I meant futile in the context of where Tom Gillies is as a player right now. Not in the context of where he is going to be in a year or two or whatever.

Maybe he will improve, I don't know. All I know is that right now he isn't good enough and the form he has shown at NAB and VFL level has not merited selection.

I had those thoughts till recently.

However I thought he was better than his expectations last week.

VFL and AFL are different things. Some people are shit in the AFL, but awesome in the VFL and vice versa. Accept it.

Besides physical performance, it may be a mental thing. Gillies won't improve without any motivation. There's a triple premiership defense waiting in the best 22, he must be putting himself under so much pressure. Guthrie, T Hunt, Menz, Dunc and Bundy didn't have this problem.

Hawkins did though. Who's to say Gillies doesn't?


The funny thing is you all expect him to come in and direct and dominate play like Scarlo would. No. Give him time, he will come good.

If I told you Hawkins would be our best 2011 finals player and would probably become one of our top 5 players in 2012 this time last year, would you believe me? Nah. You're all so hard on Gil

 

[Boxhead_31]

There are a bunch of players going out this weekend that are not best 22.
1/2 the team should not be there.

Except Motlop. I will spew if I dont see that kid in September.

Agree VC the kid could be a difference maker come finals time has good pace an a tonne of skill

 

[vinum coupe]

Good post Mutty !!

 

[SpRiGgZy]

Simonds Stadium

obviously that would be my first choice but i was one of the many who missed out on tickets to the game so i need somewhere else to watch

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I had those thoughts till recently.

However I thought he was better than his expectations last week.

VFL and AFL are different things. Some people are shit in the AFL, but awesome in the VFL and vice versa. Accept it.

Besides physical performance, it may be a mental thing. Gillies won't improve without any motivation. There's a triple premiership defense waiting in the best 22, he must be putting himself under so much pressure. Guthrie, T Hunt, Menz, Dunc and Bundy didn't have this problem.

Hawkins did though. Who's to say Gillies doesn't?


The funny thing is you all expect him to come in and direct and dominate play like Scarlo would. No. Give him time, he will come good.

If I told you Hawkins would be our best 2011 finals player and would probably become one of our top 5 players in 2012 this time last year, would you believe me? Nah. You're all so hard on Gil

I don't necessary agree with your post overall but that bit's not true IMO. They all did, arguably Bundy had to push Milburn out to play in a premiership, Duncan had to force his way in. And they've all performed at the lower level.

While I didn't really understand why Gillies has copped so much criticism after Sunday, it's not fair to say he's under more pressure than the rest.

They are all under pressure trying to break into this side.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It'd be nice if Byrnes and Stokes could get a kick this week. Ideally they are part of the second-tier midfield rotation.

But Shan and Stokes have never been particularly good as significant midfield contributors. Don't get me wrong they are very good small forwards especially considering where we drafted them, but they don't offer the same level in the mids that they do in the forward line IMO. As much as Stokes coming back in this week will help the team, we really also needed to bolster the midfield IMO.

 

[SJ]

I agree they can't do it on their own, but they can certainly play their part.

Stokes averaged a career-high 18 touches a year last year, and Byrnes hit 19 in 2009. Both of them are current running at half that at the moment.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Re: Wanted: Geelong vs Richmond ticket

I can't say I am super confident, not after (i) the way we played for 3 quarters last week, (2) the way Richmond beat us at home in the NAB, and (3) with James Kelly out.

But, if the 4Q v Nth is any indication, the lads will rebound. If Stokes plays I predict he will kick 4 goals. And, could Stevie J have another shocker?

Richmond's weakness is its defence. Cats by 65 points

I agree with your opening paragraph-but how you could tip us by65 points-i wouldnt want my life riding on this game -we have quite a few inexperienced unproven players in the team. What i didnt like last week was Chapman and Corey not really chasing. The market is Geelong $1.17 Richmond $5.00 -i reckon thats bullsht -should be more like G $1.60 R $2.80

 

[footscore]

Re: Wanted: Geelong vs Richmond ticket

-should be more like G $1.60 R $2.80

If Geelong were that price, bookies would be feeling the pinch by the end of the day

No way Geelong lose this match and even if Richmond play their best football for years, it's still going to be 6 goals behind our effort.

 

[thejester]

I dont know how Stokes keeps getting a game. He hasnt played a great game for about a season and a half. Doesnt get enough of the ball, doesnt kick goals, really I dont know what he does

He hasn't been playing well this year, but where does this stuff come from? He kicked 29 goals last year - fourth overall for Geelong.

 

[muttweed]

I don't necessary agree with your post overall but that bit's not true IMO. They all did, arguably Bundy had to push Milburn out to play in a premiership, Duncan had to force his way in. And they've all performed at the lower level.

While I didn't really understand why Gillies has copped so much criticism after Sunday, it's not fair to say he's under more pressure than the rest.

They are all under pressure trying to break into this side.

I know, and that's why Gillies needs to improve the way he plays as well. I didn't say the mental aspect was the only reason he isn't performing too well atm

 

[you pick one]

He hasn't been playing well this year, but where does this stuff come from? He kicked 29 goals last year - fourth overall for Geelong.

I blame PO for it on this board, he hasn't been a fan in the year and a bit that I've been on here anyway and that's fine it's a democracy after all,I also think there are a few sheep on the board and he is a good Shepherd.
Do your own thing people liven the board up a bit,wish someone anyone would just come out and say this is the worst side Geelong have put on the park in 5 years this week.Oops it's going to be another one of those days

 

[Poetic Justice]

Well to be blunt, let's reiterate what Chris Scott was all about prior to getting the gig with the Cats. What was the theory? We're all about 2015 as much as 2011.

So with that said, if fielding a "worst" side - and let's just say now that there are much worse sides than Geelong's worst - means that we are going to end up in a position where we have another 3+ year premiership window from 2015 onwards then I'm all for it.

We don't have to be clear on top of the ladder all year in 2012, 2013, 2014. We need to be competitive. So far, we've been competitive. Yes, the NM game was bad. The freo game which we all know about was simply a case of letting them get the jump on us when we shouldn't have and we were extremely well to get back to where we were. In fact I don't know many of todays teams that fight back from 5-6 goal defecits and do it well. The Hawthorn game, as we know, we were tough as nails and it was always going to be a hard and close game.

So in short, I'd be still happy to be in the eight this year, compete in finals and not be a cellar dweller.

But as with anyone, of course we wish to keep doing extremely well.

 

[candiehappy]

Well to be blunt, let's reiterate what Chris Scott was all about prior to getting the gig with the Cats. What was the theory? We're all about 2015 as much as 2011.

So with that said, if fielding a "worst" side - and let's just say now that there are much worse sides than Geelong's worst - means that we are going to end up in a position where we have another 3+ year premiership window from 2015 onwards then I'm all for it.

We don't have to be clear on top of the ladder all year in 2012, 2013, 2014. We need to be competitive. So far, we've been competitive. Yes, the NM game was bad. The freo game which we all know about was simply a case of letting them get the jump on us when we shouldn't have and we were extremely well to get back to where we were. In fact I don't know many of todays teams that fight back from 5-6 goal defecits and do it well. The Hawthorn game, as we know, we were tough as nails and it was always going to be a hard and close game.

So in short, I'd be still happy to be in the eight this year, compete in finals and not be a cellar dweller.

But as with anyone, of course we wish to keep doing extremely well.

spot on. I don't know if this is our worst team for a fair while but it is a really interesting list. I'm enjoying seeing the future of the club running around. I'm not doom and gloom about this season (yet!) but if it's a slip back before a stepup, so be it.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

spot on. I don't know if this is our worst team for a fair while but it is a really interesting list. I'm enjoying seeing the future of the club running around. I'm not doom and gloom about this season (yet!) but if it's a slip back before a stepup, so be it.

I'd be surprised if we drop this one but I agree we have to be realistic and accept that we have gone down the curve slightly ( and for understandable reasons) whilst others will be on the rise. In addition to that we will be hunted as a prize scalp as we are the reigning Premiers

Our challenge is to stay in contention whilst rebuilding gradually. Totally support our youth policy and our willingness to get games into our future champions - as others have said it's about the future as well as the present. Most players need time to add value to the team so we need to be patient with the Gillies , Stephensons and Guthries of this world - they will either make it or be replaced by another young potential. That is what the Coaches are paid for and I have every confidence in them doing that for the betterment of the Team.

We have to realise that during this phase we are going to drop games and the days of 14-0 starts are in the future ( hopefully) not the present. We have been spoilt since 2007 but the good news is we are still very much in contention to play finals , hopefully from a top 4 spot.

 

[you pick one]

Well to be blunt, let's reiterate what Chris Scott was all about prior to getting the gig with the Cats. What was the theory? We're all about 2015 as much as 2011.

So with that said, if fielding a "worst" side - and let's just say now that there are much worse sides than Geelong's worst - means that we are going to end up in a position where we have another 3+ year premiership window from 2015 onwards then I'm all for it.

We don't have to be clear on top of the ladder all year in 2012, 2013, 2014. We need to be competitive. So far, we've been competitive. Yes, the NM game was bad. The freo game which we all know about was simply a case of letting them get the jump on us when we shouldn't have and we were extremely well to get back to where we were. In fact I don't know many of todays teams that fight back from 5-6 goal defecits and do it well. The Hawthorn game, as we know, we were tough as nails and it was always going to be a hard and close game.

So in short, I'd be still happy to be in the eight this year, compete in finals and not be a cellar dweller.

But as with anyone, of course we wish to keep doing extremely well.

Bravo,chaos that's what we need to generate some health intelligent debate to hell with wishy washy excuses and sniping the previous poster for their honest opinion, lets all drill down a bit deeper and see whats really going on and where we are at.
Me, I'll be happy to come away with any sort of win this week given our personal.

I'm still hopeful we can be 7 and 4 at the bye,with a couple of players to come back in,and reassess our chances then.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

B: Enright, Lonergan, Gillies
HB: Mackie, Taylor, Guthrie
C: Christensen, Selwood, Motlop
HF: Johnson, Hawkins, Duncan
F: Stokes, Podsiadly, Chapman
R: West, Corey, Bartel
I/C: T.Hunt, Stephenson, Horlin-Smith
Sub: Stringer
Emg: Byrnes, Schroder, J. Hunt

Of the players who were named on the bench, barring any unknown injuries, you'd have to think Duncan and Stephenson are certainties and Stringer's promotion, coupled with the fact that Kelly is out, suggests he'll be in, as well. I would be surprised to see Josh Hunt come straight in, given Chris Scott's post-match comments on Sunday, but who knows? I reckon if he was coming straight back in, he'd be in the XVIII and Gillies would be on the extended bench. Byrnes needs a week or two in the VFL to get a few touches; he's not that far off it. As for Schroder, it's good to see he's getting very close, but i just can't find a spot for him this week. And, as others have said, it's very disappointing that so many players are going past Hogan, but he's still got time.

Interesting to see Mitch Brown not an emergency after his great performance at VFL-level last week. Wouldn't have been a terrible idea to give Brown a run (which he probably deserved anyway) and see how the developing Richmond defence coped with Hawkins, Podsiadly and Brown. I think Rance will be able to do a reasonable job on his opponent, but I think Grimes will have his work cut out for him, either on Pods or Hawkins. We are desperate for some goals from Chappy, Johnson and Stokes as well, I'd be hoping for five combined. No-one really stands out as a sub option, I guess Horlin-Smith could get it again (though I think he did more than enough to get a full game) and with Kelly out, we probably need more than a third/quarter of a game from Stringer. Stokes is probably the other option. I've put Stringer there for now, but I hope he isn't.

Angus Graham has come in (on an extended bench), so it will be interesting to see if they play him and leave Vickery as a permanent forward. I think they will, as they probably see our backline as a bit iffy, without Scarlett (and Wojcinski and possibly J.Hunt). Assuming they have Vickery, Riewoldt and Miller up there, I think it has to be Domsy to Vickery, Taylor to Riewoldt and Gillies to Miller. I seem to remember Miller getting a hold of Gillies in the VFL a couple of years ago, but he's not a focal point like he is at VFL level (though he has been reasonable, from what I've seen, this year). Domsy and Gillies can always switch, if required, or Mackie could play on Miller as well and try to run off him a bit.

McGuane is another interesting inclusion; surely they won't bring him in, unless someone is under a fitness cloud. My guess is he was just insurance, in case we had gone tall in the forward line. you can bank on Foley and Grigg getting a game, from the players on their extended bench and I think A.Maric would be a chance to try to create something for them up forward. If A.Maric gets a game, he'd be an obvious match-up for Poodle/Guthrie in our backline. It's between Ellis (small defender) and Maric (small forward) for the final spot, for mine and I think whoever wins that battle will be the sub.

B: Morris, Rance, Newman
HB: Batchelor, Grimes, Houli
C: Foley, Martin, Deledio
HF: Edwards, Vickery, Conca
FF: Nahas, Riewoldt, Miller
R: I.Maric, Cotchin, Grigg
I/C: Jackson, Tuck, Graham
Sub: Ellis/A.Maric
Emg: Ellis/A.Maric, McGuane, White

The Tigers midfield concerns me, espcially if I.Maric is giving them first use. Our midfield must step up at the stoppages. If we're winning the clearances, you'd have to look at their backline and our forwardline and say it's going to be a long day for Richmond. But it could very easily go the other way with their tall targets, if they get on top in the centre.

Ultimately, I think we'll do enough, but it's not going to be a walk in the park. Cats by 34.

 

[you pick one]

B: En right, Logan, Gillie's
HBO: Mickie, Taylor, Guthrie
C: Christensen, Elwood, Mot lop
HF: Johnson, Hawkins, Duncan
F: Stokes, Podiatry, Chapman
R: West, Corey, Bartel
I/C: T.Hunt, Stephenson, Harlin-Smith
Sub: Stringer
Meg: Byrne's, Schroeder, J. Hunt

Of the players who were named on the bench, barring any unknown injuries, you'd have to think Duncan and Stephenson are certainties and Stringer's promotion, coupled with the fact that Kelly is out, suggests he'll be in, as well. I would be surprised to see Josh Hunt come straight in, given Chris Scott's post-match comments on Sunday, but who knows? I reckon if he was coming straight back in, he'd be in the XVIII and Gillie's would be on the extended bench. Byrne's needs a week or two in the VLF to get a few touches; he's not that far off it. As for Schroeder, it's good to see he's getting very close, but i just can't find a spot for him this week. And, as others have said, it's very disappointing that so many players are going past Hogan, but he's still got time.

Interesting to see Mitch Brown not an emergency after his great performance at VLF-level last week. Wouldn't have been a terrible idea to give Brown a run (which he probably deserved anyway) and see how the developing Richmond defense coped with Hawkins, Podiatry and Brown. I think Rance will be able to do a reasonable job on his opponent, but I think Grimes will have his work cut out for him, either on Pods or Hawkins. We are desperate for some goals from Choppy, Johnson and Stokes as well, I'd be hoping for five combined. No-one really stands out as a sub option, I guess Harlin-Smith could get it again (though I think he did more than enough to get a full game) and with Kelly out, we probably need more than a third/quarter of a game from Stringer. Stokes is probably the other option. I've put Stringer there for now, but I hope he isn't.

Angus Graham has come in (on an extended bench), so it will be interesting to see if they play him and leave Vickers as a permanent forward. I think they will, as they probably see our back line as a bit iffy, without Scarlett (and Nijinsky and possibly J.Hunt). Assuming they have Vickers, Reinold and Miller up there, I think it has to be Dom's to Vickers, Taylor to Reinold and Gillie's to Miller. I seem to remember Miller getting a hold of Gillie's in the VLF a couple of years ago, but he's not a focal point like he is at VLF level (though he has been reasonable, from what I've seen, this year). Dom's and Gillie's can always switch, if required, or Mickie could play on Miller as well and try to run off him a bit.

McGuire is another interesting inclusion; surely they won't bring him in, unless someone is under a fitness cloud. My guess is he was just insurance, in case we had gone tall in the forward line. you can bank on Foley and Gregg getting a game, from the players on their extended bench and I think A.Mauriac would be a chance to try to create something for them up forward. If A.Mauriac gets a game, he'd be an obvious match-up for Poodle/Guthrie in our back line. It's between Ellis (small defender) and Mauriac (small forward) for the final spot, for mine and I think whoever wins that battle will be the sub.

B: Morris, Rance, Newman
HBO: Bachelor, Grimes, Holli
C: Foley, Martin, Dueled
HF: Edwards, Vickers, Conga
FF: Na has, Reinold, Miller
R: I.Mauriac, Cochin, Gregg
I/C: Jackson, Tuck, Graham
Sub: Ellis/A.Mauriac
Meg: Ellis/A.Mauriac, McGuire, White

The Tigers midfield concerns me, especially if I.Mauriac is giving them first use. Our midfield must step up at the stoppages. If we're winning the clearances, you'd have to look at their back line and our forward line and say it's going to be a long day for Richmond. But it could very easily go the other way with their tall targets, if they get on top in the centerer.

Ultimately, I think we'll do enough, but it's not going to be a walk in the park. Cats by 34.

Nice work Mc.E.D.

One question do you tag this week considering what happened last week?
and if yes who?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Nice work Mc.E.D.

One question do you tag this week considering what happened last week?
and if yes who?

Assuming it's Poodle who would be doing the tagging, I'd suggest Cotchin or Tuck. On what we've seen so far, he's done an exceptional job on an inside midfielder, who takes his opposition to the ball and he got a bit lost when he was up against an outside mid who likes to receive the ball in space. There's a bunch of options, but Cotchin and Tuck look like the most obvious to me. You could try him on Martin, who's a bit down at the moment, but chopped us up in the practice match, though I'm not sure Poodle could go with Martin...he's a beast. Deledio could also be an option, assuming he plays in the midfield, but if he does, I reckon he'd be playing a Boomer-esque role, which didn't really work. If you stop Cotchin or Tuck's access to the ball at the stoppages, Martin, Foley and Deledio aren't getting as much easy ball and it snowballs from there (hopefully).

 

[vinum coupe]

Tuck is out