Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XI - McKay. Goldstein. Gresham. Duursma!

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See all the movements from the 2023 trade period.

www.essendonfc.com.au

 

[jannissary]

Has he been mismanaged though? He's played 16 (2 SANFL games), 11 (8), 11 (2) games in the last three years s its as much about his fitness as it is about his form.

If this bloke was picked in the 30's people would be "yeah, fair deal, straight swap" but because he has a 1 in front of his draft pick it (apparently) automatically makes him more valuable.

By a fair few Port supporters own admission Xavier has been underwhelming, now that the opportunity to move him on, he's turned into someone he's not, has never been, small chance it happening but has shown very little years ago f his ceiling.


BZT for Xavier is a fair deal, some haggling may get done over picks but that is semantics. We probably won even use the pick we get from Port.

did you watch him in their finals campaign? both of his games that he played he was shocking. didn't look like he knew what he was doing out there. i think a straight swap of BZT is a loss for us because he just looked ordinary to me

 

[faible]

Can’t believe Gold Coast are going to give hollands away for almost nothing. No wonder they constantly screw up their list, Cameron is an idiot

They’ve been gifted three top 20 kids via their NGA. They don’t care.

 

[nipst@r]

Has he been mismanaged though? He's played 16 (2 SANFL games), 11 (8), 11 (2) games in the last three years s its as much about his fitness as it is about his form.

If this bloke was picked in the 30's people would be "yeah, fair deal, straight swap" but because he has a 1 in front of his draft pick it (apparently) automatically makes him more valuable.

By a fair few Port supporters own admission Xavier has been underwhelming, now that the opportunity to move him on, he's turned into someone he's not, has never been, small chance it happening but has shown very little years ago f his ceiling.


BZT for Xavier is a fair deal, some haggling may get done over picks but that is semantics. We probably won even use the pick we get from Port.

Yeah he has played roughly 15 games each year and had a few injuries so think he has been given opportunity and managed well by port.

 

[doug85]

Can’t believe Gold Coast are going to give hollands away for almost nothing. No wonder they constantly screw up their list, Cameron is an idiot

I think we’ll find out next year whether Hollands is a bust. If he stinks it up, GCS we’re totally right to let him go.

 

[Vindicater]

Why do people keep saying Tsatas has potential as a winger.

He is a burst player with tank issues for ****s sake.

It's like saying Usain Bolt could compete in a marathon.

 

[Yoda_]

Why do people keep saying Tsatas has potential as a winger.

He is a burst player with tank issues for *s sake.

It's like saying Usain Bolt could compete in a marathon.

because Usain Bolt would start in the 1/4 marathon before moving up to the 1/2 marathon and ending up after training to a full marathon

 

[nipst@r]

Why do people keep saying Tsatas has potential as a winger.

He is a burst player with tank issues for *s sake.

It's like saying Usain Bolt could compete in a marathon.

A lot of draft reviews, U18 describe him as a wingman.

His body composition looks more like a wingman to me but maybe it's just his odd running reminds me of Durham's who also has odd style but noted the concerns on tank so maybe HB initially.

What do you see him as?

 

[yodellinhank]

I'd probably put Bolt at half back and Tsatas can run to Marathon.

 

[Vindicater]

because Usain Bolt would start in the 1/4 marathon before moving up to the 1/2 marathon and ending up after training to a full marathon

And would not go close to winning it at the top level.

 

[Vindicater]

A lot of draft reviews, U18 describe him as a wingman.

His body composition looks more like a wingman to me but maybe it's just his odd running reminds me of Durham's who also has odd style but noted the concerns on tank so maybe HB initially.

What do you see him as?

He is a burst from stoppages midfielder. He should be hunting the ball and driving it forward.

I would not trust Tsatas to hold his shape enough on a wing. Plus Making him a distance runner would mean we are not bulking him up enough to burst packs.

 

[BrunoV]

BZT's contract offers was low balled.

We're pretending we want to retain BZT for negotiating purposes. We've added McKay and re-signed Baldwin. BZT is out of contract so Port has that leverage. It knows what BZT was offered because his manager tells them to get the deal moving.

On the other hand Port is pretending like it hasnt shown its hand by making Duursma available.

Duursma probably has a more transferable AFL game and is a better player. But he's in a trough. BZT is probably at his highest realistic value.

I'd say the hold up here is really Geelong. It's not yet obvious how that deal gets done. I genuinely think they're going to try to keep Esava.

 

[Yoda_]

Wonder if this is actually a thing?

 

[Call Me Cake]

BZT's position is more lucrative. Based on supply and demand, he is more valuable at the moment. Especially to a club that isn't going to play him as their #1 KPF.

Also, if I was BZT and Port weren't willing to do a straight swap, I'd be offended by that. They know he wants to play for them, they tell him they want him, but then they're saying "you're not worth the same as this other guy that doesn't want to play for us". Way to shoot a new recruit's confidence before he's even arrived. Flogs.

 

[hurlygurdy]

So ignoring this objectively poor list management decision - why have you completely written off Duursma? He has the scope to be better than Durham, easily.

I ****ing loved what I saw of Durham this year. He faded which is no more than I expected, but before that he was reminding me of Darren Millane. A genuine hard arsed winger. Duursma looked flashy early on but you can’t say he has better scope anymore imo.

 

[fairbump_playon]

I ******* loved what I saw of Durham this year. He faded which is no more than I expected, but before that he was reminding me of Darren Millane. A genuine hard arsed winger. Duursma looked flashy early on but you can’t say he has better scope anymore imo.

If Durham starts grabbing some of the marks he gets his hands on... look out.

Tho... that's a big if.

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

Then just play Tsatas, Shiel or, God help us, Heppell off a wing. That scenario is not worth investing 4 years into a C-grader like Duursma. 2 years with a trigger for 3 if he hits certain KPIs.

Heppel and Shiel are awful on the wing and Tsatas has played 4 games. Duursma could be a legit A grade wing if he gets up and going and wings are starting to have a big influence on games the way they are played these days.

 

[hurlygurdy]

You only need a few of your stars to fire to win games or limit heavy losses. That's what I'm talking about. We don't have enough top end talent to drag the whole team over the line the way other teams have it.

McKay is capable, but even when he was injured and even when Curnow had a bad finals series, players like Walsh dragged them over the line not once but in two finals.

I feel like we don't have enough players who are able to do that, hence why we never compete in any EF. Even when underperforming, a team with a lot of A-graders that are consistent don't lose the way we constantly do. We always lose heavy margins every year because we rely on every one of our team to be consistent which isn't going to happen. If we can have 3-5 A-graders that can take control of the game, then we give ourselves more chances to win more games.

No matter how bad Carlton were from 2020 to 2023, they only lost above 35 three times in 4 seasons.

Carlton losses above 35 points

2021:
95 points away vs Port
39 points vs North Melbourne

2023:
56 points away vs Adelaide

Meanwhile, we played finals during that time.

Essendon losses above 35 points

2020:
42 points vs Bulldogs
50 points away vs Port
63 points vs Brisbane
66 points vs Geelong

2021 (finals):
39 points vs Richmond
41 points vs Geelong
49 points vs Bulldogs (EF)
54 points vs Port away
57 points vs Brisbane away

2022:
48 points vs Fremantle
58 points vs Sydney away
66 points vs Geelong
66 points vs Richmond
84 points vs Port

2023:
41 points vs Bulldogs
42 points vs Brisbane away
70 points vs Collingwood
77 points vs Geelong
126 points vs GWS

Let's go back to 2019 when we played finals and they were bottom 4 bad.

Carlton losses above 35 points:
41 points vs Essendon
58 points vs North Melbourne
68 points vs Geelong
93 points vs GWS

Essendon losses above 35 points (played finals):
55 points vs West Coast (EF)
59 points vs Port
72 points vs GWS away
104 points vs Bulldogs

Now why does a bottom 4 side have less severe losses than a top 8 side? It was well documented that Carlton had less "quality depth" than we had. It's because we don't have many A-graders compared to a side like Carlton that can either stem the tide or influence the game.
We desperately need more A-graders that can influence games and take it from opposition given that it'll take some time to build quality depth.

Quoted for effort
Fwiw (unlike the doomsayers) I think we have a chance at getting your extra A graders next season. So many players made big moves this year.

 

[andleanback]

I like him. He's your classic 18th-22nd best player in the 22. Good honest player but he is what he is. Duursma has a higher ceiling and has been mismanaged under Hinkley.

Does duursma have a higher ceiling?
Isn’t good in contested situations
Isn’t tough and can’t tackle
Isn’t a great ball user

Durham is the opposite of that, just needs to improve his kicking a tad.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Heppel and Shiel are awful on the wing and Tsatas has played 4 games. Duursma could be a legit A grade wing if he gets up and going and wings are starting to have a big influence on games the way they are played these days.

Well that's a big "if", isn't it? Not sure I'd wanna invest 4 years to find out the answer. Martin and Durham are both ahead of him on performance the last 2 years and still have potential in them as well.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Heppel and Shiel are awful on the wing and Tsatas has played 4 games. Duursma could be a legit A grade wing if he gets up and going and wings are starting to have a big influence on games the way they are played these days.

Have you looked into him in detail? It’s almost pie in the sky stuff at this stage. He is headed firmly in the wrong direction. He is moving in order to get one more decent contract. Weideman all over again

 

[andleanback]

They’ve been gifted three top 20 kids via their NGA. They don’t care.

And? None of them are a hollands type so they don’t really affect him.
You don’t just throw away elite talent for nothing
Poor list management and strategy
Watch him be the next gun Gc gave away for kittle and blows up in their face.

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

Does duursma have a higher ceiling?
Isn’t good in contested situations
Isn’t tough and can’t tackle
Isn’t a great ball user

Durham is the opposite of that, just needs to improve his kicking a tad.

Duursma is tougher than some people give him credit for on here.

Also, is Durham really any better of a tackler?

 

[faible]

And? None of them are a hollands type so they don’t really affect him.
You don’t just throw away elite talent for nothing
Poor list management and strategy
Watch him be the next gun Gc gave away for kittle and blows up in their face.

And they don’t care, as I said. They just keep getting looked after, they’ve never had a reason to care.

 

[andleanback]

Duursma is tougher than some people give him credit for on here.

Also, is Durham really any better of a tackler?

From what I’ve seen over duursma over the past 24 months he isn’t tough at all. In the final he look petrified to be out there.

Definitely a better tackler than duursma

 

[andleanback]

And they don’t care, as I said. They just keep getting looked after, they’ve never had a reason to care.

Yeh and it’s stupid. He’s a better player than all of their academy picks except Walter.