Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[The Cryptkeeper]

never has is a choice as is never will

they can also build their own like they can now, but this is just creating a problem that isn't a problem compared to people being homeless without a choice like we have now



i don't care about creating a market for people that want to rent luxury housing


we have less than 4% of dwelling in this country be public or social housing

compared to 1981 housing stock as more than doubled and social housing has gone up about 50%

England has 17% of dwelling be social housing

netherlands is 29% which would almost exactly cover our rental requirements here currently

What is the right level of social housing for Australia? | AHURI

In the 40 years between 1981 and 2021 the percentage of all Australian households living in social housing has ranged from 4.9 per cent in 1981 to 3.8 per cent in 2021. Such a drop in the proportion of social housing raises the question of has Australia achieved the balance right, and also just...

www.ahuri.edu.au

there is so much more than could be done than what we have done and continue to do

and yes it is possible to have all the rental stock be government owned if we chose to go down that path

stopping people turning residential stock into short stay accommodation is a relatively simple one

removing the incentives to have investment properties that cost tens of billions every year and putting that money into well run and maintained public housing instead would be great, including buying existing stock where appropriate

What you are talking about here is a greater share of public housing. But your comment is that you do not believe anybody should own an investment property and I am here to tell you that this idea is neither possible, nor desirable.

I can absolutely agree with you that there is the need for major reform but there will also always be the need for housing that is not government funded because like it or not, there is a rental market for more upscale property that the government would never fund, nor would the taxpayers allow them to.

Whether or not you are interested in that market is a moot point because that market will always be there. So explain to me how that would work in your utopian world.

 

[Gralin]

What you are talking about here is a greater share of public housing. But your comment is that you do not believe anybody should own an investment property and I am here to tell you that this idea is neither possible, nor desirable.

I do love a better things aren't possible, its a real classic of current centrist rhetoric

I can absolutely agree with you that there is the need for major reform but there will also always be the need for housing that is not government funded because like it or not, there is a rental market for more upscale property that the government would never fund, nor would the taxpayers allow them to.

Whether or not you are interested in that market is a moot point because that market will always be there. So explain to me how that would work in your utopian world.

Maybe we should fix the problem of people living in cars because there isn't enough public housing before we worry about what the rich want?

Dunno, seems like a better place to start to me, you know fix the problem of need before you worry about the issue of want

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Excellent.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/fuelguzzling-yank-tanks-face-a-costly-future-in-australia-after-new-vehicle-emissions-changes-approved/news-story/74a2d0769d74aa542f9c200bf2a9d07c

If you drive one of these things you can suck my baws.

 

[Kram]

I get all of that.

But social housing never has and never will provide enough houses to sustain everybody who wants/needs to rent. Also, there is a certain demographic that may well want to rent properties that are bigger and nicer than those that the government will build.

How do you propose to create a market for those people if you don't believe in the private ownership of investment property? Are you seriously suggesting that all residential rental property in this country by state owned and controlled?

My problem with it is that in WA at least is once someone is in one they can trash the place as much as they want along with constantly engaging in antisocial behaviour and obviously never get kicked out. It's only a small % of tenants overall but if you luck out and have some near you it just ruins your whole neighbourhood.

I honestly can't wait to move to an area where there is little to none of it around.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I do love a better things aren't possible, its a real classic of current centrist rhetoric



Maybe we should fix the problem of people living in cars because there isn't enough public housing before we worry about what the rich want?

Dunno, seems like a better place to start to me, you know fix the problem of need before you worry about the issue of want

No mate, you have not addressed my question. You have simply pointed and asked me to "look over there."

You said that nobody should own investment property. Let's stick with that for now because I have told you why this is not possible. Unless of course you support state ownership of properties that cater for all tastes and budgets.

 

[Gralin]

No mate, you have not addressed my question. You have simply pointed and asked me to "look over there."

You said that nobody should own investment property. Let's stick with that for now because I have told you why this is not possible. Unless of course you support state ownership of properties that cater for all tastes and budgets.

again because it seems to be something you don't understand

Residential Property should not be an investment asset

housing should not be for profit

that is my position

you can come up with whatever scenario you want as to why it should be and my response will be

no it shouldn't

housing should be a human right

in this country housing is not a human right

i don't give a shit about luxury rentals, people want a nice place, buy it, if you're in a market that isn't artificially inflated by policy measures that favor investors and create an ever increasing cycle of scarcity and price increases people that want more than what they can get in a rental should be able to afford it

 

[Captivating]

again because it seems to be something you don't understand

Residential Property should not be an investment asset

housing should not be for profit

that is my position

you can come up with whatever scenario you want as to why it should be and my response will be

no it shouldn't

housing should be a human right

in this country housing is not a human right

i don't give a s**t about luxury rentals, people want a nice place, buy it, if you're in a market that isn't artificially inflated by policy measures that favor investors and create an ever increasing cycle of scarcity and price increases people that want more than what they can get in a rental should be able to afford it

If people can’t afford and want to rent on a convenient location, they should pay for that.

Otherwise, rent in the outer suburbs

 

[Gralin]

If people can’t afford and want to rent on a convenient location, they should pay for that.

Otherwise, rent in the outer suburbs

That simple?
Poors to the outer suburbs?
What if they can't rent there either?
I live 40kms from the city and there are literally 4 places for rent for under $500 pw anywhere around here

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

again because it seems to be something you don't understand

Residential Property should not be an investment asset

housing should not be for profit

that is my position

you can come up with whatever scenario you want as to why it should be and my response will be

no it shouldn't

housing should be a human right

in this country housing is not a human right

i don't give a s**t about luxury rentals, people want a nice place, buy it, if you're in a market that isn't artificially inflated by policy measures that favor investors and create an ever increasing cycle of scarcity and price increases people that want more than what they can get in a rental should be able to afford it

Jesus Christ, you are on such a crusade that you can't even have a proper debate.

Yes housing is a basic need. NOBODY IS ARGUING WITH YOU ON THAT.

But your rather ignorant and very poorly thought out position that nobody should own an investment property is laughable. And the thing is I know that you are intelligent enough to know it. There are plenty of reasons why you have to have some sort of property investment marketplace. And guess what mate? Some of these reasons have a value to them greater than the cheap fibro homes that the government used to build en-masse (yeah buddy, I grew up in one so do not talk down to me).

"Want a nice place, buy one." That's your argument? I really shouldn't dignify such a dismissive and condescending statement with a response. But I will anyway. One example for you, during covid my wife and I needed some short term accommodation. We had issues with our apartment that needed urgent repair and the covid rules made it near impossible to get the work done. We were unable to live there whilst the work was being carried out (it was unsafe) and we needed accommodation for a few months. So what do you think we did? We went to an Airbnb. Why? Because that was the only option that worked for us. We couldn't leave the state to stay with family, hotels were too expensive, and we both needed somewhere where we could work from.

Under your plan we'd have had to contact the government and get them organise short term accommodation, probably wherever the government deemed fit for us to be without any consideration of our circumstances. Because you know, housing is a basic right, yeah? Under your plan we would have had to rely on the government to get us out of a jam. Under your plan we would have had no other option.

Another thing I will add is that for someone who has so little faith in government do you really want them managing every property that is not directly owned by the people who live in it? Wow.

 

[Kram]

Some of these reasons have a value to them greater than the cheap fibro homes that the government used to build en-masse (yeah buddy, I grew up in one so do not talk down to me).

Hey I still live in a fibro!

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Hey I still live in a fibro!

Man, I get where Gralin is coming from (to a point) but he's all or nothing and it's frigging frustrating. It's always black or white
with him but that is not how the world is.

If we don't have a private market for things, including housing (supplemented of course by more social housing) then we will become Red China in no time at all. They call me "Chairman" at work...but I have nothing on old mate.

 

[Gralin]

Jesus Christ, you are on such a crusade that you can't even have a proper debate.

But I said I wasn't interested in a debate, you didn't want to take no for an answer.

Yes housing is a basic need. NOBODY IS ARGUING WITH YOU ON THAT.

No they're arguing around that

But your rather ignorant and very poorly thought out position that nobody should own an investment property is laughable.

Cool this is really positive debating

And the thing is I know that you are intelligent enough to know it. There are plenty of reasons why you have to have some sort of property investment marketplace. And guess what mate? Some of these reasons have an economic value to them greater than the cheap fibro homes that the government used to build en-masse (yeah buddy, I grew up in one so do not talk down to me).

I'm not talking down to you.

Have you had much experience with the build to invest housing market?

It's also ****ed the "quality" of these houses is so far below the standards it would be funny if we weren't dealing with tens of thousands of them

"Want a nice place, buy one." That's your argument? I really shouldn't dignify such a dismissive and condescending statement with a response.

Again, I told you I wasn't interested in your what about this situation
I was asked my position I answered that wasn't an invitation for you tell me how stupid you think I am

But I will anyway. One example for you, during covid my wife and I needed some short term accommodation. We had issues with our apartment that needed urgent repair and the covid rules made it near impossible to get the work done. We were unable to live there whilst the work was being carried out (it was unsafe) and we needed accommodation for a few months. So what do you think we did? We went to an Airbnb. Why? Because that was the only option that worked for us. We couldn't leave the state to stay with family, hotels were too expensive, and we both needed somewhere where we could work from.

I see Airbnb as being the only usable option as the problem

Under your plan we'd have had to contact the government and get them organise short term accommodation, probably wherever the government deemed fit for us to be without any consideration of our circumstances. Because you know, housing is a basic right, yeah? Under your plan we would have had to rely on the government to get us out of a jam. Under your plan we would have had no other option.

You're catastrophising a situation that doesn't exist and according to you will never exist anyway so I don't really see the point

Another thing I will add is that for someone who has so little faith in government do you really want them managing every property that is not directly owned by the people who live in it? Wow.

My experience with the private rental sector doesn't really fill me with confidence either but again as you keep telling me this is never going to happen so let's move on

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

But I said I wasn't interested in a debate, you didn't want to take no for an answer.


No they're arguing around that


Cool this is really positive debating

I'm not talking down to you.

Have you had much experience with the build to invest housing market?

It's also ****ed the "quality" of these houses is so far below the standards it would be funny if we weren't dealing with tens of thousands of them


Again, I told you I wasn't interested in your what about this situation
I was asked my position I answered that wasn't an invitation for you tell me how stupid you think I am


I see Airbnb as being the only usable option as the problem

You're catastrophising a situation that doesn't exist and according to you will never exist anyway so I don't really see the point


My experience with the private rental sector doesn't really fill me with confidence either but again as you keep telling me this is never going to happen so let's move on

Good, I know where it’s at with you now. You, on a public forum are happy to stick your opinion out there and shut down anybody who challenges it.

Really mature. No problem. I’ll not engage with you again.

 

[Gralin]

Good, I know where it’s at with you now. You, on a public forum are happy to stick your opinion out there and shut down anybody who challenges it.

Really mature. No problem. I’ll not engage with you again.

I didn't realise I'm not interested in discussing something was stopping you from discussing it without me.

But I did give you the opportunity to make jokes about China so not sure why we can't be civil

 

[nut]

Excellent.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/fuelguzzling-yank-tanks-face-a-costly-future-in-australia-after-new-vehicle-emissions-changes-approved/news-story/74a2d0769d74aa542f9c200bf2a9d07c

If you drive one of these things you can suck my baws.

Are they Duttons cars?

 

[QuietB]

Excellent.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/fuelguzzling-yank-tanks-face-a-costly-future-in-australia-after-new-vehicle-emissions-changes-approved/news-story/74a2d0769d74aa542f9c200bf2a9d07c

If you drive one of these things you can suck my baws.

It is truely amazing that Australia's response to all the congestion problems facing our cities has been bigger cars.

Frankly - we are ****ing morons.

 

[QuietB]

If people can’t afford and want to rent on a convenient location, they should pay for that.

Otherwise, rent in the outer suburbs

But cities cannot ultimately work like that. Not every job in the city can earn $300/400/500k - but the city cannot survive without the people who do all the crappy work and don't earn anywhere near than much.

I have not studied or read anything about this, but I suspect a huge part of the nurse/paramedic/cleaner/whatever labour shortage is simply people cannot afford to live anywhere near the Royal Melbourne or Alfred so they do move to the suburbs or the regions as you say and do something else.

 

[Gralin]

But cities cannot ultimately work like that. Not every job in the city can earn $300/400/500k - but the city cannot survive without the people who do all the crappy work and don't earn anywhere near than much.

I have not studied or read anything about this, but I suspect a huge part of the nurse/paramedic/cleaner/whatever labour shortage is simply people cannot afford to live anywhere near the Royal Melbourne or Alfred so they do move to the suburbs or the regions as you say and do something else.

No a new issue either
Joe Hockey famously told nurses to get better jobs instead of complain

 

[Rob R]

Education and defense being almost equal is an indictment on this country.

Government expenditure on education is nearly triple defence spending (factoring in state govt expenses) and defence spending will be lower once Xi and Putin have departed (hopefully out windows)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

But cities cannot ultimately work like that. Not every job in the city can earn $300/400/500k - but the city cannot survive without the people who do all the crappy work and don't earn anywhere near than much.

I have not studied or read anything about this, but I suspect a huge part of the nurse/paramedic/cleaner/whatever labour shortage is simply people cannot afford to live anywhere near the Royal Melbourne or Alfred so they do move to the suburbs or the regions as you say and do something else.

Surprised this is an issue that doesn't get talked about more - it's expensive to live in the outer suburbs when public transport is not there and car ownership is baked in.

Not sure about Sydney but Melbourne is particularly backwards in how population is spread out when compared to a lot of metropoles in Europe. It's the main reason why I support the SRL even though I've got a few issues with the way it was conceived.

 

[Gough]

Surprised this is an issue that doesn't get talked about more - it's expensive to live in the outer suburbs when public transport is not there and car ownership is baked in.

Not sure about Sydney but Melbourne is particularly backwards in how population is spread out when compared to a lot of metropoles in Europe. It's the main reason why I support the SRL even though I've got a few issues with the way it was conceived.

The slower growth of Adelaide compared to most other places has been very advantageous in that respect. We haven't seen the rapid urban sprawl that other cities have had meaning our new suburbs are very well serviced by comparison.

 

[peetoo]

Man, I get where Gralin is coming from (to a point) but he's all or nothing and it's frigging frustrating. It's always black or white
with him but that is not how the world is.

If we don't have a private market for things, including housing (supplemented of course by more social housing) then we will become Red China in no time at all. They call me "Chairman" at work...but I have nothing on old mate.

Private rentals are not efficient by any means. The various tax breaks which we all pay for. Prop it up in many areas.

Your commentary seems to be based on private is always more efficient rhetoric. In a lot of this market, it isn’t

 

[Captivating]

But cities cannot ultimately work like that. Not every job in the city can earn $300/400/500k - but the city cannot survive without the people who do all the crappy work and don't earn anywhere near than much.

I have not studied or read anything about this, but I suspect a huge part of the nurse/paramedic/cleaner/whatever labour shortage is simply people cannot afford to live anywhere near the Royal Melbourne or Alfred so they do move to the suburbs or the regions as you say and do something else.

The city is dead. COVID, then WFH and now coupled with an idiot Lord Mayor and a Green's agenda to not have any motor vehicles in the city has killed it off.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

The city is dead. COVID, then WFH and now coupled with an idiot Lord Mayor and a Green's agenda to not have any motor vehicles in the city has killed it off.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Private rentals are not efficient by any means. The various tax breaks which we all pay for. Prop it up in many areas.

Your commentary seems to be based on private is always more efficient rhetoric. In a lot of this market, it isn’t

No man, that’s not my position at all. I simply question the position that the government own and operate the entire rental market.