Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[The Punter]

People are living in tents, and you think politicians should have a generous taxpayer funded allowance for their second house?

I think people required to travel for work should have the costs of that travel, including accomodation, covered. Like any other job.

What examples of bigotry are you comparing dislike of politicians to?

All of them. In my experience I've found that bigotry is mostly fuelled by ignorance. Most people have never met or don't know an elected official, so they are able to lean into that dislike of elected officials because they don't know what they are really like.

I have a reflexive response to corruption. It’s simple. If you own a house in Canberra you don’t need living expenses. Putting it in someone else’s name is a rort.

As for bigotry, if anyone could show me a politician who is working in the public interest without feathering their own nest then great. Unfortunately it seems from local councils upwards the only people who are attracted to & sufficiently thick skinned for the system we’ve created are either utterly self entitled & venal like Joyce, Taylor etc or sociopathic like Scomo.

Unfortunately it’s the old axiom- anyone who wants to be in charge should, by definition be ineligible.

I read the community newspapers & just about every local council in Perth now is populated by property developers & their enablers.

With housing being such a huge issue currently the Canberra investment property rort is symptomatic of everything wrong with the system.

Nearly all of them, but again, it's a working expense. Sort of sounds like you'd prefer elected officials to work for nothing, which from your point of view would probably create perverse outcomes.

We need to build more houses - simple.

 

[Rotayjay]

I'm struggling to see what Albo has done wrong here...in a private citizen sense. He's shown compassion to his tenants by keeping rents at much lower than market value. He now wants to sell the property and has given the tenants 90 days' notice. I wonder whether the tenants would have run to the media with it had they been paying market value over the past 4 years. I suspect they feel jilted in part because the relatively sweet deal they are on is about to expire.

I get that 90 days' notice is not long in this heated rental market, but I am struggling to understand (if I remove the notion that he is the PM) what Albo has done wrong.

If the landlord were Abbott, Turnbull or Morrison there would not be a ****ing peep from the media.

 

[Gralin]

I think people required to travel for work should have the costs of that travel, including accomodation, covered. Like any other job.

All of them. In my experience I've found that bigotry is mostly fuelled by ignorance. Most people have never met or don't know an elected official, so they are able to lean into that dislike of elected officials because they don't know what they are really like.

Nearly all of them, but again, it's a working expense. Sort of sounds like you'd prefer elected officials to work for nothing, which from your point of view would probably create perverse outcomes.

We need to build more houses - simple.

So to be clear.
You're comparing dislike of politicians to racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny etc?

One is not like the other

It's also a trope that bigotry would be solved if bigots just got to know the people they hate

Also completely ignores the power dynamics at play with politicians and government

 

[The Punter]

So to be clear.
You're comparing dislike of politicians to racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny etc?

One is not like the other

It's also a trope that bigotry would be solved if bigots just got to know the people they hate

Also completely ignores the power dynamics at play with politicians and government

I think a lot of bigots would not be so if they had more contact with different groups at an earlier age.

Acting like elected officials are a different species to the rest of the population isn't nearly as dangerous or consequential as the types of bigotry you described. But most people I encounter who have strong negative opinions about elected officials don't know any.

 

[Saint]

I think a lot of bigots would not be so if they had more contact with different groups at an earlier age.

Acting like elected officials are a different species to the rest of the population isn't nearly as dangerous or consequential as the types of bigotry you described. But most people I encounter who have strong negative opinions about elected officials don't know any.

Couldn't agree with this last line more, but extend it to Govt employees. When people say that Council officers or Govt employees are out to get them or something like that, it blows my mind.

On the one hand, they're considered incompetent. On the other, they're also diabolically clever working with Davos to affect some schleb's garden shed extension. Reality is that they're just people over-worked, under-trained, going through stuff, just trying their best etc.

OTOH. There aren't stringent-enough controls of Parliamentarians' conflicts of interest which gives far too much room to question their motives. Negative gearing and home ownership is a prime example. Are these pollies trying everything they know how to alleviate problems, or are they (even sub-consciously) pre-disposed to look after the property owners who are themselves and all the other private school kids they went to school with and members of their parliamentary party?

 

[The Punter]

Couldn't agree with this last line more, but extend it to Govt employees. When people say that Council officers or Govt employees are out to get them or something like that, it blows my mind.

On the one hand, they're considered incompetent. On the other, they're also diabolically clever working with Davos to affect some schleb's garden shed extension. Reality is that they're just people over-worked, under-trained, going through stuff, just trying their best etc.

OTOH. There aren't stringent-enough controls of Parliamentarians' conflicts of interest which gives far too much room to question their motives. Negative gearing and home ownership is a prime example. Are these pollies trying everything they know how to alleviate problems, or are they (even sub-consciously) pre-disposed to look after the property owners who are themselves and all the other private school kids they went to school with and members of their parliamentary party?

If elected officials are not doing what they are supposed to do for the common good because of the advantages they themselves receive through the status quo, then we have a problem, but I don't think that is what is happening. I know many will disagree with me. I think most are just making the best of the current circumstances. There are many things that are contributing to our housing crisis than pollies tending to their Canberra real estate portfolios IMO.

I also agree with you on government employees.

 

[Gralin]

I think a lot of bigots would not be so if they had more contact with different groups at an earlier age.

I think you'll find the problem isn't exposure to groups at an earlier age it's a society that encourages that bigotry to flourish

I also don't think you should compare dislike of a job to racial or sexual bigotry because one od those things is a choice

Acting like elected officials are a different species to the rest of the population isn't nearly as dangerous or consequential as the types of bigotry you described. But most people I encounter who have strong negative opinions about elected officials don't know any.

The rich live in a different world to the rest of us and they like it that way. Politicians are part of that class and a major mechanism in keeping it thatbway.

If you don't have a problem with that it's generally either because you are in that class or you think you're going to be

 

[Gralin]

This budget also basically says the voice was all Albo was willing to do about Indigenous issues

 

[Saint]

This budget also basically says the voice was all Albo was willing to do about Indigenous issues

The vote for the Voice said that Australians don't consider indigenous issues a priority (or even issues at all).

I disagree, but feels like I'm in the minority.

 

[The Punter]

I think you'll find the problem isn't exposure to groups at an earlier age it's a society that encourages that bigotry to flourish

I also don't think you should compare dislike of a job to racial or sexual bigotry because one od those things is a choice


The rich live in a different world to the rest of us and they like it that way. Politicians are part of that class and a major mechanism in keeping it thatbway.

If you don't have a problem with that it's generally either because you are in that class or you think you're going to be

Firstly, you have little idea why I have problems with the things I have problems with. But this is your MO.

I don't subscribe to the notion that all the powerful are evil and the powerless are not.

Bigotry is also a choice BTW.

But generally in this are we are not about to agree. I've made my points and am satisfied to move on.

 

[Gralin]

The vote for the Voice said that Australians don't consider indigenous issues a priority (or even issues at all).

I disagree, but feels like I'm in the minority.

Government appears to have used it as approval to do less moving forward for sure and the media basically didn't cover it.

I mean they were too busy declaring women the winners for a budget that didn't do anything to materially address those problems either

But still

 

[Gralin]

Firstly, you have little idea why I have problems with the things I have problems with. But this is your MO.

I don't subscribe to the notion that all the powerful are evil and the powerless are not.

Bigotry is also a choice BTW.

But generally in this are we are not about to agree. I've made my points and am satisfied to move on.

Also happy to move on

 

[JackOutback]

I've known lots of politicians over the years, generally well meaning people who got into politics for the right reasons, but also happy to put their snouts in the trough because 'those are the rules'. Aren't capable of seeing their own hypocrisy and greed, and deserve to be criticised for that.

 

[barreness]

I don't buy that for a second... It's not like the money is going directly to tax payers anyway. It would be quite simple to do a high level calculation by region and means test the payment based on gross income. I don't need a $300 reduction in my power bill and I would much rather see that money put to better use.

It's political pragmatism dressed up as equality.

Take the opportunity to give $300 to a homeless charity then

 

[Crankyhawk]

Raising taxes and cutting spending, and explaining to the public there is no short term solution.

Giving people more money to spend will not, and has never worked.

Ie your answer is to deliver no cost of living relief and basically austerity type measures?
Because that worked well for the various European countries that tried it… (uk, Greece etc)

 

[Crankyhawk]

Well the prevailing policy of borrowing, spending, and handouts over the last 20 years has also done SFA.

Just a modicum of discipline during the GFC and Covid and we would be in a far better place.

Continuing to spend only kicks the can down the road.

If what Chalmers delivered is going to meet his objectives then he should be able to explain why.

We could actually do with some “economists” in these positions. Anyone, just an experiment, following the principles rationally and dryly.

Nah. No economists ever seem to be held accountable for their statements, many of which are contradictory and/ or follow a herd mentality then when wrong claim the situation changed. Pack of useless shits. Should go and get a real job.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Same what happens when you don’t pay the bank?

Government gets the house to use as social (rental) housing?

 

[Crankyhawk]

If the taxpayer's money card is played, surely quantum is the most important thing, and there are MUCH larger wastes of taxpayers money. Changing this loophole wouldn't save the taxpayer a cent - you'd have to reduce the allowance for being away from home to do that.

I have a reflexive response to pollie-hating. I find it is the same as a lot of bigotry around the place - fuelled by the lack of contact with those you hate.

I could understand the "make 'em stay in hotels" because that will stimulate the hotel industry economy. But you'd have to reduce the allowance or come up with another solution to actually save taxpayer's money.

Part of it isn’t just politicians there is an assumed per diem claimable rate for work related trips with no need for substantiation. And it (well for a cheapskate like me) is well in excess of what I spend

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yeah imagine it houses in an English winter we'd all die

Though the English houses in an Australian summer also kill via heat (I went to England one of their summers and mid 20s/ low 30s felt a shit tonne worse than here)

 

[The Punter]

Part of it isn’t just politicians there is an assumed per diem claimable rate for work related trips with no need for substantiation. And it (well for a cheapskate like me) is well in excess of what I spend

IIRC Canberra is one flat rate regardless of accommodation. Everywhere else there is a commercial rate and a non-commercial rate.

Most staffers who attend most sitting weeks have someone who they know with a spare room in Canberra so they pocket the allowance. Some MPs stay in houses owned by other MPs. As long as you have the allowance and it does not require substantiation, people will try and squeeze that penny as much as they can.

 

[Crankyhawk]

IIRC Canberra is one flat rate regardless of accommodation. Everywhere else there is a commercial rate and a non-commercial rate.

Most staffers who attend most sitting weeks have someone who they know with a spare room in Canberra so they pocket the allowance. Some MPs stay in houses owned by other MPs. As long as you have the allowance and it does not require substantiation, people will try and squeeze that penny as much as they can.

Sorry I think I was unclear, was referring to those not even in the political sphere (professional conferences, probably even fifo workers) get this absurdly generous per diem

 

[The Punter]

Sorry I think I was unclear, was referring to those not even in the political sphere (professional conferences, probably even fifo workers) get this absurdly generous per diem

Might still end up cheaper than administering substantiation.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Might still end up cheaper than administering substantiation.

I was thinking slash the rates. Those with excessive but legitimate claims provide substantiation which with credit card statements is simpler than hoarding masses of receipts.

 

[peetoo]

Ie your answer is to deliver no cost of living relief and basically austerity type measures?
Because that worked well for the various European countries that tried it… (uk, Greece etc)

Many in UK just saw the gfc meander on into the cost of living crisis. No economic sunshine in the middle

 

[Black Diamond]

Ie your answer is to deliver no cost of living relief and basically austerity type measures?
Because that worked well for the various European countries that tried it… (uk, Greece etc)

There is no such thing as cost of living relief. Every measure makes the issue worse long term.