Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[Saint]

She was probably silly enough to believe that the ALP would adopt the party platform instead of hanging party members who do support it out to dry.

Do they never allow conscience votes?

Nope. (except for abortion, because the ALP position upset the shoppies nutters)



Skip to 4:08.

Then watch Graham Richardson finish it off with the ALP preach "Solidarity is more important, so is kicking people out of the party for voting for their human rights".

His argument seems to ignore that maybe they didn't have to have cabinet solidarity on absolutely everything.

 

[Saint]

View attachment 2038353

This wreaks of somebody sticking up for something they think others should believe, but that they know has no basis in fact or reason.

How can they say they consistent support a two-state solution when they just voted against it?

 

[Gralin]

The ALP National President Wayne Swan has released a statement on the Senator Payman issue.

Discuss in the context of Australian Labor Party political history and the current socio-political environment in Australia (limit 500 words).

View attachment 2038353

Geez he said that with his whole chest didn't he

Labor stands against fascism and the far right and the actions of Senator Payman can only empower the far right and far left who have always opposed progressive foreign, economic and environmental policy

Truth in politics is truly dead

 

[Demonic Ascent]

What a load of absolute BS. The government is pandering to the Israel lobby and refusing to denounce what is happening in Gaza in any meaningful way.

Not to mention the terrorism being committed against Palestinians in the West Bank.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

they exist to capture the progressive vote to stifle change, not to enact it

Yes, they act as gatekeepers so that progressive policies are never implemented. Same old, same old seems like it's been that way since the mid-70s, definitely since the mid-90s.

 

[QuietB]

Union members have free votes over EBA's. They're not just all forced to vote however the Union says or quit.

Of course. And everyone in the Labor Party can vote however they like in caucus. But once a position has been agreed then that is it - it is time for solidarity.

This applies equally to a football team, to a corporate board, to a public institution, to the staff on a ship, to the armed forces, to everything.

Fatima Layman is 100% free to hold whatever view she wants to push that view as hard as she wants within and outside the Labor Party.

But at some point the Party has to form a position and move forward and in a party of collectivism that means moving forward with collective solidarity.

Also, Labor's position might be wrong - I would agree that they should be supporting a Palestinian State. But the problem is not party solidarity.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

they're accusing Payman of working with the greens over crossing the floor to acknowledge Palestine while Bill Shorten is posing for photos with Pauline Hanson to attack the greens for not helping them removing funding from the NDIS

anyone who thinks backing Labor is the moral thing to do at this point, that they aren't exactly the same political machine as the coalition, is rather gullible

The ALP may used to have been a progressive party for workers and the marginalised, but they're not anymore. That's why history lessons from Northalives are interesting but irrelevant, the ALP of the 40s and 50s is not the ALP of the 21st century. Just more neo-liberal grifters but with the pretense of a social conscience.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I don't agree that the role is useless.

What do you believe is the use of the role?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What Israel are doing in Gaza is abhorrent.
But it doesn't follow that a country that has never existed should be recognized as a country because someone else is being a complete and utter arseh*le ( and worse words ).

Question 1: What is the government of this hypothetical country?

 

[Gralin]

What Israel are doing in Gaza is abhorrent.
But it doesn't follow that a country that has never existed should be recognized as a country because someone else is being a complete and utter arseh*le ( and worse words ).

Question 1: What is the government of this hypothetical country?

Sorry a country that never existed?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

What Israel are doing in Gaza is abhorrent.
But it doesn't follow that a country that has never existed should be recognized as a country because someone else is being a complete and utter arseh*le ( and worse words ).

Question 1: What is the government of this hypothetical country?

"Self determination....entails the entitlement of peoples to have control over their destiny and to be treated respectfully. This includes peoples being free to pursue their economic, social and cultural development."

https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-self-determination

What you or anyone else considers to be the government is irrelevant, it is about the right of the Palestinian people to self determination.

 

[QuietB]

Sorry a country that never existed?

Terra Nullius is the colonialists best friend

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Terra Nullius is the colonialists best friend

Yeah yeah.

If Palestine was a legitimate country, who would you be dealing with if you needed to deal with this country?

Maybe it should be a country. But there is stuff they need to sort out first.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

"Self determination....entails the entitlement of peoples to have control over their destiny and to be treated respectfully. This includes peoples being free to pursue their economic, social and cultural development."

https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-self-determination

What you or anyone else considers to be the government is irrelevant, it is about the right of the Palestinian people to self determination

I don't deny that, but they haven't exercised their rights, unless you count Hamas.

 

[Gralin]

I don't deny that, but they haven't exercised their rights, unless you count Hamas.

Israel haven't let them

 

[Donakebab]

Yeah yeah.

If Palestine was a legitimate country, who would you be dealing with if you needed to deal with this country?

Maybe it should be a country. But there is stuff they need to sort out first.

Top of the list is to stop being murdered by an occupying force.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Have zero respect for Senators who only got the gig on back of party alignment, then pulling pin to go independent

Thorpe
Paymen

Disgraceful

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Israel haven't let them

Very likely. But it still doesn't make them a country.
Being repressed, or even exterminated, does not make you a country.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Top of the list is to stop being murdered by an occupying force.

As a "State" or "Country" they don't have the ability to do that.
We do ( maybe , we'd probably need help ), but it is separate to recognizing them as a country.

 

[Gralin]

Very likely. But it still doesn't make them a country.
Being repressed, or even exterminated, does not make you a country.

Apparently neither does being one if the British decide to pretend you weren't

 

[Gralin]

Have zero respect for Senators who only got the gig on back of party alignment, then pulling pin to go independent

Thorpe
Paymen

Disgraceful

Lol

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Apparently neither does being one if the British decide to pretend you weren't

OK , when do you suggest that Palestine was a country?

 

[Gavin Excell]

ASIC needs far stronger leadership

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Very likely. But it still doesn't make them a country.
Being repressed, or even exterminated, does not make you a country.

But land the British stole = country

 

[Gavin Excell]

Lol

Lol?
They were voted in by the public on back of their party
Incredibly selfish
.if they feel so strongly, resign from the parliament

Gravy train swill