Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[evolved2]

So you are a stickler for caucus rules, but not the Labor National Platform?

Which of those influenced your vote?

I'd like politicians and their parties to be accountable to their election platform, but life doesn't work that way.

ALP solidarity is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Penny Wong voted against gay marriage - voting against your own interests or values is sometimes necessary as part of the bigger picture. If Payman thought that would be a problem, she shouldn't have joined the ALP.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I'd like politicians and their parties to be accountable to their election platform, but life doesn't work that way.

ALP solidarity is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Penny Wong voted against gay marriage - voting against your own interests or values is sometimes necessary as part of the bigger picture. If Payman thought that would be a problem, she shouldn't have joined the ALP.

As long as it wasn't an election promise, I presume?

 

[Bloods86]

Those rules are publicised and should be known by an ALP senator. She wasn't victimised by being kicked out of the party given her actions.

I'm not a Labor member, I don't care about their rules, especially if they lead to bad outcomes.

 

[evolved2]

As long as it wasn't an election promise, I presume?

Political parties seem to do whatever they want with little regard to any level of accountability beyond what they think will give them a win at election time.

Several SRP posters follow the philosophy that politicians and parties shouldn't need to keep their word so long as their progressive wants are fulfilled, so I can hardly be sympathetic to those what wish to pick and choose which 'rules' they accept and disregard now.

Election platforms are voted in by the public and should be followed unless otherwise strongly justified. Our politicians are servants to the voting public as a whole, not you or me.

 

[spinynorman]

I'd like politicians and their parties to be accountable to their election platform, but life doesn't work that way.

ALP solidarity is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Penny Wong voted against gay marriage - voting against your own interests or values is sometimes necessary as part of the bigger picture. If Payman thought that would be a problem, she shouldn't have joined the ALP.

What was good about Penny Wong voting against gay marriage? It was a terrible thing Labor made her do, and then Labor didn't even pass marriage equality.

 

[Gralin]

This is from The Saturday Paper - https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2024/07/06/inside-the-fatima-payman-defection

The Greens can get ****ed as can Drueruy. This whole stunt was pure vote harvesting that will only end in more islamophobia.

.....

A change in behaviour can be traced back to late March and April, according to several Labor figures, not long after Payman was married in Perth to WA Labor ministerial staffer Jacob Stokes. The February wedding was attended by WA Premier Roger Cook, Assistant Minister Patrick Gorman, Senator Jana Stewart and Senator Karen Grogan.
Labor sources says there was a change to Payman’s general activity on her social media feeds on March 29. On this day, she posted a statement clarifying “misconceptions circulating in the community” after she voted with Labor against a Greens motion on Australian exports to Israel. She insisted no Australian weapons had been supplied to Israel for at least the past five years.

“In light of the above, the Greens motion was nothing more than political manipulation, making claims that are not true,” she stated. “A vote on it was inconsequential.”

The week before the federal budget, activities ramped up. One Labor MP detailed disappointment with the Prime Minister’s Office, which had not seen the Payman controversy coming and allowed it to develop rather than addressing it.

On May 9, Payman broke from Labor lines to post: “We must hold the Netanyahu government accountable. There must be an end to the atrocities before this catastrophe reaches a point of no return.”

A day after the federal budget, on May 15, she again broke with Labor rhetoric, making a post that accused the Jewish state of genocide. She asked the prime minister directly for sanctions over Israeli actions in Gaza and ended with the call, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.”

.....

Speaking to the ABC this week, Albanese said: “Someone doesn’t just pop up on Insiders because they were walking past the studio on Sunday. Now, I asked for an explanation of why, what the motivation of that was. I haven’t received one.”

.....

“My conscience has been uneasy for far too long and I must call this out for what it is,” she said.

Amid opposition calls for expulsion and Albanese’s attempts to show “restraint” in response, the prime minister said her words were “not what’s appropriate”.

On May 22, Payman was photographed at a university sit-in for Palestine in Melbourne, her fist raised in the air.

On May 30, she resigned from two parliamentary foreign affairs committees.

On June 17, she wrote an opinion piece for international broadcaster Al Jazeera urging Australia to “facilitate” peace and recognise Palestine, saying it was in a “strong position” to do so.

Eight days later, on June 25, she voted with the Greens on their motion to recognise Palestinian statehood.

On Sunday, June 30, she appeared on Insiders and said she would cross the floor again on the issue.

Following the broadcast, she was called to the Lodge for a conversation that Albanese described as “stern but fair”. She was suspended from caucus the same day.

.....

Speaking to the ABC this week, Albanese said: “Someone doesn’t just pop up on Insiders because they were walking past the studio on Sunday. Now, I asked for an explanation of why, what the motivation of that was. I haven’t received one.”

Payman later said Albanese gave her an ultimatum at the Lodge, to “either toe the party line and come back inside the tent or I give the position back to the Labor Party”.

The prime minister denies this ultimatum was given and Payman concedes she does not have a transcript of the conversation.

Labor MPs are filled with rage over what they say are Greens tactics to provoke division within the party. They are dumbfounded by Payman’s involvement with Druery, a political deal maker and consultant.

The Saturday Paper spoke to Druery, but he declined to comment. He noted, however, that there were “one million Muslim voters in Australia” and confirmed he was informally advising both Payman and a group called The Muslim Vote.

The Australian Motoring Enthusiast Party got a Senate spot for Victoria in 2013, for Ricky Muir, with a record low 0.51 per cent of the vote. Electoral reforms were passed in 2016 in an effort to stop this activity.

Other Labor figures say Payman is naive in her understanding of Labor rules and conventions available to raise issues. Solidarity is everything, they said. You don’t cross the floor, they say, but there are paths Payman could have taken to speak out with the party’s approval.

“The Greens motion achieved nothing for the rupture it has caused,” one pro-Palestinian Labor MP told The Saturday Paper.

“Everyone thinks the Greens are morally pure. The Greens just want to stuff Labor. They want to hurt Labor.”

yes its definitely the greens promoting islamaphobia

its totally not labor and the media

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Channel 7 ran an attack advert last night about Albo and free to air sport...

Young kids sooking about not being able to watch sport on TV.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The official government statement regarding Palestine, is not "anti-Palestine" and claims to want to recognize a Palestinian state in future.

I don't see that as an anti-Palestinian stance, given that Palestine is currently in no condition to form a government.
I see nothing there that should have compromised Payman's principles.
If anything, she was in a position to try to expediate and speed up the government's goals and aims. Which are for a two state solution.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The official government statement regarding Palestine, is not "anti-Palestine" and claims to want to recognize a Palestinian state in future.

I don't see that as an anti-Palestinian stance, given that Palestine is currently in no condition to form a government.
I see nothing there that should have compromised Payman's principles.
If anything, she was in a position to try to expediate and speed up the government's goals and aims. Which are for a two state solution.

How can you have a two state solution, if you only recognise one state - a state that is clearly not engaged in a peace process?

 

[Kram]

Fatima Payman goes from rising star to Labor rat

The senator, who had a promising future as a Labor politician, says her conscience left her no choice but to quit. Party insiders, however, are fuming.

www.afr.com

 

[SaintsSeptember]

How can you have a two state solution, if you only recognise one state - a state that is clearly not engaged in a peace process?

Like this..
If you wanted to recognize a current Palestinian state, who would you be negotiating with? Believe it or not "who" is important.

https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/occupied-palestinian-territories

Australia does not recognise a Palestinian state. We are committed to a two-state solution in which Israel and a future Palestinian state coexist, in peace and security, within internationally recognised borders.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Like this..
If you wanted to recognize a current Palestinian state, who would you be negotiating with? Believe it or not "who" is important.

https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/occupied-palestinian-territories

Australia does not recognise a Palestinian state. We are committed to a two-state solution in which Israel and a future Palestinian state coexist, in peace and security, within internationally recognised borders.

So you think 146 countries are all wrong?



Yes, it says 143, but there is +3 since then....

 

[tandino]

Like this..
If you wanted to recognize a current Palestinian state, who would you be negotiating with? Believe it or not "who" is important.

https://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/occupied-palestinian-territories

Australia does not recognise a Palestinian state. We are committed to a two-state solution in which Israel and a future Palestinian state coexist, in peace and security, within internationally recognised borders.

Australia still recognises Afghanistan? We seem to be able to navigate complicated diplomatic issues around the world with varying degrees of success.

I don't think it's beyond the imagination of DFAT to come up with a solution to this issue. That they don't is a choice. It might be justified, but it's still a choice.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Why though?

I have a lot of respect for your work and am not belittling it - we have one GG and their job is important too. I have no problem with them being paid well.

The PM is criminally underpaid considering what some CEO's earn. We should be looking to attract better talent into politics.

I’m unclear what talent is needed to be a GG. As opposed to PM (I would expect PM to be higher paid than the GG)

 

[Bloods86]

Political parties seem to do whatever they want with little regard to any level of accountability beyond what they think will give them a win at election time.

Several SRP posters follow the philosophy that politicians and parties shouldn't need to keep their word so long as their progressive wants are fulfilled, so I can hardly be sympathetic to those what wish to pick and choose which 'rules' they accept and disregard now.

Election platforms are voted in by the public and should be followed unless otherwise strongly justified. Our politicians are servants to the voting public as a whole, not you or me.

Yeah, it's weird how people who want certain things to happen/not happen, express support or criticism when those things happen/don't happen the way they would prefer.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Australia still recognises Afghanistan? We seem to be able to navigate complicated diplomatic issues around the world with varying degrees of success.

I don't think it's beyond the imagination of DFAT to come up with a solution to this issue. That they don't is a choice. It might be justified, but it's still a choice.

The Taliban declared an ‘interim government’ in Afghanistan, after taking power on 15 August 2021 following the collapse of the Afghan National Security Forces and the fall of the government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.

Afghanistan continues to face substantial humanitarian and economic challenges, compounded by natural disasters, such as the June 2022 and October 2023 earthquakes, and April 2024 floods. Australia is committed to supporting the Afghan people in these difficult times, including through our humanitarian program and advocacy on important issues such as human rights.

Australian officials engage with the Taliban regime in multilateral and group meetings to reinforce our expectations. Our engagement does not confer legitimacy on the Taliban. Australia, with the international community, will hold the Taliban to account for its actions, commitments, and applicable international obligations. This includes the safe passage of those seeking to depart Afghanistan, action to counter terrorism, the delivery of humanitarian assistance in accordance with international principles, and the upholding of human rights, including the rights of women and girls to education, civic and economic life.

----------------------------

Now who "should" we deal with as representing Palestine?

 

[Demons09]

The Taliban declared an ‘interim government’ in Afghanistan, after taking power on 15 August 2021 following the collapse of the Afghan National Security Forces and the fall of the government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.

Afghanistan continues to face substantial humanitarian and economic challenges, compounded by natural disasters, such as the June 2022 and October 2023 earthquakes, and April 2024 floods. Australia is committed to supporting the Afghan people in these difficult times, including through our humanitarian program and advocacy on important issues such as human rights.

Australian officials engage with the Taliban regime in multilateral and group meetings to reinforce our expectations. Our engagement does not confer legitimacy on the Taliban. Australia, with the international community, will hold the Taliban to account for its actions, commitments, and applicable international obligations. This includes the safe passage of those seeking to depart Afghanistan, action to counter terrorism, the delivery of humanitarian assistance in accordance with international principles, and the upholding of human rights, including the rights of women and girls to education, civic and economic life.

----------------------------

Now who "should" we deal with as representing Palestine?

Cmon mate wtf aren’t we dealing with Hamas lol.

 

[evolved2]

What was good about Penny Wong voting against gay marriage? It was a terrible thing Labor made her do, and then Labor didn't even pass marriage equality.

When someone signs up to be an ALP politician, they understand that a condition of the role is to vote in unison with party lines.

If someone can't do that, they should go independent or join another party.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

When someone signs up to be an ALP politician, they understand that a condition of the role is to vote in unison with party lines.

If someone can't do that, they should go independent or join another party.

Yeah, independent. That's exactly what she just did.

 

[evolved2]

Yeah, it's weird how people who want certain things to happen/not happen, express support or criticism when those things happen/don't happen the way they would prefer.

It's weird how people want politicians to follow the rules when it suits their brand of politics and disobey rules when it suits their brand of politics. It's almost like people have no objective standards!

 

[evolved2]

Yeah, independent. That's exactly what she just did.

Yeah, by choosing not to follow ALP protocols after getting where she is through the ALP.

She's no hero.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Yeah, by choosing not to follow ALP protocols after getting where she is through the ALP.

She's no hero.

Anti-hero. Like Batman.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Anti-hero. Like Batman.

More like Green Lantern.

 

[sdfc]

The ALP have made a hash of this. Fancy losing a senator over a symbolic gesture.

 

[QuietB]

yes its definitely the greens promoting islamaphobia

its totally not labor and the media

The greens are harvesting votes in a completely opportunistic way - quite like Dutton might - and it is providing the perfect environment for Dutton and Co to spew their racist views.

What exactly is the point of a Senate vote that means nothing and what exactly is the point of threatening to do it again when it fails dismally the first time?