Australia v India, 1st Test at Adelaide Oval Dec 6-10.

[Glacier]

FFS that is exactly my point. The whole cleaning up our image PR stunt has been a knee jerk reaction. Our poor form is not because of a poor culture.

But you argue that such a poor culture is ok if the side wins?

 

[HLM*]

But you argue that such a poor culture is ok if the side wins?

Poor culture according to who? Was there a dickhead or two amongst the group that ruined it for the side? Maybe. But I refuse to believe there ever was a poor culture within the Australian cricket team. It’s a shame such PC bullshit has crept in to the Australian cricket team.

 

[Glacier]

Poor culture according to who? Was there a dickhead or two amongst the group that ruined it for the side? Maybe. But I refuse to believe there ever was a poor culture within the Australian cricket team. It’s a shame such PC bullshit has crept in to the Australian cricket team.

So the cheating fiasco in South Africa was just PC bullshit?
Wow

 

[HLM*]

So the cheating fiasco in South Africa was just PC bullshit?
Wow

The overall reaction from people who don’t even watch cricket which consequently forced Cricket Australia’s hand into handing out their own independent one year bans? Yes, that was as PC bullshit as PC bullshit gets.

The offence itself was poor judgement by all involved (have my doubts into the amount of involvement smith had). But by no means do I think that our culture as a whole was absolutely ****ed because of this incident.

 

[Glacier]

The overall reaction from people who don’t even watch cricket which consequently forced Cricket Australia’s hand into handing out their own independent one year bans? Yes, that was as PC bullshit as PC bullshit gets.

The offence itself was poor judgement by all involved (have my doubts into the amount of involvement smith had). But by no means do I think that our culture as a whole was absolutely ****** because of this incident.

The offence wasn’t poor judgement mate
It was cheating and then attempting to cover up that cheating
But the poor culture of the side was in place well before that event

 

[Topkent]

Maybe if you really wanted you could find a correlation.

Taylor - 49 since, 46 overall
Williamson - 60, 51 overall
Southee - 28.9, 30.7 overall
Boult - 28, 28 overall
Watling - 40, 38 overall
McCullum - 46, 38 overall

I believe these are the 6 best players NZ have had in the last 4-5 years. Since they were bowled out for 45 at Newlands and McCullum spat the dummy and called for them to pull their heads in, 5 of those 6 have lifted their output and it has coincided with their lift in results.

There are two things the Australian team need to do to get back in the good books.
One is to improve, the other is to be at least a little bit more supportable to get fans onboard. Do the first, and the second will naturally improve a little bit. However the first will also undoubtedly take time. The second, they can do immediately. It’s already working. People were proud of some of the fight they put up in the first test, and in the first test against Pakistan. People are wanking on about the team not being tough enough - I think the Adelaide performance was very tough. The bowlers busted themselves and a number of batsmen tried to grind in for the long haul. Their skills still let them down but the desire was pretty clear. And they did it without ‘head butting the line’ or whatever useless euphemism people want to use to describe basic abuse and boorishness

Hahahahahahahah

So 2 batsmen have improved their averages in test cricket, 2 have made almost negligent improvements which is generally what people do as they improve and then when you were struggling to justify it you added 2 bowlers to try and beef up your numbers.

Steve Smith's average went up a shitload while we were being assholes so by your definition of correlation that's the reason.

The batsmen you used later as an example Virat Kohli is a massive dick hole on the field over celebrating and chirping. But let me guess he would be even better if he was smiling and kissed all the Australians?

Moronic argument

 

[Topkent]

I just stated I want to see aggressive cricket. I have always loved it. But with the ball, not from the mouth of some 5 foot 5 bogan standing at cover.

Says he doesn't like sledging, then sledges someone in his post

****ing hypocrite.

 

[Topkent]

Faf du Plessis has been caught ball tampering twice. FACT

The over reaction from the Australian public and media was disgusting.

2016
South Africa skipper Faf du Plessis has been found guilty of ball tampering by the International Cricket Council for using mints to alter the condition of the ball, but has been cleared to play in the Adelaide day-night Test.

Du Plessis, who has long been South Africa's player in charge of shining the ball, was also fined by the ICC for rubbing the ball on a trouser zipper during a 2013 Test against Pakistan. In mid-2014 Vernon Philander was also fined by the ICC for scratching the surface of the ball during a Test against Sri Lanka in Galle.


Du Plessis total punishment combined = Less than 20 grand and no matches missed.

David Warner total punishments for organising ball tampering but not actually being involved- 12 month suspension which cost him millions of dollars and missing 8 test matches and multiple short form games.


Seems fair.

 

[Topkent]

. Marcus Trescothick (The Ashes 2005)

The famous 2005 Ashes was when England finally managed to triumph over Australia after being on the wrong side of the scorecard for over 19 years. The win was largely due to the devastating reverse swing that Andrew Flintoff, Simon Jones and Steve Harmisson managed to generate. Marcus Trescothick, in his autobiography that came out three years later, revealed that it was his task to keep the shine on the ball for as long as possible “with a bit of spit and a lot of polish.

“It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva which, when applied to the ball for cleaning purposes, enabled it to keep its shine for longer and therefore its swing,” he said. Although his revelation amounted to ball-tampering, Australia let it pass and it was forgotten.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hahahahahahahah

So 2 batsmen have improved their averages in test cricket, 2 have made almost negligent improvements which is generally what people do as they improve and then when you were struggling to justify it you added 2 bowlers to try and beef up your numbers.

Steve Smith's average went up a shitload while we were being assholes so by your definition of correlation that's the reason.

The batsmen you used later as an example Virat Kohli is a massive dick hole on the field over celebrating and chirping. But let me guess he would be even better if he was smiling and kissed all the Australians?

Moronic argument

Idiot.
There’s no other word for it.

Hunglikemajak speculated that another poster, and myself for that matter, were trying to say they got better because they stopped being f***wits. I never said that. I said that if you wanted to find a correlation, maybe you could. At no point did I say ‘they got better because they stopped sledging.’ I simply said that if you tried hard enough you could perhaps mount a statistical argument.

Fact: nz made a conscious effort to stop carrying on.
Fact: they have achieved results since, across both main formats, that are better than they’ve achieved in the past
Fact: it may have nothing to do with not carrying on
Fact: not being f***wits clearly hasn’t hurt, otherwise they wouldn’t have improved would they?

 

[PhatBoy]

Faf du Plessis has been caught ball tampering twice. FACT

The over reaction from the Australian public and media was disgusting.

2016
South Africa skipper Faf du Plessis has been found guilty of ball tampering by the International Cricket Council for using mints to alter the condition of the ball, but has been cleared to play in the Adelaide day-night Test.

Du Plessis, who has long been South Africa's player in charge of shining the ball, was also fined by the ICC for rubbing the ball on a trouser zipper during a 2013 Test against Pakistan. In mid-2014 Vernon Philander was also fined by the ICC for scratching the surface of the ball during a Test against Sri Lanka in Galle.


Du Plessis total punishment combined = Less than 20 grand and no matches missed.

David Warner total punishments for organising ball tampering but not actually being involved- 12 month suspension which cost him millions of dollars and missing 8 test matches and multiple short form games.


Seems fair.

So if I run a business, that sells, say, raincoats.

Do I have to punish my employees for breaches in exactly the same way as the company over the other side of town that also sells raincoats?

F*** me how long will it take for people to get this.

 

[SherbertLemon]

How long will the mods let PhatBoy play the man? Seriously mate, stop it with the personal attacks.

 

[Demosthenes]

If you read the quoted post that I replied to initially, it is exactly what he suggested - “Total garbage. New Zealand made an effort to change their team culture, and now they're above us in the Test rankings“.

"And" is not "therefore". Noting a correlation does not imply causation.

 

[Woody15]

Says he doesn't like sledging, then sledges someone in his post

******* hypocrite.

Last time I checked, David Warner is 5 foot 5 or 170cm and is a bogan. Neither of which I find intimidating.

Hardly an abusive and vicious sledge there by me.

 

[Woody15]

. Marcus Trescothick (The Ashes 2005)

The famous 2005 Ashes was when England finally managed to triumph over Australia after being on the wrong side of the scorecard for over 19 years. The win was largely due to the devastating reverse swing that Andrew Flintoff, Simon Jones and Steve Harmisson managed to generate. Marcus Trescothick, in his autobiography that came out three years later, revealed that it was his task to keep the shine on the ball for as long as possible “with a bit of spit and a lot of polish.

“It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva which, when applied to the ball for cleaning purposes, enabled it to keep its shine for longer and therefore its swing,” he said. Although his revelation amounted to ball-tampering, Australia let it pass and it was forgotten.

Mints are legal. So is sunscreen. Both of which are used to maintain the shine on the ball. This is a much longer process to get the ball to reverse swing. The ICC cannot stop people from chewing gum, mints or applying sunscreen. If thats as bad as ball tampering gets, so be it. That cannot be stopped.

But the ICC can stop bottle caps or sandpaper or sand being taken out on the field that will rough the ball up much, much quicker and result in reverse swing much sooner.

Thats a massive difference between the 2 techniques and 1 of those techniques is 100000x more deadly for a bowler.

One technique also involved a meeting, the job being allocated to the young guy in the team by a coward because the heat was on him already, the lies and attempted cover up...

Are the bans too long? Certainly an argument for it. But reading through this thread, people seem more willing to blame CA rather than the dickheads who conducted the ball tampering which so happens to coincide with some poor results lately.

 

[Topkent]

Last time I checked, David Warner is 5 foot 5 or 170cm and is a bogan. Neither of which I find intimidating.

Hardly an abusive and vicious sledge there by me.

You used it in a derogatory manner and you don't get to choose the line. Either you are for sledging or against it but you can't make up your own rules that allow you to sledge but makes everyone else aggressive dicks.

If you don't like don't say a word about any one else

 

[Topkent]

Mints are legal. So is sunscreen. Both of which are used to maintain the shine on the ball. This is a much longer process to get the ball to reverse swing. The ICC cannot stop people from chewing gum, mints or applying sunscreen. If thats as bad as ball tampering gets, so be it. That cannot be stopped.

But the ICC can stop bottle caps or sandpaper or sand being taken out on the field that will rough the ball up much, much quicker and result in reverse swing much sooner.

Thats a massive difference between the 2 techniques and 1 of those techniques is 100000x more deadly for a bowler.

One technique also involved a meeting, the job being allocated to the young guy in the team by a coward because the heat was on him already, the lies and attempted cover up...

Are the bans too long? Certainly an argument for it. But reading through this thread, people seem more willing to blame CA rather than the dickheads who conducted the ball tampering which so happens to coincide with some poor results lately.

Using said mints to rub the ball is not legal, trescothick also spoke about how it was planned.

Now I'm not advocating we should have won the series but England cheated. All countries tamper with the ball we just Did it in such an obvious manner.

The ICC werent even that concerned with it

 

[Woody15]

You used it in a derogatory manner and you don't get to choose the line. Either you are for sledging or against it but you can't make up your own rules that allow you to sledge but makes everyone else aggressive dicks.

If you don't like don't say a word about any one else

I never said I dont like sledging. It has a place. But there is certainly a limit. Its common knowledge the Australian teams have taken it well beyond that. You dont have to go too deep into a google search to discover this. There is a long list of past captains, opposition players, broadcasters..

I make no apologies for anything I say regarding David Warner.

 

[Topkent]

Idiot.
There’s no other word for it.

Hunglikemajak speculated that another poster, and myself for that matter, were trying to say they got better because they stopped being f***wits. I never said that. I said that if you wanted to find a correlation, maybe you could. At no point did I say ‘they got better because they stopped sledging.’ I simply said that if you tried hard enough you could perhaps mount a statistical argument.

Fact: nz made a conscious effort to stop carrying on.
Fact: they have achieved results since, across both main formats, that are better than they’ve achieved in the past
Fact: it may have nothing to do with not carrying on
Fact: not being f***wits clearly hasn’t hurt, otherwise they wouldn’t have improved would they?

What a wank, if you look hard enough statistics prove everything. You could say on days Handscombs shits in the morning he has averaged more runs. Doesn't make it a valid argument to sprout all the over internet like the crap you are posting.

 

[HLM*]

Mints are legal. So is sunscreen. Both of which are used to maintain the shine on the ball. This is a much longer process to get the ball to reverse swing. The ICC cannot stop people from chewing gum, mints or applying sunscreen. If thats as bad as ball tampering gets, so be it. That cannot be stopped

Dinesh Chandimal literally got banned a few months ago for using sweets to shine the ball.

 

[Woody15]

Using said mints to rub the ball is not legal, trescothick also spoke about how it was planned.

Now I'm not advocating we should have won the series but England cheated. All countries tamper with the ball we just Did it in such an obvious manner.

The ICC werent even that concerned with it

Direct application of a mint on a ball such as what Sourav Ganguly did I believe is illegal.

Having a mint in your mouth and mixing it with saliva and shining the ball is not legal.

Do you honestly think when Kohli or Faf touched a mint in their mouth then touched the ball the ball is going to start moving all over the place? come on..

You should try find a podcast with Wayne Clark and Kim Hughes talk about the ball tampering. Or read what Mickey Arthur had to say about ball tampering. Big difference between mints and roughing up a ball.

 

[Topkent]

I never said I dont like sledging. It has a place. But there is certainly a limit. Its common knowledge the Australian teams have taken it well beyond that. You dont have to go too deep into a google search to discover this. There is a long list of past captains, opposition players, broadcasters..

I make no apologies for anything I say regarding David Warner.

Just because you don't like a bloke you have never met or will ever meet and therefore are making judgements with 0 evidence to back them up it's a rather wasted argument

 

[Topkent]

Direct application of a mint on a ball such as what Sourav Ganguly did I believe is illegal.

Having a mint in your mouth and mixing it with saliva and shining the ball is not legal.

Do you honestly think when Kohli or Faf touched a mint in their mouth then touched the ball the ball is going to start moving all over the place? come on..

You should try find a podcast with Wayne Clark and Kim Hughes talk about the ball tampering. Or read what Mickey Arthur had to say about ball tampering. Big difference between mints and roughing up a ball.

Of course there's a difference, but did you see the swing the English got in 2005? Its well known applying the mint saliva to the ball over and over does help with swing or else people wouldn't do it.

To then say well it's cheating but it's not as bad cheating... just lol.

Either it's illegal or it's not. Simple as that

 

[Woody15]

Dinesh Chandimal literally got banned a few months ago for using sweets to shine the ball.

They were accused of altering the ball and he then refused to take the field which increased his suspension. It wasnt a suspension solely for shining the ball.

 

[PhatBoy]

What a wank, if you look hard enough statistics prove everything. You could say on days Handscombs shits in the morning he has averaged more runs. Doesn't make it a valid argument to sprout all the over internet like the crap you are posting.

I didn’t even try to prove anything you clown. Re-read all the posts.

Though I’d imagine 5 years of statistical data across the test careers of 6 players is a reasonable place to start.

But Hell, why bother with stats at all if they are so meaningless anyway.

Jomel Warrican is a better offie than Nathan Lyon.
Graeme Hick was an awesome test player.
Steve Smith was a way better batsman before he gave away legspin