Bluemour Discussion Thread X

[Jabba73]

What's going on here and does it have anything to do with the multiple quotes from metalcrusher on the bluemour thread? Is there two Darth Vader or something?

I can't sleep like this!!!!!!

Sleep is overrated

 

[Jabba73]

and stay under the salary cap............

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I think this could work for all teams. Carlton, Adelaide, Gold Coast, GWS involved.

Picks these teams have after Lynch compo and mid draft PPs for Carlton and Gold Coast (based on current ladder positions for finals sides)

Blues 1, 12, 27, 28

Suns 2, 3, 13, 20, 29, 32, 41

Giants 15, 26, 47, 51

Crows 8, 17, 22, 40

Trade 1 - Blues & Crows

#1, #27 for #8, #17 and McGovern (Values McGovern at #15)

Blues now have 8, 12, 17, 28 - We get McGovern, downgrade 1 to 8, upgrade 27 to 17

Crows now have 1, 22, 27, 40 - Lose McGovern, upgrade 8 to 1, downgrade 17 to 27

Trade 2 - Blues & Suns

#8, #12, #17 for #2, #13 (115 points advantage to Gold Coast)

Blues now have 2, 13, 28

Suns now have 3, 8, 12, 17, 20, 29, 32, 41 - Downgrade 2 to 8, Upgrade 13 to 12, gain 17 (Might help them from reaching for the King brothers)

Trade 3 - Blues & Giants

Trade 13 for Setterfield, #47, #51 (Values Setterfield at #30 but I don't think the Giants will value those later picks as much as us as we don't have any)

Blues now have 2, 28, 47, 51, 68 and 76. Gain Setterfield & 47 and 51, lose 13

Giants will have 13, 15, 26, 69. Gain 13, lose Setterfield, 47 and 51


Overall Carlton downgrade 1 to 2, 12 to 13 and lose 27 while gaining McGovern, Setterfield, 47 and 51

Take Walsh with #2, also use #28, #47, #51, #68, #76 in the draft


Obviously we would have to work on trades 1 and 2 concurrently because trading 1 is not a goer unless 2 is signed off at the same time.

That wouldn't be a bad outcome as a whole but I don't see us willing to trade #1 for a 7 pick downgrade just to add McGovern and a 10 pick upgrade to our 2nd rounder. Understand you look at the outcome as a whole rather than parts but as you said you'd want to know that trade 2 is going to happen before doing it.

If the Suns were after that sort of outcome, what stops them from dealing with the Crows directly? They could trade pick #2 for their picks #8 + #17 and the Suns have an almost identical outcome, only they don't have to wait for us to get the deal done with the Crows first. If we trade pick #1, it will have to be massively in our favour, I don't see SOS doing it otherwise.

imo, McGovern not sure he quite warrants pick #15 in this year's draft. The only way the Crows would get that sort of value for him is if a club were desperate for him which I don't think we are. Or the AFL hand us the PP before finals teams and then 'force' us to trade it for an established player (which imo is also highly unlikely as I don't think they should have the power to force trades on clubs).

I reckon we should try and go for something like this:

#25 + #26 -> Swans
#14 -> Blues

(Gives them more points for academy bid)

Assuming we get the mid 1st PP, we have: #1 + #12 + #14

#14 + Blues 2019 2nd -> Crows
McGovern + #17 -> Blues

Assuming our 2019 2nd is about #22, puts McGovern at around #18 in value, we have: #1 + #12 + #17 + McGovern.

As for the Crows, it improves their draft position this year by a few places whilst also giving them a strong 2nd rounder for next year (which I imagine would be a good bargaining tool for this year's draft). Could easily see them working their way to pick #2 + #30 for #8 + #14 + Blues 2019 2nd rounder. Overall the Crows lose #8 + #17 + McGovern for their coveted top 3 pick and at least get #30 back from the Suns. There's no going around overpaying for a pick that early in this year's draft for the Crows imo.

#17 + Blues 2019 3rd -> GWS
Setterfield + #45 -> Blues

Assuming our 3rd next year is about #40, puts Setters at around #15 in value and we have: #1 + #12 + #45 + Setterfield + McGovern

Obviously, it's another convoluted scenario with trades being reliant on the first one happening, but instead, I tried to make use of our future picks in order to improve our situation this year.

 

[Prem17]

I think this could work for all teams. Carlton, Adelaide, Gold Coast, GWS involved.

Picks these teams have after Lynch compo and mid draft PPs for Carlton and Gold Coast (based on current ladder positions for finals sides)

Blues 1, 12, 27, 28

Suns 2, 3, 13, 20, 29, 32, 41

Giants 15, 26, 47, 51

Crows 8, 17, 22, 40

Trade 1 - Blues & Crows

#1, #27 for #8, #17 and McGovern (Values McGovern at #15)

Blues now have 8, 12, 17, 28 - We get McGovern, downgrade 1 to 8, upgrade 27 to 17

Crows now have 1, 22, 27, 40 - Lose McGovern, upgrade 8 to 1, downgrade 17 to 27

Trade 2 - Blues & Suns

#8, #12, #17 for #2, #13 (115 points advantage to Gold Coast)

Blues now have 2, 13, 28

Suns now have 3, 8, 12, 17, 20, 29, 32, 41 - Downgrade 2 to 8, Upgrade 13 to 12, gain 17 (Might help them from reaching for the King brothers)

Trade 3 - Blues & Giants

Trade 13 for Setterfield, #47, #51 (Values Setterfield at #30 but I don't think the Giants will value those later picks as much as us as we don't have any)

Blues now have 2, 28, 47, 51, 68 and 76. Gain Setterfield & 47 and 51, lose 13

Giants will have 13, 15, 26, 69. Gain 13, lose Setterfield, 47 and 51


Overall Carlton downgrade 1 to 2, 12 to 13 and lose 27 while gaining McGovern, Setterfield, 47 and 51

Take Walsh with #2, also use #28, #47, #51, #68, #76 in the draft


Obviously we would have to work on trades 1 and 2 concurrently because trading 1 is not a goer unless 2 is signed off at the same time.

I would rather us deal with future picks in a combination with this year's picks than see us offload first round picks for Setterfield this year.
Eg if we could land McGovern for this years PP we would be paying overs but he's contracted so we just have to suck it up.
Then we could try to package next years first for a premium mid ie Shiel, Beams, etc with one of our picks in the 20's from this years draft.
Alternatively we could offer our 2019 first and a 2018 second for a pick that satisfies GWS for Shiel this year. (1st round 2018 pick).
If we wait for free agency then he will probably end up at either North or a top 4 club.
By next year our first shouldn't be as crucial because one would hope that our current mids are injury free and starting to run amok. So in theory, that allows us to take a big step forward by being bold this year.

We could add Walsh at pick 1, pick up a Shiel or Beams by using our 2019 first, one of Setterfield/Brodie/Scrimshaw by trading a package of one of the picks in the 20's and any pick we get for Casboult, Fasolo as a free agent, then one of Libba/Horlin-Smith, etc as a free agent, and look at adding Barlow/Freeman/Hartung as delisted free agents as well.
Throw in Miles or Markov who wouldn't cost the earth and we have added a fair bit of quality to the squad without widening the gap between us and the rest by trading away 2018 first rounders.

 

[Jabba73]

I would rather us deal with future picks in a combination with this year's picks than see us offload first round picks for Setterfield this year.
Eg if we could land McGovern for this years PP we would be paying overs but he's contracted so we just have to suck it up.
Then we could try to package next years first for a premium mid ie Shiel, Beams, etc with one of our picks in the 20's from this years draft.
Alternatively we could offer our 2019 first and a 2018 second for a pick that satisfies GWS for Shiel this year. (1st round 2018 pick).
If we wait for free agency then he will probably end up at either North or a top 4 club.
By next year our first shouldn't be as crucial because one would hope that our current mids are injury free and starting to run amok. So in theory, that allows us to take a big step forward by being bold this year.

We could add Walsh at pick 1, pick up a Shiel or Beams by using our 2019 first, one of Setterfield/Brodie/Scrimshaw by trading a package of one of the picks in the 20's and any pick we get for Casboult, Fasolo as a free agent, then one of Libba/Horlin-Smith, etc as a free agent, and look at adding Barlow/Freeman/Hartung as delisted free agents as well.
Throw in Miles or Markov who wouldn't cost the earth and we have added a fair bit of quality to the squad without widening the gap between us and the rest by trading away 2018 first rounders.

Barlow and Hartung should only be recruiting targets for our VFL side, not for spots on our primary list. Would rather look for another Tim Kelly than hoping we can turn their careers around.

 

[Prem17]

Barlow and Hartung should only be recruiting targets for our VFL side, not for spots on our primary list. Would rather look for another Tim Kelly than hoping we can turn their careers around.

Yeah I agree. I was only using them as examples, although Barlow might be OK if he passes a medical. Not fussed about Hartung.
We won't know the full picture until delistings have finished.
Whatever happens you know that it's never straight swaps with SOS.
He will pull something out of the bag that blindsides everyone, so there will be 100's more pages of rumour talk before the trade deadline.
Good luck with that, mods!!!!!

 

[mrjones]

Correct.....because he is the type of player that finishes the play not starts it, so unless you have the players in the middle to get it down to him he would be a waste of talent........a bit like Menzel was for us, talented but not hard enough at it to play midfield.

I’m not really buying in to this type of thinking. We need improvement in multiple positions and it’s obvious we have deficiencies in midfield still. Last week we won the clearance and stoppages and also had more inside 50’s than Adelaide. We lack quality options forward as well and 3 or 4 more goals from these inside 50’s means 3 or 4 more centre bounces. Where we can hold our own.
Where we are being murdered is when we don’t score and there’s not enough quality pressuring the ball coming out of our attacking 50.
I’m not disagreeing on the need for mids but if an opportunity at the right cost presents itself to fill another need, I think we should go for it.

 

[Judds Junk]

Unrestricted free agent I believe.

then I say hell yes. Libba when fit is a gun.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Love him as a player, but don't want the progress we are making in regard to culture being effected.

Hopefully he has sorted out his off field

Agree not worth the gamble especially taking his knees into consideration .

 

[8 Lil Monkeys]

Libba + McGovern + Fasolo + whichever young prospect we can pry out of GC/GWS (Setterfield/Brodie/Scrimshaw).

Would be a pretty good offseason in terms of adding potency to the Best 22.

Hypothetically:

B: Simpson Weitering Plowman
HB: Docherty Marchbank Byrne
C: Fisher Cripps Petrevski-Seton
HF: McGovern C. Curnow Dow
F: Pickett McKay Fasolo
R: Kreuzer Liberatore Kennedy

I/C from: Williamson, O'Brien, Thomas, Kerridge, Lang, Garlett, Polson, Kerr, De Koning, Jones, Silvagni

Surely Murphy and Ed still make it into top 30 ?

 

[Space Cadet]

Of course we need Walsh he gives us 13/14 years service.

Libba 26 and Sheil 26 both turning 27 next year. 4/5 years service each at best.

Dow will give us 13/14 years. So will the guy we draft next year.
In saying that, I highly doubt SOS trades us out of the pointy end this year.

 

[skadoosh]

Why hasn't Libba been getting a game at the Dogs?

 

[Arr0w]

Why hasn't Libba been getting a game at the Dogs?

Did his 2nd ACL

 

[TooBlue14]

Why hasn't Libba been getting a game at the Dogs?

ACL.

 

[ferrisb]

Hearing that Kreuzer contemplating giving the game away.

30 next year, body is beat up, concussion and now heart issues.

Will take the next 6-8 weeks to weigh up his future

IronMan29, say it ain't so!

Love the Krooz

 

[Weiterbot23]

Wouldn't want to break the bank on a player with 2 ACLs and questionable behavior.

500k x 2 (could be pushed to 3 years)

 

[Wily trout]

If he gives it away, might be hard to find a decent mature replacement. Or do we just hope Phillips Lobbe or TDK can do the job?

Lobbe looked pretty good mostly, Phillips, when he can get on the park to give Lobbe a rest/games off. If this combo can get us through 2019/20, and we pick a young developing ruck as well as two more preseasons into TDK, then I would be happy. Hopefully our midfield gets stronger and less reliant on Kruez as an extra mid is the key.

 

[Benaly28]

A Shiel/ Setterfield combo and then Libba, then don't need Walsh.

WHAT??? You need to watch this kid play serious player.Cannot give up.

 

[ESKIE]

Is Libbas body up to it ? Last thing we need is injury prone in rehab

 

[Mezzoculo]

As it stands right now, our Pick 25 + either Plowman/Jones for MM and a Dominos Pizza.

PP notwithstanding.

Can't see it. Domino's pizza has zero trade value.

 

[Kramer1]

So we've apparently met with Goddard (achilles), Looking at Libba (acl), Setterfield (acl) and keen on the injury prone McGovern.

So do we play Max King forward or back?

 

[Accidental genius]

I think we should use pick 1 on lukosade...after this preseason H and curnow should have capacity to form a decent forward combination and Luko will most likely make good contribution in his first year...following year we should have a pretty good forward structure with flexibility to play any one of the three up the ground as they are all pretty mobile..
With remaining picks/trade options get a couple of mids and small forwards...

 

[kjr8]

I think the club should be in the process of giving out more and more one year contracts only ( their contract should be assessed on a year to year basis based on their performance every list spot is precious and critical now days ) ... to players that they have currently on their list and players they are looking to bring in with the exception of proven champions and young developing players identified with potential . . Players on the list need to be more dispensible and shouldnt be kept on the list any longer then they really should .

Then CFC would need to overpay for each and every one of those 1 year deal. No player not competent manager would do deals with far too little security.


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[Talrahir]

Agreed. Was the same when I got married. Was expecting to marry a super model, the reality was she looked like a dump truck.

Would be interesting to introduce a 'trial' status similar to the EPL/A-League. For example, an uncontracted player can train with the club and is eligible to play for 3 games. This could include a full pre-season prior to the 3 games, if the player agreed to the trial.

This could be something utilised throughout the year to assess state league players, but would probably only work with a mid-season trade period. An alternative to the mid-season trade period would be the clubs being able to offer a contract in advance, for example, Bobby Smith (23) from outback WA, completes a 3 game trial with the Blues in July 2019, and impresses. He is offered a contract to commence playing for the Blues at the start of 2020, and can train with them immediately, but cannot be selected until the 2020 season commences.

Not sure it would help with your marriage though....

 

[smashbox gill]

I think we should use pick 1 on lukosade...after this preseason H and curnow should have capacity to form a decent forward combination and Luko will most likely make good contribution in his first year...following year we should have a pretty good forward structure with flexibility to play any one of the three up the ground as they are all pretty mobile..
With remaining picks/trade options get a couple of mids and small forwards...

I would agree with you if we weren’t getting MM. Now that we are, despite how good Luko is, MM will offer atleast some of what we were going to get with Luko. Drafting a mid now far outweighs our need for Luko