Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[DangerousD]

Interstate academies are good for the game and can be fixed with some necessary (and IMHO inevitable) tweaks - NGA is where it gets murky. Players like J.Motlop, Quaynor, JUH being outside of the regular draft pool is an absolute farce.

All done to protect the Northern academies from complaining VIC teams

 

[TENACIOUS]

Fully agree with ditching the discount. I'm not really sure why it ever existed in the first place?

It is a great thing I agree, I'm more critical of the fairness of it. Collingwood absolutely should not have access to a generational no.1 draft pick because they gave up a few 3rd round picks, that's hilarious. Make them stump up a couple of firsts and actually pay for the privilege, which most teams would still do far more often than not.

I didn't mind the idea before where first rounders are 0% discount, 2nd are 10% and anything more is 20% discount. First rounders are really where the damage occurs, a speculative pick in the 40s on a f/s isn't really hurting anyone.

As Arrow said, even though I'd like these changes, I'd like them even more if they made them after we get Campo 1, Campo 2 & Cody...

Agree with this, but a new systems needs to allow clubs to have the currency to pay for the players...
Like Gold Coast this year, without discounts how do they pay the points for their 3x top 15 academy players?

Would't mind removing the discount, but allowing teams to stockpile points and use multiple pics to pay for a player
(like the old days, where we benefited)... Gives the bottom half teams the chance to upgrade their later picks and get better players to improve quicker..

 

[Keyza]

What's the assistance package got to do with academy kids? They'd be coming through regardless

As part of the assistance package the AFL handed them an extra zone in the NT.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

The points system over complicated things. It should be as simple as having to use a pick within 18 (ie a ‘round’) after the bid. So if your first rounder comes after the bid, you use that. If a bid comes after you’ve used your first rounder, you have to use your second. If you don’t have such a pick, tough cookies.

In Daicos case, Pies have to use their first rounder on him. Obviously still a great deal but not as obscene as getting to use a poo poo platter of late picks.

 

[Bletch]

The points system over complicated things. It should be as simple as having to use a pick within 18 (ie a ‘round’) after the bid. So if your first rounder comes after the bid, you use that. If a bid comes after you’ve used your first rounder, you have to use your second. If you don’t have such a pick, tough cookies.

In Daicos case, Pies have to use their first rounder on him. Obviously still a great deal but not as obscene as getting to use a poo poo platter of late picks.

That's how it used to be. And it was heavily exploited. Points system may be flawed, but it's way better than the old system.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

That's how it used to be. And it was heavily exploited. Points system may be flawed, but it's way better than the old system.

How can that be exploited? Either you have a pick within 18 (or whatever no is appropriate) of the bid or you don’t.

The points system is utter nonsense when it comes to elite talent.

 

[Bletch]

How can that be exploited? Either you have a pick with 18 (or whatever no is appropriate) of the bid or you don’t.

Example. 2014, Melbourne bid on Isaac Heeney with pick 2. Sydney were able to match it with their pick 18. Bargain!

Potential as to how this could be exploited. Suns have 3 potential top-10 academy picks this year. According to your rule proposal, they can match bids for them with round 2 picks, right? So they'd trade with teams holding picks 34-36 to get 3 x late round 2 picks, and get their 3 guys for sfa. They could then trade their natural round 1 and 2 picks to next year.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Example. 2014, Melbourne bid on Isaac Heeney with pick 2. Sydney were able to match it with their pick 18. Bargain!

Potential as to how this could be exploited. Suns have 3 potential top-10 academy picks this year. According to your rule proposal, they can match bids for them with round 2 picks, right? So they'd trade with teams holding picks 34-36 to get 3 x late round 2 picks, and get their 3 guys for sfa. They could then trade their natural round 1 and 2 picks to next year.

I’m less enamoured with the academy system and agree a model that forces teams to pay closer to fair value would be good. The advantage of having access to a player you otherwise wouldn’t is enough of a benefit.

But GC couldnt do what you’re proposing anyway. Say the bids come at 5, 7 and 10, what I’m saying is they’d need a pick within 18 of each (so 23, 25 and 28) which is a bit more than you’re suggesting.

 

[Bletch]

Not quite, I’m saying it needs to be within 18 picks of the bid, which represents a ‘round’ from the bid (not the actual rounds). Unless they’ve traded them away, teams are guaranteed to have a pick in this range.

So if a bid comes at pick 10, you need a pick within 11-28, which would either be your own first rounder or (if your first was prior to pick 9), your second rounder.

In the Daicos case, it’s still a bargain but much less of one than they got away with. And I still believe F/S should offer some benefit to the drafting team.

With academy, if you have 3 in the top ten, either trade to get the requisite picks or you don’t get to keep them. That said, I’m less enamoured with the academy system and agree a model that forces teams to pay closer to fair value would be good. The advantage of having access to a player you otherwise wouldn’t is enough of a benefit.

Ok, I get it. Still, heavily favours teams with top-end talent in play. 1 to 19 is a much better bargain than 51 to 69 for instance.

In Gold Coast's case, they'd probably want to get picks around 19, 22, 25 to be reasonably certain of getting their guys.

The Daicos case could have been much better for Collingwood - they traded away their first round pick on the assumption a bid for Daicos would come before it. That didn't happen. If they'd kept it, they could have had Finn Callaghan as well as Daicos.

 

[andyrogers80]

Ok, I get it. Still, heavily favours teams with top-end talent in play. 1 to 19 is a much better bargain than 51 to 69 for instance.

In Gold Coast's case, they'd probably want to get picks around 19, 22, 25 to be reasonably certain of getting their guys.

The Daicos case could have been much better for Collingwood - they traded away their first round pick on the assumption a bid for Daicos would come before it. That didn't happen. If they'd kept it, they could have had Finn Callaghan as well as Daicos.

You would suspect no bid came for Daicos because they didn’t have a first rounder. Like if they kept the first rounder, someone would have bid to keep them honest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[btdg]

Unfortunately, this year is the second year of the 'academy era' of the AFL. In a well balanced, neutral competition handing priority access to talented players to some clubs is going to wreak havoc and we are only just starting to see this IMO.

Last year Sydney made an unexpected GF; able to rebuild and stay strong while at the top through priority access to Mills, Heeney, Gulden, Campbell, Blakey (ugghh) the cornerstones of their new squad

This year, it's Brisbane - who rebuilt the old fashioned way, but capped it off through their academy which gave them Andrews, Hipwood, Coleman and Payne. Alongside them in the top 4 you have GWS and their absurd list including Green, Himmelberg, Perryman, Cumming, Briggs, Flynn, Buckley, Peatling and more.

How do you compete with this? Well the obvious answer is to be Collingwood, already be good, and luck into arguably the greatest haul of Father/Son recruits ever (Moore, Daicos, Daicos) and throw in an academy prospect of your own (Quaynor).

Let's not forget the likely impact of an already promising Gold Coast team getting 3x top 15 picks at once.

There is, imo, no way of fixing this system. The advantages of academies are severely underrated by the AFL; that includes F/S, but there's a great deal more luck with that imo. Pity that our peak is coming just as this starts to become apparent... I reckon in 3 years it might be all anyone is talking about...

 

[Forty3]

Not a very exciting one, but thought I'd put it out there.

James Jordan to Sydney.

 

[AB_Blue]

Grundy and Jordan

Sydney adding nice needs to complement what they have….if they snag a key defender look out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lace_Out]

Not so much of a rumour, but what actually happened.

We planned that 1st qtr v Brisbane, we wanted an onslaught to catch them off guard. Shame we didn't capitalise on it.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Blue and Silver]

Not so much of a rumour, but what actually happened.

We planned that 1st qtr v Brisbane, we wanted an onslaught to catch them off guard. Shame we didn't capitalise on it.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Makes sense.

I thought it would be smart to jump them, try and get the crowd out of it.

Shame that we couldn't convert that into a win

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[teagueyubeauty]

We used a lot of petrol tickets, and really should have been 8 goals if not for Harris Andrew’s

Oh well, they had a crack at what is the hardest place to win

Just need to build on it and finish Top 4 next year


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Benaly28]

We used a lot of petrol tickets, and really should have been 8 goals if not for Harris Andrew’s

Oh well, they had a crack at what is the hardest place to win

Just need to build on it and finish Top 4 next year


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Stay in Melbourne and reach the GF.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[AB_Blue]

Rumour from Sam Edmund on SEN says we are somewhat interested in H Crozier from dogs, potentially as a DFA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coona Blues]

Rumour from Sam Edmund on SEN says we are somewhat interested in H Crozier from dogs, potentially as a DFW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DFW ?
Don’t ****ing want. (Unless he has displayed coaching credentials)

 

[carlton_99]

Rumour from Sam Edmund on SEN says we are somewhat interested in H Crozier from dogs, potentially as a DFA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not really a position of need

 

[AB_Blue]

Not really a position of need

just writing what he said


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jooce8891]

wonder why?

 

[The Bighouse]

Rumour from Sam Edmund on SEN says we are somewhat interested in H Crozier from dogs, potentially as a DFA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heard this a while ago with a link to us, think it was from Sammy back then.

 

[AB_Blue]

wonder why?

Austin would have had a hand in recruiting him to Dogs…maybe he rates him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jooce8891]

Austin would have had a hand in recruiting him to Dogs…maybe he rates him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yeah i suspected the austin link, but i just dont see how he fits at carlton. possibly just one year then into a development role?