Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[Robertio]

True, it's just the chatter online, I'd be shocked if battle got them pick 8

I could be wrong but i believe size and length of the contract offered to him is the reason the Saints believe they'll get pick 8.

 

[Stamos]

I could be wrong but i believe size and length of the contract offered to him is the reason the Saints believe they'll get pick 8.

The journos are saying he's taking less money than the Saints offered, and that it's going to be too low for Band 1.
The AFL have changed the rules for this year, so it's harder to get each Band.

Nobody knows for sure, but it is unlikely they'll get Band 1.

 

[azlou]

I don't know the answer.

All the comments to me from people involved are he is strong, very much has a plan/philosphy and sticks with it regardless. The game plan and key points never change. He backs his senior group 100% and won't change

That can be good or bad.

The question I have is does he adapt to changes in the game and even during a game? The Zorko "tag" on the weekend for me was another example of him ignoring the obvious. He sets them up and should have had someone on him. After the first qtr he should have done something

I remember the Pies game. At 3 qtr time we were well ahead and the only way they would come back was if Daicos turned the game. He did and NO one went near him. Why?

These are just some examples. Is it Voss or the whole coaching staff?

Voss will be coach next year. He has many good qualities.

My question is can he change and adapt and improve? The game moves on so fast these days. All year we have heard the same statements and key words that mean bugger all. I am told it's very similar behind doors.

Everything I see and listen to is about how the game is becoming more run and numbers, taking game on and hitting moving targets. We STILL bomb it long to a contest and it doens't change. We have not changed from a contested 1 on 1 style and going down the line etc. The 6-6-6, holding the ball interpretation and stand on mark have changed the game dramatically. Trying to make it a contested game for 4 quarters is near impossible now

There are strong rumours that many players are frustrated and don't believe in what we are doing. Every week, it's about toughness, defensive work and consistency. Yet, nothing seems to improve and we have gone backwards dramatically

My concern (and fear) is we may be ruining an opportunity. I still believe we have the players if used properly and we get the best out of them

I heard that Voss ripped into Walsh after the Collingwood game “You had one fn job”.
Not disagreeing with most of your post because I agree but I think Walsh had a job in the last quarter and he played loose.
The rest of your post rings true to me

 

[FlowersByIrene]

The journos are saying he's taking less money than the Saints offered, and that it's going to be too low for Band 1.
The AFL have changed the rules for this year, so it's harder to get each Band.

Nobody knows for sure, but it is unlikely they'll get Band 1.

Unlikely based on the current logic. Given it is St Kilda and the AFL will want to give them a handout... i'm still suspecting they'll get band 1. I'm also very suspicious that GC (the AFL's pet project) will substantially overpay Richmond for Rioli.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Free Agency Compo should be abolished.

Frankly, I think all out of contract players should be free agents.

It's been long enough, the clubs get cap space and list spaces which they can use to attract other players.

If the player is contracted, you trade. Simple enough

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I like this but for me it's midfield and.

Yeah for sure, there are definitely a few other areas to address... KPD stocks, small forward, other defined role players, youth, perennially injured...

But yeah, imo, the midfield is top priority, the other areas we can still sort out but I'd want it to be with what's left over after addressing the midfield... no use spending top picks on a half back like Houston or even a kpd which then leaves us with crumbs to bring in some real midfield talent...

 

[Stamos]

Free Agency Compo should be abolished.

Frankly, I think all out of contract players should be free agents.

It's been long enough, the clubs get cap space and list spaces which they can use to attract other players.

If the player is contracted, you trade. Simple enough

I agree that compo should be abolished, but not that FA rights come to a player 2 or 3 years in.

If they must have compo, there should only be 3 bands, at the end of each round.
And get rid of Restricted FA, everyone unrestricted after 8 years service.

 

[Magruder]

Free Agency Compo should be abolished.

Frankly, I think all out of contract players should be free agents.

It's been long enough, the clubs get cap space and list spaces which they can use to attract other players.

If the player is contracted, you trade. Simple enough

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app

Or the cost of the compensation is borne by the recruiting club…

 

[DangerousD]

He will cost us around 2 x first round picks which could be TWO 10 year plus guns and restrict our SC to get more players or even sign TDK? He is 28 so while he can play for anotehr 5 years the reality is he will have 2-3 years maximum at his highest level

Not convinced the cost will be close to 2 1st round picks, more than our 1st but not by much.

The picks we would give up as you mentioned could be guns, they could also be busts, what % you can decide, but there’s plenty of busts in every 1st round, even in the top 10 and 5.

What is better?
Houston or 2 x first round kids and signing another Elijah type plus having ability to bring in a FA or 2 next year?

If you can guarantee you pick good players then I’d go the kids, but you can’t and I still think we could do a trade for an Acres or Hollands type regardless.

How it would affect salary cap is unknown as we don’t know his contract or the potential contract of others, but I can only assume that if we are chasing him, we think it’s manageable

As mentioned in regards to Houston having 2-3 years of quality football, that’s 2-3 years of quality football right in our premiership window and who knows the quality of his performance after, I think he would offer 3-4 years of quality but that’s unknown.

Wanting a premiership in the next year let alone two should already be a priority and is obtainable if the coaches and club rectified even a few of the things you have raised recently.

 

[LanceRomance]

Call me crazy, I'd rather be successful than big.

That's right, it's not the size of the boat it's the motion of the ocean

 

[Michael Jezz]

Thomas was probably a mistake but did get cruelled by injuries his first couple years with us, easy in hindsight but at the time he was arguably a top 10 player, a whiff but not sure it broke us in any way and was perhaps justifiable as we were looking to push into premiership contention. Williams I'll agree was a mistake though, hopefully his small forward form continues, and we get some value late but it's not looking great overall.

McGovern was 2x 2nd rounders. Has he paid that off? Probably. What value to do you really get for kids in the mid 20s-30s? The strike rate is quite low, based on pure numbers the trade is a definite win.

Cerra was a 21 yr old mid coming off a career best year and we only gave up 1x first round pick and a future 3rd. If anything, that deal was decent value considering he was a 2x top 5 BnF finisher, including a top 3, at that young age. Was our best player last season until late. Up until this yr was trending towards being a great get.

Of the 4 you named there the 2 free agents are busts but the draft pick trades have been successes.


Sydney invested in Buddy Franklin on a bigger contract than we've ever given anyone. Before that they heavily overinvested in Kurt Tippett who was on their books for years after he left. They also have an academy so access to value players that are better than those around them is a regular occurrence.

Geelong took on Dangerfield for 2x first round picks and a lot of $. Not to forget Jeremey Cameron (FA) also. Are they big names? Possibly 2 of the 3 biggest name moves in 10 yrs. Yeah, they get bargains, but how good do those bargains look without the elite around them? They aren't patched together by everyone elses discards, they've brought in some of the most premium names in the game and built around them.

Sorry mate you lost me in trying to compare Mcgovern & Cerra's output to Franklin, Cameron and Dangerfields'

 

[BlueJet]

We talk about being in a premiership window, ok.
It doesn't mean we have to limit moves to the here & now.
When we were getting smashed on the weekend, just about the last thing we needed was another attack first defender.
If you had thrown Whitfield & Houston there, it's likely the exact same outcome, our inability to prevent the ball getting there & then beating an opponent once it did was a far bigger concern.
Get pressure around the ball & our existing cohort are more than capable of opening sides up on the counter. A slow sluggish forward & midfield group, coupled with lack of a marking threat/movement offered by Pitt & Charlie often limits us more than an absence of viable players stationed in d50 IMO.
You don't say no outright to quality, which Houston undoubtedly is, I just question the cost to benefit of spending big on yet another small-medium defender.

 

[Coops93]

Sorry mate you lost me in trying to compare Mcgovern & Cerra's output to Franklin, Cameron and Dangerfields'

Have another read, I think you'll find I didn't compare their outputs.

 

[HarryFlashman]

So a player that adds something we need, shouldn't be considered because the rest of the team ahead of him on the ground are shit?

Our running half backs are a real weakness compared to say Whitfield, Ash, and Cumming. Collingwood's running backline has been the key for them.

If we had our pick of any player we wanted, then fine, we wouldn't choose Houston. He wants to come, he fills a need, we try to get it done. People would have said why get Pearce, Clape and Manton in '95 to add to a shithouse ageing team.

Yes it’s a need, but IMO it’s far from our most pressing need.
KPD & small forwards are the pressing need.

Houston will likely cost 2 1st round picks at a time where we need to be hitting the draft given impacted drafts are coming and our age profile.

We need some quality (1st round) kids coming thru - we need to be planning for the future.

We also need a game style & plan that utilizes someone like Houston’s capabilities - we don’t have that atm

 

[Arr0w]

Breakaway outside speed a high priority?

Speed all over the park

Just consider if we also had quicker versions of Weitering, Cripps, Elijah, Hewett, etc

Even if you add players where we have options, you can still change roles, like we did with Williams & Cincotta

Houston also improves, our IQ & distribution

It all comes down to cost. List Management will argue medium-long term view, coaches in side at our level will argue the now, but, you can find balance between both considering total list changes

 

[Arr0w]

Still waiting for the Bluemours...

Port lose this week and you will have one

 

[myblueroan]

Almost time for my favorite fun rumour poster and his cryptic spin posts.

Camon RoyalBlues

Here we are now
Entertain us

 

[Stamos]

Houston will likely cost 2 1st round picks

There is no way that we are paying 2 x 1st round picks.
Everything says we're taking #11 to the draft.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Reading B.Lloyd's trainwreck of an interview it seems the narrative in house is 'injuries leading to lack of continuity'.
This is fine if it accompanies coaching and MC accountability in their 'learnings' View attachment 2107269

If this is what Brad Lloyd is pushing then it looks like he's trying to absolve himself from taking responsibility...

His role as stated on the CFC website is to be responsible for overseeing key functions of the football department including list management, high performance, medical, coaching, operations and wellbeing...

High performance and medical is one part of it and it has clearly been a failure - hence the sacking retirement of Russell...

Let's look at list management now... not sure how many people realise this, but we are VERY tight for list spots... and we have pretty much zero trade capital other than our draft picks... too many players signed on too early and for too long... and our list is aging... iinm 6-8th oldest in the league? We should be smack bang in the middle of premiership window with that age demographic and we're yet to finish top 4... it has been a failure to this point.

Coaching... I've made my thoughts clear on this but I'll reiterate, selection integrity is a problem... I don't care how many people are fed up with the terminology, it is what it is. Selecting underdone players, persisting with them when they don't perform, playing them out of their preferred position in order to persist with them whilst pushing other role players out, contract based selections, not giving kids a go...

Then there's the d50 stoppage setups... dreadful. Forward chemistry... also dreadful... smalls that can't win ground ball, don't apply defensive pressure on opposition exiting their d50, don't kick enough goals... Charlie and Harry not working well together, constantly getting in each other's way, Charlie not leading up to the ball carrier...

We have a guy who played forward his whole career coaching the back line and a midfielder coaching our forwards... the playing group have had the same midfield coach since 2015 bar a few seasons...

Lack of effort and intensity... you don't start an ef final like that with <= 160 pressure rating... so buy in is gone now too...

So coaching, a failure to this point as well imo.

 

[mochacinolatte]

How the * do the saints get pick 8 for battle, what a * joke

FA Compensation has always been a joke.

 

[Arr0w]

There is no way that we are paying 2 x 1st round picks.
Everything says we're taking #11 to the draft.

Houston won't cost 2 1st in total value, far from it

 

[mochacinolatte]

Port either accept Pick 11 + change for houston or we just hit the draft.

Don't care either way, I prefer we address our KPD issues first.

 

[Juice030103]

Carlton gettable notes

• Ben campo won sanfl under 18s best player award. Got 18 votes from 6 games
• Houston wants to get to Victoria. Carlton saints dogs pies the 4 sides he’s seen. Voss really wants him but Carlton doesn’t wanna give up pick 11
• No offer still for owies, wants to stay but seems like he’s gonna leave
• Weitering set to be taken off the market on 6 year deal
• Jack Martin has interest in heading back to Queensland
• Laverde suitors Carlton and Geelong

 

[Stamos]

Port either accept Pick 11 + change for houston or we just hit the draft.

Don't care either way, I prefer we address our KPD issues first.

They would.
We're not giving up #11.

 

[No1Suspect]

We dont need Houston? Theres a really big thing in the middle of the ground, looks a bit like a square if im not mistaken.... we tend to avoid it like the plague, Houston unlocks it.