Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[carlton_99]

“Absolutely no way”: Manager of Carlton forward McKay shuts down Melbourne rumours

The Blues forward has been linked in a possible mega trade.

www.sen.com.au

 

[tarczonandjane]

I’m against a trade. But I will try and see it from the other side:

• my guess is it would be Harry for Petracca straight swap (the contract part is the one to keep an eye on - out of interest, which player is on the higher salary?)
• we keep all our picks
• but then, we really need to trade out Carroll and one of Hewett or Kennedy (how many big bodied midfielders can one list carry?)
• so potentially we add Petracca, our first round pick this year, and either a late first round or early second round pick (depending on what we turn Carroll and Hewett/Kennedy into)
• if we want another bite at the cherry, we trade our future first for another first this year

It does have the potential to reshape our list with the players we draft. And presumably it decreases our pressing need for a Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

/ Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

replacement, because Petracca plays that role, plus pushes into the midfield better than either of the Jacks.

If TDK showed competence as a forward, it does become more tempting, because he rests up there when we need another tall target.

My worry remains though that Petracca will lead our coaching staff to double down on crash and bash footy. The clearest sign they would follow a new road would be that if they get Petracca, they then trade out Kennedy/Hewett. But I don’t have confidence they would do it.

 

[myblueroan]

Trac is a game winning super star, he still wouldn’t fix what’s wrong with us and would set us back massively.
Personally I think it’s time for us to be bold & get a trade massively right or disastrously wrong - if u can turn Harry/Charlie into 2 very good players (young quick mid/forward & a key back) I think the sum total of 2 very good players outweighs 1 key forward.
If having 2 gun tall forwards was going to work for us - we would have seen it already.
Yes they have beat up on crap teams but it’s not like they are an unstoppable force most weeks - on paper they should be, but the reality is it hasn’t worked that way.

We haven't had a brilliant forwards coach yet though. If we lack in any area, surely tactical nouse has to be right up there?

 

[Soapy V]

Petracca is a Star and would really improve us short term. Midfield and forward he makes a difference

Issues for me
1. I’m NOT trading Harry or any other gun player. Not good for harmony
2. He’s 29
3. He’s coming back from severe injury
4. Would severely impact salary cap
5. Picks, trades would limit us
6. 2-3 years left at his best maximum
7. Might limit development/games for Lord Wilson etc

IF we were to get him you would want to be sure we would win a flag. It’s an all in strategy for next 2-3 years

I believe that with some smart trades and game improvement we are a flag chance in 2025.

It’s a big call and I lean towards not doing it.

 

[goreds]

TDK, Harry and Charlie do not slow us down.

Three of the most mobile key position / rucks in the league.

If this is what the club feels then they're placing the blame of our slow team in the wrong place and I'm genuinely concerned.

If the alternative is Pittonet in the 22 and Petracca then that makes our talls even slower collectively.

Slow us down can mean more than leg speed.

Trac is one of the top 3 hardest players to stop/pick up/double team.

I agree that giving up H is not the answer but we have to find a way…

 

[Pixelshooter]

I think it'd be absolute madness to even think about trading H. When you have two key forwards like H and Charlie, and get rid of one, you're effectively a patella injury away from having nothing. People must have short memories to forget how long Charlie was out of the game.

And 2 key backs hanging off Charlie instead of one.

Add to that possible player disharmony, t's just not worth it.

If there was another way to get him in the club...sure. But don't risk the fabric of the club in the process.

 

[RPCB]

The Harry McKay talk with respect to the Petracca trade is all “Carlton hating media driven” - where was all this talk about marquee players being involved with previous mega player moves like Jeremy Cameron.

If a trade is to be done it will be picks only.

On this occasion (and all occasions it seems), it was from Carlton supporter Sam McClure. On the eve of finals no less. He know what sells clicks and doesn’t give a crap.

Sam might as well be Mark Robinson when it comes to Carlton.

 

[Blues of 77]

Slow us down can mean more than leg speed.

Trac is one of the top 3 hardest players to stop/pick up/double team.

I agree that giving up H is not the answer but we have to find a way…

I've got confidence (although it's waning a little) that our recruitment team won't be getting lost in the shiny new toy that is Petracca. Harry is going nowhere so to get Trac, we'd need to give up multiple first rounders. The team needs a key defender much more than another mid. I'd prefer to be sending first round picks to Gold Coast for Mac Andrew.

 

[HaydossJ]

“Absolutely no way”: Manager of Carlton forward McKay shuts down Melbourne rumours

The Blues forward has been linked in a possible mega trade.

www.sen.com.au

Fantastic <3

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Watching Footy Classified. Sam McClure believes that Carlton are open to trading McKay. Wow.

I’m not surprised. I almost don’t want to say this out loud but I’d think seriously about it if it’s a straight swap. Petracca is a complete game breaker and of a type we don’t have. TDK, Cripps, Walsh and Trac is far and away the best midfield in the comp.

I also think that spending that much money on two AA quality KPFs is not value for money because there is too much overlap. And Tracs ability forward offsets the loss of harry anyway.

It would also allow us to free up salary space for another KPD by releasing/trading Martin and Kennedy.

And I say that as someone who LOVES Harry. To the point where Id almost rather trade Chuck.

Caveat is that only interested in a straight swap. Not interested in sending extra their way to get it done.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Pretty comfortable with the way TDK is progressing. Genuinely think that he is mapping to shortly be the most damaging ruckman in the comp. If so, surely that means that how he is being taught can't be too far off the mark.

Perhaps. Still feel his ruckwork itself lets him down. Maybe that'll follow soon, but I reckon it's gonna have to cause with his athleticism we're missing an absolute trick if he's doing his best work at ground level rather than feeding taps into the path of Cripps, Hewett, Walsh and co.

 

[goreds]

I've got confidence (although it's waning a little) that our recruitment team won't be getting lost in the shiny new toy that is Petracca. Harry is going nowhere so to get Trac, we'd need to give up multiple first rounders. The team needs a key defender much more than another mid. I'd prefer to be sending first round picks to Gold Coast for Mac Andrew.

Trac is soooo much more than a mid…

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Petracca would fit in very well at Collingwood.

Plenty of cap space but nothing to trade

 

[Wickzki]

Slow us down can mean more than leg speed.

Trac is one of the top 3 hardest players to stop/pick up/double team.

I agree that giving up H is not the answer but we have to find a way…

What is the alternative is to trading one of our big 3.

The answer is Pittonet.

How does that make us "faster" in any semblance of the term?

Even IQ wise Pittonet is behind the other 3

That we get faster trading one of the 3 is ridiculous.

 

[SolGoodman]

“Absolutely no way”: Manager of Carlton forward McKay shuts down Melbourne rumours

The Blues forward has been linked in a possible mega trade.

www.sen.com.au

Respectfully, he’s not exactly going to come out and say his client is interested in a possible trade on the eve of a finals campaign…

 

[carlton_99]

Respectfully, he’s not exactly going to come out and say his client is interested in a possible trade on the eve of a finals campaign…

It says in the article that the club have said its not coming from them and they will be speaking to McKay today

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Harry or Charlie for 2 very good players that fit an identified need.

I believe 2 key pieces is a greater benefit than 1 key forward.

I think we would be a much better side with a partner for Weiters & a top flight mid.
We need to be mindful of having prolonged success - Weiters needs a partner/under study & we need a damaging mid/forward.

I understand in theory but every other team is jealous of us both having Charlie and Harry in the forward line. They are a formidable force.
Petracca would be the piece to a few flags in the next few years for sure.
I would be happy to trade Cerra as part of the deal.
Yes another key back for Jacob is a must but I'm not sure how we do that. We should have been into this Barrass fella.
We are a destination club now ( people know it was key injuries that dropped us from 2nd on the ladder ) so we should be attracting players.
Who knows maybe we are... Sayers and his crew keep things quiet now days...

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SolGoodman]

It says in the article that the club have said its not coming from them and they will be speaking to McKay today

I think it’s all dribble personally, but, we really won’t know anything concrete till after our finals campaign anyway.

Been a good discussion point here though.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Fantastic QUOTE]

Id like the club to come out emphatically, firstly lambasting Sam Maclure for making shit up and destabilising the player and the club and secondly to say he ain’t going anywhere and thirdly lambasting the media in general for constantly making shit up


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Can I say I am bemused by the massive elephant in the room.

I understand the other reasons for Trac wanting out of Melbourne but it's pretty well stated that the numero uno reason has been their mishandling of his injury.

If this is true....

Then why the absolute hell would he want to come to Carlton who have been mismanaging and mishandling players health matters for the better part of twenty years.

Other than Charlie Curnow and his knee (and there's enough chapters in that to write a book) who was the last player that we've had with significant health issues that has come all of the day back without suffering reinjury?

You can write a whole other book on players who have had one major injury and subsequently become injury prone - players who's careers have been destroyed by reinjury. Of course not all of it can be placed on the club but we've got a whole lot more than our fair share that there's a pattern.

And because there's a pattern there I feel like the club buying into Petracca is buying into a bill of goods that may never be possible to fill.

Someone compared getting Petracca to when we signed Chris Judd. Other than both being big names and both having had serious injuries before acquisition (Judd and his famous shoulders) there's a massive difference. Judd was in the prime of his athletic career and unless disaster struck had years ahead of him.

Petracca is a half decade older in an era where the level of professionalism has skyrocketed. Even if Petracca gets back to thr peak of what will be his new athletic health (and from what I've heard is that he has been cleared for cardio since my first comments on the rehabilitation which is huge as it's a massive gateway marker) the end comes a lot more quickly these days than what it used to.

The high likelihood is that the Petracca we would get in 2025 is likely to be the peak of his physical performance. Even if he sustains for longer than most you're not going to get the same level of player every year. It doesn't work like that.

If Melbourne does sell Petracca it will extract the absolute highest value for him. He is the centrepiece of their entire list. He's got a squeaky clean image on and off the field, has no mental health or drug issues, no major character flaws or issues (that we know of) and is their most marketable player with years left in his career (who knows how long Gawn has left, he's given them his soul).

I'm just not sold on the dream with Petracca when it comes down to including one of our cornerstones who has given the club it's loyalty. I have no doubt that Petracca would give this football club the absolute best he can but I'm not sold that our football club can say and do the same in return when history paints a very clear picture that we don't manage significant injuries well.

And that is why I'm dead set against including a McKay (injury prone himself) level talent back and would only accept a non-Cripps and Walsh midfielder with Cerrs (and those hamstrings) being the preferred trade.

When it comes down to it it's more of an us, it's not a him issue.

Darren Burgess is why

 

[Blue__Balls]

I've got confidence (although it's waning a little) that our recruitment team won't be getting lost in the shiny new toy that is Petracca. Harry is going nowhere so to get Trac, we'd need to give up multiple first rounders. The team needs a key defender much more than another mid. I'd prefer to be sending first round picks to Gold Coast for Mac Andrew.

That's great, but Mac Andrew hasn't seemingly declared he wants to be traded.

Player trading isn't a simple matter of picking a player at another club and "getting them". The market is limited, and you take the opportunities that present themselves.

Glad Harry's manager has nixed this one though, offloading Harry would be a terrible move. How did Charlie look heading into finals last year when Harry missed a chunk of footy and Chuck had to hold down the forward line by himself...he was cooked by the first week of finals.

Happy to look at Petracca, but has to be based on cost. We give up picks and Melbourne can take those picks elsewhere to secure a KPF. Petracca for a couple of picks, Leek Aleer for a later pick or two, call it a day.

 

[YeoShuey]

It says in the article that the club have said its not coming from them and they will be speaking to McKay today

Interesting because Melbourne have said it is not coming from them.

It makes you wonder who is the originating source.

 

[Wickzki]

Darren Burgess is why

Great. Another high performance manager who loves driving his players into the ground and believes that training as hard as possible is the way to go.

 

[T2B_]

“Absolutely no way”: Manager of Carlton forward McKay shuts down Melbourne rumours

The Blues forward has been linked in a possible mega trade.

www.sen.com.au

Love this, can't be any more emphatic than that

 

[HarryFlashman]

I understand in theory but every other team is jealous of us both having Charlie and Harry in the forward line. They are a formidable force.
Petracca would be the piece to a few flags in the next few years for sure.
I would be happy to trade Cerra as part of the deal.
Yes another key back for Jacob is a must but I'm not sure how we do that. We should have been into this Barrass fella.
We are a destination club now ( people know it was key injuries that dropped us from 2nd on the ladder ) so we should be attracting players.
Who knows maybe we are... Sayers and his crew keep things quiet now days...

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

On paper they are a formidable force & everyone is rightfully jealous.
The way we play- not so much, if they were so unstoppable we wouldn’t get stopped so consistently!
I’m looking at this from the view that Voss isn’t going anywhere & even thou the pieces are there, we haven’t developed a style or structure to use them both to the full advantage.
To get maximum return u need to give up something that really hurts.
Personally I’d like to see us play a free flowing, attacking brand of footy with both of them leading up away from each other and causing havoc & piling on a score.
If we haven’t done it yet I can’t see it happening & happy to look at other ways to build the side.