Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[jimsta10]

I spoke to my best mate, hes italian.. he told me lygon st will dishing out free food for a week if true (his words not mine)

 

[mochacinolatte]

100% agree with doing due diligence…

If it was a money issue for us, Cook would have already laughed it off.
List balance, we have 3-4 years to win a flag.
Trade cost, see above.
Injury, he’s pissed at the club for his treatment, it was the last straw in his eyes. That’s why the Dees will trade him or he will whack them on the way out, rightly so from what I’ve heard…

Honestly, I think our window is still pretty good after that. Walsh/Cerra/Ellijah taking over the midfield in their prime. TDK will be around. Curnow/Harry will stick around in their 30s... Just need to ensure we are drafting for the future as well.

 

[goreds]

Anyone who has ever played any form of footy or team sports understand that you play to win and make friends along the way....... its not one or either.......

Correct, you play to win and make friends along the way…

 

[Abers]

Durdin is physically much more talented than Owies, as were Dow, Stocker, Fisher, Boekhorst, et al.

Owies still consistently kicks goals though. We do need at least one forward with some footy smarts.

Durdin has failed to impact on all but two games he has played this year, one which was against a hopeless West Coast. He has managed only 1 tackle or less in more than half of his games.

He constantly flys for marks when H or Charlie are up.

We are almost always better playing with one short than Durdin, I haven’t seen many worse players ever.

 

[circusdevil]

Imagine a world where you actually had to work to convince people that Trac is an out and out superstar who would likely get us to our next flag…

So was Judd .... where's our flags? No one is saying he's not a superstar. Everyone would want him in Carlton colours. The issue is what would have to be given up. Give too much and it could cost this flag that you think is almost guaranteed.

 

[ferrisb]

Also, unless Harry has actually expressed a desire to leave, pushing out a well liked, contracted player, that is a key member of the 2015 premiership pact core could be diabolical for culture.

Collingwood pushed out a reluctant and popular Adam Treloar in 2020, when he had five years left on his contract. Brutal.

In 2022, they traded out Brodie Grundy, who had been in the leadership group the year before and had four years left on his monster contract. Brtutal MkII. These trades helped the Pies to recruit Hill, Mitchell, Frampton and McStay.

A year later they win the flag (* involuntary twitch*).

I am all for culture, but sometimes there are 'greater good' considerations. Not specifically talking McKay vs Petracca, but just in general.

 

[ferrisb]

It's a 6-10 month recovery and he's golden.

I had my spleen taken out when I was a kid and I am perfectly norm..... nope, can't finish that thought...

 

[RPCB]

Pick 2?

After our club didn’t turn Norf into a lawn bowls club when we owned part of their club, they owe us one.

 

[ferrisb]

The 3 way trade might let that happen.
What 3 way trade?
The one happening in my head!

Mods, can we hand out badges to the most ridiculous trade hypotheticals?

Bonus points for every extra club involved in the hypothetical!!!

 

[smit_is]

The individual plays footy to win flags, the club is the tool to make that happen. If the tool is blunt or superseded by a new one or has become dangerous, then the individual will change it…

Ah man, that’s a horrible take on it. Reducing the club or player to being merely a 'tool' again oversimplifies the complex relationship between players, teams, and success. Football is a team sport that relies on camaraderie, trust, and shared experiences. You want the players to play for each other and the club!!

Having worked and played in teams with both exceptional and toxic cultures, I know without doubt the impact this can have on performance.

 

[Red Bull]

.. because it’s nothing like the Carlton of old to which you refer.

Frankly, it’s a lazy and convenient take on the situation for those who are letting emotion towards Carlton players rule common sense.

And if it’s not that, then it’s an attitude of people who are so scarred by the past that they’re too afraid to embrace the present (which is still emotion ruling common sense, but for different reasons to what I meant above). Almost feels like some fans find comfort and security by being in this perpetual cycle of looking to the future - unable to take the final step in the present for risk of failure.

This rebuild started in 2015 with Docherty and Cripps.
Next season Cripps will be 30yo and Curnow Weitering McKay 28yo.
The list is nearly there but not good enough to take the ultimate step.
We are missing the most important piece in the modern game, the explosive goal kicking midfielder.
These guys are king today … they are the difference makers and the match winners.
We may have the chance to grab one of the competitions absolute elite and push us over the top.
When is it time to GO ?
When will this list, with the addition of one of the elite gamebreakers be more ready to pull the trigger on the final assault ?
Ten years in the making, on the back of 20 barren years before that … building, grinding and fighting … sooner or later you have to have the courage to take your shot at the title.
With the right moves we can balance the list and finally be ready … really ready !!

In : Petracca
Out : McKay

In : Aleer
Out : 2025 1st rounder

In : Houston
Out 2024 1st & 2nd rounders

In : Campo twins
Out : trade returns on Owies Hewett Martin and current 2024 3rd rounders.

Saad Weitering McGovern
Houston Aleer Cowan
Walsh Cripps Acres
Hollands TDK Williams
Motlop Curnow Kemp

Pittonet Petracca Cerra

Docherty Kennedy Durdin Hollands Cincotta.

It’s GO time … NOW !!

 

[JustaBattler]

Carlton has matched contract duration and payments to player age and quality since Cook (and Voss) arrived.

Petracca's mooted money at Melbourne is way way over anything that Carlton is paying anyone based on the formula above.

So Petracca switching Clubs on same money terms as he is currently ( talked about earning) is the first consideration - and only a consideration based on the first assumption below which is an open question :

Will Petracca be able to play at the same standard he hs demonstrated previously at his best at Carlton for the duration of his contract - which in my opinion is a big ask of any player

The second consideration is does Petracca playing at his best and on significantly more money than ( eg Cripps or Curnow or McKay or in due course TDK or Walsh or Weitering) replace and significantly improve the team if one of the above quality players is traded out - because THAT is what the team portfolio question is

The third consideration is - would the team be more improved IF the hypothetical money spent on Petracca was spent in other areas?

The fourth consideration is if the cost of Petracca was not only money but also 'a' Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

and also picks - would the cost to the team portfolio in terms of investment in the draft/trade be warranted?

Now put your feet in Melbourne's shoes

They have one of the best players in the competition who has been granted a very generous long term contract around which they thought they could build their between the arcs and forward fifty team. He is very unhappy. He is also coming back from what has been reported as being life threatening surgery. He will need time to get healthier and fitter and who knows how long that will take and he wants out and has stated it ( apparently) in front of all the player group and has made it clear he wont go anywhere except to a bigger Melbourne Club.

That reduces the options that Melbourne have as far as deal-making goes. That means for all their chest puffery - they wont want a player who doesn't want to be there ( aka Joe Daniher at Essendon) not being 100% committed and causing internal problems because of pay etc etc etc

The two obvious candidates for Petracca are Collingwood ( who dont have player or pick capital to throw around ) Carlton who have a theoretical player in McKay who has unequivocally stated GAGF about moving and Carlton having stated the same - and you have (potentially) Essendon - who will have picks and salary cap space and play in front of big crowds - but dont have a player that Melbourne want.

Melbourne are in a bad position - there is no need for Carlton to make its position as a team and Club worse by helping Melbourne where others ( Collingwood and Essendon) cant.

and I dont think Carlton can afford to throw money around as they did with Williams and McGovern.

Neither of whom would be of any interest to Melbourne.

Fascinating situation - Petracca might have to accept less if he wants out- a lot less and Melbourne will definitely have to accept less than their chest puffer media commentators are suggesting.

I'd like to see Petraca at Carlton as much as anyone else - but I also wouldn't give Melbourne anything except draft picks and players we dont want.

As for those who think giving up Harry for petracca and picks and whatever else Melbourne want and whatever Petracca wants - yeah naaa.

 

[Stamos]

Collingwood pushed out a reluctant and popular Adam Treloar in 2020, when he had five years left on his contract. Brutal.

In 2022, they traded out Brodie Grundy, who had been in the leadership group the year before and had four years left on his monster contract. Brtutal MkII. These trades helped the Pies to recruit Hill, Mitchell, Frampton and McStay.

A year later they win the flag (* involuntary twitch*).

I am all for culture, but sometimes there are 'greater good' considerations. Not specifically talking McKay vs Petracca, but just in general.

True, although the main reason for getting rid of those players is they would have been over the salary cap. And they had signed a ridiculous contract massively over-paying Grundy.
So those brutal calls were on the back or terrible mistakes, not out of the blue.

And you have to factor in the extraordinary amount of luck they had to win the flag last year.
This year they missed the finals.

 

[jimsta10]

It's a 6-10 month recovery and he's golden.

I didnt realise it was that long...

 

[mochacinolatte]

Collingwood pushed out a reluctant and popular Adam Treloar in 2020, when he had five years left on his contract. Brutal.

In 2022, they traded out Brodie Grundy, who had been in the leadership group the year before and had four years left on his monster contract. Brtutal MkII. These trades helped the Pies to recruit Hill, Mitchell, Frampton and McStay.

A year later they win the flag (* involuntary twitch*).

I am all for culture, but sometimes there are 'greater good' considerations. Not specifically talking McKay vs Petracca, but just in general.

I think we gotta dive a bit deeper into this analysis.

1. Collingwood seriously had issues with Cap Space, remember they took on Dayne Beams and needed to move someone off the books. Hence Trealor.

2. Adam/Grundy were out of formed when they were traded at the time (Brutal since they seemed to love the place but end of the tenure became a bit sour). Harry McKay isn't out of formed, just unlucky with injuries. McKay was tracking to have a really good season before our squad fell apart.

 

[charred_fate]

So was Judd .... where's our flags? No one is saying he's not a superstar. Everyone would want him in Carlton colours. The issue is what would have to be given up. Give too much and it could cost this flag that you think is almost guaranteed.

Come on now. The Carlton now is nothing like the Carlton then - I’m sure you can see that.

I never thought we had the making of a Premiership team then - we hoped that Murph, Krooz, Gibbs etc would get us there but nothing had been proven when Judd was traded in (I wanted to trade Fev, keep JK and keep our picks).

We absolutely have the makings now with our star players in their prime years - it would be like adding a young Judd (in terms of player type) to a team that is on the cusp of winning a flag.

We can head into 2025 among a collection of teams that are in with a shot to win a flag, or we can head into 2025 with a team that should not be anything other than Premiers.

 

[smit_is]

Collingwood pushed out a reluctant and popular Adam Treloar in 2020, when he had five years left on his contract. Brutal.

In 2022, they traded out Brodie Grundy, who had been in the leadership group the year before and had four years left on his monster contract. Brtutal MkII. These trades helped the Pies to recruit Hill, Mitchell, Frampton and McStay.

A year later they win the flag (* involuntary twitch*).

I am all for culture, but sometimes there are 'greater good' considerations. Not specifically talking McKay vs Petracca, but just in general.

Great points, but I’d argue they were pushed out to relieve salary cap pressures, and so they could retain other existing players (Daicos brothers etc.) who were due for a significant pay rise.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it was a case of getting rid of a player on ≈$1 million, to bring in another player on ≈$1.2 million.

 

[ferrisb]

Steady on lumping me in with medical people Mal. I nearly drank the fish tank cleaner.

 

[Arr0w]

Petracca would certainly make us better, but can't see any of our gun talls departing

If anything you would look at moving on a mid or 2

 

[GT619]

Because Durds is more talented, a lot quicker, and 5 years younger.

maybe joe berry is on our radar maybe the reason

 

[mochacinolatte]

I hate who ever started the trading McKay rumour. Reading these trade scenaro is giving me brain aneurysm.

 

[Blue since 72]

I had my spleen taken out when I was a kid and I am perfectly norm..... nope, can't finish that thought...

Yes but can you play midfield?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I didnt realise it was that long...

It's a self repairing organ. Most repair themselves, but sometimes surgical intervention is required, which is what happened here. I guess it's just the internal healing from that surgery.

I don't know, I just glanced over that study re ice hockey players where this is quite a common injury.

 

[RPCB]

I am shocked to be sitting here that after all the hooting and hollering over Andrew Russell’s impending retirement that we currently have supporters that are all for trading Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

for a player who’s body might be so ****ed that it’s more ****ed than Caleb Marchbank’s.

Crazy.

 

[Blue since 72]

I am shocked to be sitting here that after all the whooping and hollering over Andrew Russell’s impending retirement that we currently have supporters that are all for trading Harry McKay for a player who’s body might be so ****ed that it’s more ****ed than Caleb Marchbank’s.

Crazy.

Tbh I'd be more concerned about his mental state, bodies can repair but will he put his body in the way?