Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Saad was the covid draft. That’s the least valuable picks had ever been.

Yeah, but he's 30 now and probably going to lose some of the attributes that we got him for. He really struggled this season. It wasn't really our most pressing need at the time IMO.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Yeah, but he's 30 now and probably going to lose some of the attributes that we got him for. He really struggled this season. It wasn't really our most pressing need at the time IMO.

we couldn’t move the ball out of the backline.
We already had our spine set and the very next season had the midfield we have now. Since then we have done nothing but bring in periphery players. Saad is exactly what we were looking for at the time.
Now we look to need pace around the midfield and forward talent but seeming we haven’t done much to address that over the last 3 years we probably wouldn’t have then either.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

1. Austin was aware that JUH and Campbell bids would move 8 to 10.

2. Yes some might have good careers. But you can’t ignore the 120+ elite level games that Saad will have given us.

3. I don’t understand this point. Out of the 50+ players drafted from #10 onwards, just Holmes and Gulden would be preferred to Saad. That is a 4% hit. You say ‘we don’t use hindsight’ - I say, Austin believed the 2020 draft was too risky and a known product in Saad was the better option. He was right.

4 & 5. Again, I’m not understanding. Are you saying that what happens after the trade is irrelevant? Lachie Neale was traded for 6 & 19 before he made an all-australian side. He is now a dual Brownlow medalist and premiership captain. Did Brisbane overpay?

I'm saying that we traded for Saad thinking we'd probably get what he had given so far, not that he would become AA quality after the trade.

There is a lot of conjecture in some of these points. 120 elite level games you say. He's played 86 so far, but I'd venture that maybe 60 or so have been elite. This doesn't define the trade in any way, but I'd rather some give and take in a discussion, rather than hyperbole.

As of Lachie Neale, he was a 25 year old midfielder, who had just made the AA squad and just won his 2nd B&F at Freo. Freo also got #30 back in that trade. No, they didn't overpay. If they could ask for his worth to come, the price would have been a hell of a lot higher.

What do you think Houston is worth as a dual AA halfback?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

And on Saads age, we should have been competing for premierships over the last two years regardless of what that pick was used on.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

we couldn’t move the ball out of the backline.
We already had our spine set and the very next season had the midfield we have now. Since then we have done nothing but bring in periphery players. Saad is exactly what we were looking for at the time.
Now we look to need pace around the midfield and forward talent but seeming we haven’t done much to address that over the last 3 years we probably wouldn’t have then either.

And we are back to not being able to move the ball out of our backline again as well.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

And on Saads age, we should have been competing for premierships over the last two years regardless of what that pick was used on.

We haven't been (despite the prelim run last year), because we haven't been able to address those other issues. We have one genuinely quick small forward, who hasn't come on yet. We have no express midfielders. The midfield pace is behind a heap of our issues, especially since 6-6-6 came in. I can't help but feel this was the area that needed to be addressed first.

 

[carlton_99]

I agree that Austin has been underwhelming. I think we overpaid on Saad, and Cerra wasn't required, especially with Hewett brought in.

Cerra is a very different midfielder to Hewett. Cerra I still think was a necessary pick up - critical for us that we get him fit for 25'. Big reason why our midfield worked so well in 23'

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We haven't been (despite the prelim run last year), because we haven't been able to address those other issues. We have one genuinely quick small forward, who hasn't come on yet. We have no express midfielders. The midfield pace is behind a heap of our issues, especially since 6-6-6 came in. I can't help but feel this was the area that needed to be addressed first.

The point is they were never going to address it. We have had three first round picks since Saad and haven’t chased those types with them.
There has been plenty of time between picking up Saad and now to build a premiership contender side. He is about the only player we have picked up in the last four years that has really filled a need.
(Harsh a Cerra as I think he will make a lot of people look silly next season)

 

[JustOneTime]

Overpaid on Saad? 10 for an All-Australian level defender in a COVID-impacted draft seems a good price to me.

Which of these players (drafted 10-18) would you swap for Saad?

Zach Reid
Luke Pedlar
Tanner Bruhn
Tom Powell
Heath Chapman
Connor Stone
Lachie Jones
Ollie Henry
Ryan Angwin

Yes we overpaid and maybe we had to; maybe austin was weak. But it hurts us now. Pick 8 for 3-5 years footy is a lot.

It's why we look fools when talking to Port Adelaide about Houston right now. Roughly same age but Houston is a bonafide all Australian under contract while Saad wasn't. I'd agree Saad was close but in the actual deal itself, and out in the media, it is points against.

Port is looking at pick 13 and saying take a run and jump because of the Saad deal. Austin has nothing to fight back with and it is of his own making.

Austin not fighting hard enough vs the Dodo bird costs us now. Austin cant now say its not about All australian it is about years of footy left. A ten year draftee vs 3-4 years of service. He cant say that because he already bent over for Saad.

 

[carlton_99]

Yes we overpaid and maybe we had to; maybe austin was weak. But it hurts us now. Pick 8 for 3-5 years footy is a lot.

It's why we look fools when talking to Port Adelaide about Houston right now. Roughly same age but Houston is a bonafide all Australian under contract while Saad wasn't.

Port is looking at pick 13 and saying take a run and jump because of the Saad deal. Austin has nothing to fight back with and it is of his own making.

Austin not fighting hard enough vs the Dodo bird costs us now. Austin cant now say its not about All australian it is about years of footy left. A ten year draftee vs 3-4 years of service. He cant say that because he already bent over for Saad.

Port won't accept 13 alone no matter who has it - has nothing to do with Saad

 

[JustOneTime]

Port won't accept 13 alone no matter who has it - has nothing to do with Saad

I know that. I'm explaining the back and forth that would happen between them. You are explaining the outcome.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The point is they were never going to address it. We have had three first round picks since Saad and haven’t chased those types with them.
There has been plenty of time between picking up Saad and now to build a premiership contender side. He is about the only player we have picked up in the last four years that has really filled a need.
(Harsh a Cerra as I think he will make a lot of people look silly next season)

We just try to get any decent player who wants to come to us, without enough thought about the types we need. We didn't need Cerra at the time, even if he becomes a great player for us.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Cerra is a very different midfielder to Hewett. Cerra I still think was a necessary pick up - critical for us that we get him fit for 25'. Big reason why our midfield worked so well in 23'

I'm thinking more about the one-paced midfield. We already had Cripps and Kennedy, and then added Hewett and Cerra in the one off-season. Hewett as a FA was fair, but a decent first rounder for Cerra when we had other needs, was a luxury.

 

[katmanblue]

Sin?

Everyday

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[katmanblue]

I’m interested to see people’s opinions on Docs return in ‘25
I do not see him improving our midfield (wings incl) and not convinced about HB either

Very handy back-up and leadership

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[katmanblue]

Third generation. One to go.

Generating the fourth

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[BlueJet]

Yes we overpaid and maybe we had to; maybe austin was weak. But it hurts us now. Pick 8 for 3-5 years footy is a lot.

It's why we look fools when talking to Port Adelaide about Houston right now. Roughly same age but Houston is a bonafide all Australian under contract while Saad wasn't. I'd agree Saad was close but in the actual deal itself, and out in the media, it is points against.

Port is looking at pick 13 and saying take a run and jump because of the Saad deal. Austin has nothing to fight back with and it is of his own making.

Austin not fighting hard enough vs the Dodo bird costs us now. Austin cant now say its not about All australian it is about years of footy left. A ten year draftee vs 3-4 years of service. He cant say that because he already bent over for Saad.

Port are after 2 firsts or any early first +: which is apparently too rich for us. We paid one for Saad.

We dont look like fools, we've stated our walk away price for him which hurt their feelings. Given their stance was that they were happy to hold onto him if no suitable deal could be arranged - their petulance is obviously telling on themselves but to those with obvious agendas, we're getting played.. somehow.

Austin's counterpoint, is "nah, im good" which is what he's done thus far. He's not obligated to recruit Houston..

Haydoss 10:8 AFAIK.

 

[JustOneTime]

Port are after 2 firsts or any early first +: which is apparently too rich for us. We paid one for Saad.

We dont look like fools, we've stated our walk away price for him which hurt their feelings. Given their stance was that they were happy to hold onto him if no suitable deal could be arranged - their petulance is obviously telling on themselves but to those with obvious agendas, we're getting played.. somehow.

Austin's counterpoint, is "nah, im good" which is what he's done thus far. He's not obligated to recruit Houston..

Haydoss 10:8 AFAIK.

A lot to unpack. Two firsts is their starting point. And prob based on the proposed Melb deal. Their starting point won't put us off trying something as it shouldn't.

Carlton's attempt at gaining GC's first rounder despite the posturing is for houston with a backup plan for the draft if all goes wrong. Austin is covering himself. But to help I will say IMO if that helps. It doesn't make sense to get in an 8 way bidding war for a draft pick that that kills future multiple picks (it will take overpayment). Carlton couldn't win an argument of not an expectation of top 6 next year meaning a lower pick swap for GC unless we coughed up more. All stupid unless the goal of the pick is Houston. IMO.

Any dealings with port in chats over Houston will reference the Saad deal (IMO) plus the impact of the longer contract period for Houston. Austin has no foot to stand on trying to lessen the value of Houston unlike Pies. Austin will just have to be stubborn and stupid and tell port stupidly he overpaid for Saad or alternatively overpay again.

No 27 year old is worth two first rounders due to the years left. Imagine it, 3-5 years vs 20 years if he gives two first rounders. Let's see how stupid or good our club is. Pick 13 is the correct value. Saad for 8 was an overpayment. Port gain 9-12 years, while we gain Houston for less than half that time.

 

[Kenny Hunter09]

They've basically got a truckload of money and have collated the best evidenced based research to find what works best on common sporting injuries. The best European football clubs seem to be sending there recurring injuries there. There is a 30 min video on their 6 stage hamstring protocol if you're interested.

Aspetar - Aspetar Hamstring Protocol

www.aspetar.com

Cheers - google is a friend. I did end up taking a brief look at this last night

 

[Campoeasy]

So George and Nicky N both finish in the top 5 of our B&F..... for the combined princely sum of a 4th round pick.

Swans know how to instil professionalism to their players from day 1 of arriving......so why wouldn't we be interested in Jacob Konstanty? He hasn't been able to break into their best 22, but we know exactly the type of player we're getting....

10 touches and a goal a game in the twos, doesn't do enough. Have plenty of those already. There's a reason he hasn't played at Sydney

 

[Campoeasy]

I don't think that all of the other contenders are necessarily doing much to improve their lists this offseason.

Hawthorn yes ... Battle and Barass is big.

Brisbane no ... just the academy players in the draft. They have one hyuk size hole to fill in the mean time.

GWS no ... losing a few players.

Geelong, yes but ... Smith for a song because of his off field stuff and his year off injured. Unfortunately, we can not compete with their attractiveness. The but is another year older for Dangerfield, Duncan, Blicavs, Cameron etc. If they get Oliver, then that's a resounding yes however.

Dogs no ... losing some experienced depth.

Collingwood yes ... Perryman as a FA.

Port no ... potentially losing Houston and Lord, but gaining Lukosius. That's a net negative.

Sydney no ... going to be a quiet time in the harbour city.

Fremantle yes ... getting Shai Bolton.

I feel like only Hawthorn and potentially Geelong have made giant strides here. I agree that if Carlton don't land Houston, then we are a 'no' as well. It will all come down to this trade, unless we have something else in the works. 2 first rounders for Houston though, I think we lose that trade.

Brisbane no, they just won a premiership and get the number one pick in the draft for peanuts

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Brisbane no, they just won a premiership and get the number one pick in the draft for peanuts

He's not going to improve them much in year one, certainly not enough to make up for what they lose with Daniher. We're talking about 2025 improvement.

I know the academy system is a rort though.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Do people really think that the Pies adding to slightly above average players in Schultz and Perryman for a 1st and 2nd (Schultz) and around $900k per year (Perryman) us going to do anything for them other than hurt them down the track in teens of what they missed on this year and their salary cap?

People can't genuinely believe that it is "brave" recruiting or that they are going "all in" can they?

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Membry

Oh ok... thanks.

We should definitely pick him up for nothing.

The guy always ripped us a new one in most games...great back up forward...

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[TrueQldBlue]

I

tom morris would be better in a gossip mag he is pretty bad

He reaches that's for sure

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