Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVII - A return to normalcy

[BigFrizz36]

Cumberland is the definition of a cream on top player and our team is the definition of a good cake with no cream.

The production/performances of players like him were always going to drop at the same rate as the quality of the team around him. It happens to every decent team that falls into a rebuild. As for him being dropped multiple times, when you're in the trenches of a rebuild, you simply can't carry players like him while preaching to everyone else that they have to do the team things. It makes perfect sense to me that he was pushed out of Richmond under those circumstances and I don't see it as a red flag.

I think a player with his athletic profile and goal sense is exactly what our forward line has been crying out for.

He has zero football nous. Absolutely zero. Got away with just haring back towards goal early on but once defenders woke up to that his scoring options just dried up. Averaged less than 7 touches a game this year. Surely you wouldn't think of giving him a game before Moir or Kemp next year.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

He has zero football nous. Absolutely zero. Got away with just haring back towards goal early on but once defenders woke up to that his scoring options just dried up. Averaged less than 7 touches a game this year. Surely you wouldn't think of giving him a game before Moir or Kemp next year.

Are we meant to believe Motlop and Kemp are certainties in the best 23 next year? I certainly wouldn't have either as locks at this stage

 

[BigFrizz36]

Agree.


Interesting his draft profile strengths and combine results are consistent with his video highlights. No problem kicking from 50 out, loves to tackle. At 23 he might turn out to better than Durdin and Motlop, and definitely an excellent replacement for Fantasia.

STRENGTHS:
Agility
Speed
Footy smarts
Tackling/Aggression
Inside/outside mix

IMPROVEMENTS:
Accumulation
Kicking consistency

Cumberland’s National Draft Combine performance has propelled his value once again, finishing fifth in the 20m sprint (2.931 seconds) and eighth in the agility test (8.208 seconds). His speed shows on-field too as he breaks the lines on the outside and takes on his opponents at will. The agility aspect is more obvious in-close as Cumberland combines his power with being fleet of foot to bustle through congestion. Together, these elements make up much of the Maroochydore junior’s aggressive style of play, which is evident both with and without the ball. His willingness to take the game on and use his penetrating kick going forward is one aspect, while his bullocking style around the stoppages going both ways is the other. Cumberland’s average of almost five tackles per national carnival game is right up there, as is his ability to score in almost every outing and it gives him that desirable mix of inside and outside play.

This draft profile is from five years ago. The purpose was to give a summary as to what kid was like when he was 17. He will be 24 at the start of next season. I suspect that it would be more prudent to judge him on his body of work in the AFL rather than what he was projected to be 5 years ago. I'm sure that Paddy Dow & LOB' s draft profiles were similarly effusive back in the day.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Are we meant to believe Motlop and Kemp are certainties in the best 23 next year? I certainly wouldn't have either as locks at this stage

I would see our starting forwards along the lines of

Fogarty, McKay, Cottrell
Williams, Curnow. Moir (assuming he gains tank)


Then one on the bench from Motlop, Kemp,

Back ups Fantasia, C. Durdin, Lemmy, McMahon (?) Silvagni (if not in defence)

Query Pick 3 for example if Smith could play small forward straight away.

Apologies if I have missed any.

Edit - was always going to miss one. Elijah Hollands - I expect him to improve from last year, and was more than happy with his first season with us. Walk up start on a flank + playing midfield minutes.

 

[GoBlues!]

In terms of pick three, I will be happy with any one of Draper, Lalor, O'Sullivan and Smith. Each have their pros and cons and are rated amongst the best midfield types. Strong chance that whoever we take will be able to play early on and ultimately be a solid to good player.

The fact that we don't know which way the club is leaning is a good thing.

A little bit out of our hands.

A lot depends on what Richmond and/or North end up doing with picks 1 and 2, and what midfielders are there at our pick.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I would see our starting forwards along the lines of

Fogarty, McKay, Cottrell
Williams, Curnow. Moir (assuming he gains tank)


Then one on the bench from Motlop, Kemp,

Back ups Fantasia, C. Durdin, Lemmy, McMahon (?) Silvagni (if not in defence)

Query Pick 3 for example if Smith could play small forward straight away.

Apologies if I have missed any.

Edit - was always going to miss one. Elijah Hollands - I expect him to improve from last year, and was more than happy with his first season with us. Walk up start on a flank + playing midfield minutes.

Yeah but what I'm saying is it's not like Cumberland is no chance of breaking into the best 23 if we picked him up right? The bar to break into that fwd line as a small as it currently stands is about as low as there is in the league.

For a 1 year deal on pennies I think it's a good move, he's proven he can play at the level when he's in form.

For what reasons he's fallen out of favor and all the rest of it is another question entirely but that's for the clubs to know not us.

 

[Tjblues]

Agree.


Interesting his draft profile strengths and combine results are consistent with his video highlights. No problem kicking from 50 out, loves to tackle. At 23 he might turn out to better than Durdin and Motlop, and definitely an excellent replacement for Fantasia.

STRENGTHS:
Agility
Speed
Footy smarts
Tackling/Aggression
Inside/outside mix

IMPROVEMENTS:
Accumulation
Kicking consistency

Cumberland’s National Draft Combine performance has propelled his value once again, finishing fifth in the 20m sprint (2.931 seconds) and eighth in the agility test (8.208 seconds). His speed shows on-field too as he breaks the lines on the outside and takes on his opponents at will. The agility aspect is more obvious in-close as Cumberland combines his power with being fleet of foot to bustle through congestion. Together, these elements make up much of the Maroochydore junior’s aggressive style of play, which is evident both with and without the ball. His willingness to take the game on and use his penetrating kick going forward is one aspect, while his bullocking style around the stoppages going both ways is the other. Cumberland’s average of almost five tackles per national carnival game is right up there, as is his ability to score in almost every outing and it gives him that desirable mix of inside and outside play.

Surely once a player has had multiple years of AFL exposure we focus on that more than their draft profile?

He averages 2.1 tackles per game for his career, last year in his 7 games he made 13 tackles.

It’s a very similar average to all our current small forwards, even Moir averaged 1.5 a game and he only played 2 quarters for the year.

I’d be flat if he got game time over Moir

 

[bmaurizio]

Cumberland can't possibly do any worst than Fantasia whom was contracted for 2 years,and has produced zilch?

 

[passmark]

Cumberland can't possibly do any worst than Fantasia whom was contracted for 2 years, whom has done zilch?

You underestimate our ability to find duds.

 

[GoBlues!]

This draft profile is from five years ago. The purpose was to give a summary as to what kid was like when he was 17. He will be 24 at the start of next season. I suspect that it would be more prudent to judge him on his body of work in the AFL rather than what he was projected to be 5 years ago. I'm sure that Paddy Dow & LOB' s draft profiles were similarly effusive back in the day.

Agree BigFrizz.

Looking at Motlop, Corey Durdin and Fantasia’s recent body of AFL work it’s nothing to really write home about either. Motlop/Durdin/Fogarty/Fantasia all have deficiencies in their game and neither can be considered a complete forward.

Cumberland has some traits that these forwards don’t, a beautiful long kick and knows where the goals are.

As a low cost dfa Cumberland might be worth a look at. He’s only one year older than Durdin and if he works out could be a replacement and upgrade on Fantasia next year.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

How about Isaiah Winder?
Delisted by WCE last year and went back to the wafl and won the B&f for South Fremantle.
Average 25+ disposal & 4 tackles per game.
WCE/Freo apparently having another look

Isiah Winder | WAFL

wafl.com.au

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Yeah but what I'm saying is it's not like Cumberland is no chance of breaking into the best 23 if we picked him up right? The bar to break into that fwd line as a small as it currently stands is about as low as there is in the league.

For a 1 year deal on pennies I think it's a good move, he's proven he can play at the level when he's in form.

For what reasons he's fallen out of favor and all the rest of it is another question entirely but that's for the clubs to know not us.

I'd rather take Will White from our VFL than Cumberland. The kid has a real hunger for the game, not sure if Cumbo has...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'd rather take Will White from our VFL than Cumberland. The kid has a real hunger for the game, not sure if Cumbo has...

I really like WW. Can play a range of roles too

 

[bradfisher14]

He has zero football nous. Absolutely zero. Got away with just haring back towards goal early on but once defenders woke up to that his scoring options just dried up. Averaged less than 7 touches a game this year. Surely you wouldn't think of giving him a game before Moir or Kemp next year.

First of all, if it's so easy to run back towards goal, why can't our current group of small forwards do it on a regular basis?

Secondly, averaging 7 touches a game as a small forward in the worst team in the AFL is actually a pretty decent effort if you think about it.

Thirdly, I wouldn't be guaranteeing games next year for any of our forwards outside of Charlie/Harry/Elijah. Cumberland would be coming in to compete for a spot, not to be a certain starter. Agree that we need to get games in to Moir and Kemp, but they need to be earning them. Adding Cumberland (or another small forward with ability) would make that competition for spots more fierce and that is great for the team overall.

 

[BigFrizz36]

First of all, if it's so easy to run back towards goal, why can't our current group of small forwards do it on a regular basis?

Secondly, averaging 7 touches a game as a small forward in the worst team in the AFL is actually a pretty decent effort if you think about it.

Thirdly, I wouldn't be guaranteeing games next year for any of our forwards outside of Charlie/Harry/Elijah. Cumberland would be coming in to compete for a spot, not to be a certain starter. Agree that we need to get games in to Moir and Kemp, but they need to be earning them. Adding Cumberland (or another small forward with ability) would make that competition for spots more fierce and that is great for the team overall.

First of all, he's not a traditional small forward, he's more a hybrid 3rd forward. Running back to goal nearly every time is easily defendable once a defender works out that you are likely do it 95% of the time. He's not a "pack hitter" like Charlie Cameron he's a "kick it to me as I run back toward goal type".

Would be continually getting in the way of Harry and Charlie looking for cheapies.

Once again though Mitch Cleary is allegedly reporting that he's off to the eagles.

 

[El Topo]

I'd rather take Will White from our VFL than Cumberland. The kid has a real hunger for the game, not sure if Cumbo has...

Hear hear, if nothing else we know that the VFL scrappers have that dog in them

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

First of all, he's not a traditional small forward, he's more a hybrid 3rd forward. Running back to goal nearly every time is easily defendable once a defender works out that you are likely do it 95% of the time. He's not a "pack hitter" like Charlie Cameron he's a "kick it to me as I run back toward goal type".

Would be continually getting in the way of Harry and Charlie looking for cheapies.

Once again though Mitch Cleary is allegedly reporting that he's off to the eagles.

Where's it been reported about the Eagles interest? I would have thought that would be the last place he should be looking at. Owies and Cripps already there and their ball movement is an absolute disaster

 

[BlueTongue]

Are we meant to believe Motlop and Kemp are certainties in the best 23 next year? I certainly wouldn't have either as locks at this stage

Kemp would be, all day, every day.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Kemp would be, all day, every day.

I don't think there's any certainty over Kemps spot in the team. We don't even know what position he'll be playing next year

 

[BigFrizz36]

Where's it been reported about the Eagles interest? I would have thought that would be the last place he should be looking at. Owies and Cripps already there and their ball movement is an absolute disaster

It was on the Tigers board in his thread yesterday. You don't really think that there is a queue for a player delisted from the bottom team do you?

Edit Post 5297 on the Tigers board Noah Cumberland thread.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

It was on the Tigers board in his thread yesterday. You don't really think that there is a queue for a player delisted from the bottom team do you?

Wouldn't be the first time a player has gone from a crap team to a good team and improved. Take a look at Elijah Hollands

 

[BigFrizz36]

Wouldn't be the first time a player has gone from a crap team to a good team and improved. Take a look at Elijah Hollands

Wouldn't be the first time that a player that many thought had ability went to a new team and those that got rid of him were proven correct. Take a look at SPS, Paddy Dow, Will Setterfield.

Elijah Hollands wasn't a DFA and hadn’t settled/was played out of position. We traded for him and got a big discount due to his indiscretion.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Wouldn't be the first time that a player that many thought had ability went to a new team and those that got rid of him were proven correct. Take a look at SPS, Paddy Dow, Will Setterfield.

Elijah Hollands wasn't a DFA and hadn’t settled/was played out of position. We traded for him and got a big discount due to his indiscretion.

Correct, but we don't know what the case is with the bloke. Could find his old form again, could remain shite.

Only time will tell

 

[BlackGoanna]

Correct, but we don't know what the case is with the bloke. Could find his old form again, could remain shite.

Only time will tell

Why waste a list spot to find out. Exposed form over the last 2 years is the best indication


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Why waste a list spot to find out. Exposed form over the last 2 years is the best indication


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Then we should delist Durdin and Motlop while we're at it?