Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[swuzzlebubble]

I wonder what AR thought about the training loads?

 

[Juice030103]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

What a pack of softies they are really


all sleep with the light on

 

[Lukeblueboy]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

Info much appreciated Andy

 

[Coops93]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

Some of this does ring true.

I've felt for about a month or so I think our guys were hanging out for that pre-finals bye, a lot just look cooked. Now pre finals bye may not matter.

Not sure about the selfish part, I don't think we have many selfish guys. Typically up forward, it anything I want more selfishness at least ball in hand. Too many want to dish it off inside 50 and Charlie's paralysed moment was an example of it, a guy who is normally selfish, in the best way, wide open inside 50 looks to pass instead.

Maybe the back half have gotten selfish in how they've defended, though. Way too many liberties being taken and to be frank I don't think Weiters is a natural leader down there.

 

[Coops93]

I wonder what AR thought about the training loads?

Making reference to his statements recently?

 

[Thrawn]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

Cocky? Someone needs to remind them they haven't achieved anything yet.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Info much appreciated Andy

Thanks - in a way probably just confirms for the me the optics that the side has hit a wall.

The main takeaway for me is that the players still seem to be behind Vossy which is a good thing - he doesn't appear to have lost them (based on this small sample size).

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Cocky? Someone needs to remind them they haven't achieved anything yet.

Is that you Mark Robinson ?

 

[Thrawn]

Is that you Mark Robinson ?

I might as well down a few beers after Sunday!

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Some of this does ring true.

I've felt for about a month or so I think our guys were hanging out for that pre-finals bye, a lot just look cooked. Now pre finals bye may not matter.

Not sure about the selfish part, I don't think we have many selfish guys. Typically up forward, it anything I want more selfishness at least ball in hand. Too many want to dish it off inside 50 and Charlie's paralysed moment was an example of it, a guy who is normally selfish, in the best way, wide open inside 50 looks to pass instead.

Maybe the back half have gotten selfish in how they've defended, though. Way too many liberties being taken and to be frank I don't think Weiters is a natural leader down there.

I agree it would be interesting to know what Vossy is defining as selfish. I don't have any more information.

Outwardly it would seem unfair to label Crippa selfish given the way he attacks a game but when they use like synergy, connection etc. selfish means something like Crippa running to a contest to get another kick rather than dropping back and defending (and I'm only speculating).

 

[swuzzlebubble]

what Vossy is defining as selfish.

Could just be individual incidents of shooting at goal instead of spotting up which virtually the whole team has done at some point. Also calling for the ball running past when running straight into a tackle?

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I wonder what AR thought about the training loads?

Would Jack have been selecting injured and underdone players at AFL level?

 

[Blue Reaper]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

Thanks AndyL.

Really disappointing if the bolded is true.

Imagine having a chance at your dream job, being weeks away from potential finals glory and just wanting the season to end. Harden up.

 

[Blue since 72]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

If accurate I'd be curious to hear from Voss as to the end game behind heavier training loads in season given our heavily geared crash and bash game style.

Makes little sense from the outside and even more so if your mid rotation options on game day are down due to injuries.

EDIT:

I'd hazard a guess that the running component for players nowadays would be a fair bit higher than back in Voss's day too.

 

[Prem17]

Injuries aside, if the mindset has been about a pre-finals bye for a period of time then it casts a very dark shadow over the squad's mental toughness and application.
You'd really have to question the mental ability to win a premiership.

 

[gbatman]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

You learn a lot playing footy, some things you don't learn until the end if your career.

A few things I could take away. Being fresh is better than being fit but injured and low on energy. Don't train within two days of a game, that blows out to 3 once you're in your 30s. If you're sore or injured, rest. Have a massive preseason, get as fit as possible, the main season is not for improving fitness, it's for maintaining it. Maybe AFL players are different, but can't be that different.

We look exactly like you have described. We look like we are getting flogged on the track between games. I've been thinking it for a long time.

Definitely need to review training practices.

Can't play with good energy if you spend it all on the track and my theory with soft tissue injuries is that the damage is already done, you just dont realise until it goes. Can wasily be because of heavy training loads.

Players should be encouraged to do their hard running during the game. Mid week is for maintaining fitness, skills and recovery.

It does make me wonder whether we are over training. It makes me wonder if Russell has left because he was against it and Voss would t listen or whether Russell was driving this (doubt it).

I think coaching is an issue with us.

The amount of soft tissue injuries are not coincidence or because players are injury prone.

I still have a lot of doubts over Voss. I'm not his biggest fan. But I also know coaching AFL teams are a team effort and his supporting coaches are a part of this as well.

I think Voss will need good results next season or we might get itchy feet. We are under a lot of pressure to retain a coach and prove we aren't a career ending club.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

Not such a bad week to have a bunch coming in looking to prove themselves

 

[Prem17]

You learn a lot playing footy, some things you don't learn until the end if your career.

A few things I could take away. Being fresh is better than being fit but injured and low on energy. Don't train within two days of a game, that blows out to 3 once you're in your 30s. If you're sore or injured, rest. Have a massive preseason, get as fit as possible, the main season is not for improving fitness, it's for maintaining it. Maybe AFL players are different, but can't be that different.

We look exactly like you have described. We look like we are getting flogged on the track between games. I've been thinking it for a long time.

Definitely need to review training practices.

Can't play with good energy if you spend it all on the track and my theory with soft tissue injuries is that the damage is already done, you just dont realise until it goes. Can wasily be because of heavy training loads.

Players should be encouraged to do their hard running during the game. Mid week is for maintaining fitness, skills and recovery.

It does make me wonder whether we are over training. It makes me wonder if Russell has left because he was against it and Voss would t listen or whether Russell was driving this (doubt it).

I think coaching is an issue with us.

The amount of soft tissue injuries are not coincidence or because players are injury prone.

I still have a lot of doubts over Voss. I'm not his biggest fan. But I also know coaching AFL teams are a team effort and his supporting coaches are a part of this as well.

I think Voss will need good results next season or we might get itchy feet. We are under a lot of pressure to retain a coach and prove we aren't a career ending club.

Bit of a clue re '25 in that Hansen has refused to take part in the WCE selection process.
He's a past premiership player, he knows the city and the lifestyle, ie its not going to be a difficult transition for him, he's a leading contender (or was) and yet he refused the invitation.

As soon as I saw that he'd declined the offer, my first thought was that he knows he'll be next up for Carlton's Senior position.
At the very least he'll be the caretaker if we're not in a good position by the '25 mid year bye.

 

[Coops93]

I agree it would be interesting to know what Vossy is defining as selfish. I don't have any more information.

Outwardly it would seem unfair to label Crippa selfish given the way he attacks a game but when they use like synergy, connection etc. selfish means something like Crippa running to a contest to get another kick rather than dropping back and defending (and I'm only speculating).

The Cripps mention too didn't sit right. Maybe he is trying to do too much and it's coming across as selfish, but bloody hell the rest of his midfield mates have been listless for weeks. If he isn't fighting to get an extra kick chances are the opposition are walking out of the contest.

Maybe it sets a bad example or he's using a method of criticising the big dog to show everyone else no one is safe from critique, but I'd be focusing more on those not getting a kick than the guy trying too hard to make up for it.

 

[bradfisher14]

It does make me wonder whether we are over training. It makes me wonder if Russell has left because he was against it and Voss would t listen or whether Russell was driving this (doubt it).

I don't think Voss would be overruling High Performance decisions. If we are overtraining, it is because of the High Performance department. Russell has been on record stating that he is in favour of heavy training even at the expense of some injuries. Outside looking in, that strategy has backfired on him spectacularly this season.

 

[JJBagger]

You learn a lot playing footy, some things you don't learn until the end if your career.

A few things I could take away. Being fresh is better than being fit but injured and low on energy. Don't train within two days of a game, that blows out to 3 once you're in your 30s. If you're sore or injured, rest. Have a massive preseason, get as fit as possible, the main season is not for improving fitness, it's for maintaining it. Maybe AFL players are different, but can't be that different.

We look exactly like you have described. We look like we are getting flogged on the track between games. I've been thinking it for a long time.

Definitely need to review training practices.

Can't play with good energy if you spend it all on the track and my theory with soft tissue injuries is that the damage is already done, you just dont realise until it goes. Can wasily be because of heavy training loads.

Players should be encouraged to do their hard running during the game. Mid week is for maintaining fitness, skills and recovery.

It does make me wonder whether we are over training. It makes me wonder if Russell has left because he was against it and Voss would t listen or whether Russell was driving this (doubt it).

I think coaching is an issue with us.

The amount of soft tissue injuries are not coincidence or because players are injury prone.

I still have a lot of doubts over Voss. I'm not his biggest fan. But I also know coaching AFL teams are a team effort and his supporting coaches are a part of this as well.

I think Voss will need good results next season or we might get itchy feet. We are under a lot of pressure to retain a coach and prove we aren't a career ending club.

Having spoken to a few in and around the club, the issues usually seem to stem back to the players. Players not working or training hard or smart enough, lazy attitudes, selfish decision making on the field, etc.

The coach is the easy scapegoat, but the fact that this same group has had similar issues with multiple coaches is what is ringing alarm bells for me. Coaching I’m sure has something to do with it, but the players are the ones who ultimately must execute. And if they aren’t putting themselves in the best place to do that, then there’s not much a coach can do

 

[CarmenSandiego]

They're just cooked.

I played footy at a reasonable level & for a 2 year period we had a crazy fitness guy. Pre-season was long and brutal, then during the week we'd get flogged a bit despite a game that weekend.

By the final quarter of the year everyone had had enough. Mentally, physically everyone was just tired and the sentiment was just negative around the whole joint, pretty sure we ended up bombing out of finals pretty quick.

So, I get why they could be feeling that way, if they think Voss is too hard on them then that's pretty sooky though.

 

[Thrawn]

They're just cooked.

I played footy at a reasonable level & for a 2 year period we had a crazy fitness guy. Pre-season was long and brutal, then during the week we'd get flogged a bit despite a game that weekend.

By the final quarter of the year everyone had had enough. Mentally, physically everyone was just tired and the sentiment was just negative around the whole joint, pretty sure we ended up bombing out of finals pretty quick.

So, I get why they could be feeling that way, if they think Voss is too hard on them then that's pretty sooky though.

Difference is that you're not a top tier athlete, hard work for success is demanding and expected. If they can't handle it, then they picked the wrong sport.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

Good!

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Having spoken to a few in and around the club, the issues usually seem to stem back to the players. Players not working or training hard or smart enough, lazy attitudes, selfish decision making on the field, etc.

The coach is the easy scapegoat, but the fact that this same group has had similar issues with multiple coaches is what is ringing alarm bells for me. Coaching I’m sure has something to do with it, but the players are the ones who ultimately must execute. And if they aren’t putting themselves in the best place to do that, then there’s not much a coach can do

probably depends who you talk to!