Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[CarmenSandiego]

Difference is that you're not a top tier athlete, hard work for success is demanding and expected. If they can't handle it, then they picked the wrong sport.

Sure, but the body has its limits. If they feel like they're getting flogged too much and the body can't handle it, they're probably right.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I don't think Voss would be overruling High Performance decisions. If we are overtraining, it is because of the High Performance department. Russell has been on record stating that he is in favour of heavy training even at the expense of some injuries. Outside looking in, that strategy has backfired on him spectacularly this season.

Because of the injuries we haven’t been able to rest up players, said it earlier in the season when there was carnage. Russell and his crew have completely butchered multiple seasons now.
In an ideal world you would be managing your guns in the back half of the season, I’d go as far to say as they were starting to do that by leaving out Hewitt, making Kennedy the sub etc but my point is you need to be in a ladder position to do so.
The GWS and Dogs games were critical, we win those two and we’d have been able to really start to manage the team. But we didn’t, and the injuries we have now are a big reason of not being able to manage because we’ve been chasing a ladder position ever since.


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[Blue_Fusion]

Cripps selfish.. give the guy a break! Completely opposite that.

As good as he's been, he has also burnt team mates/tried to do too much at times as well.

My concern would be if Voss has been so hard on them regarding this... why are they still being selfish?

 

[T2B_]

If the players feel the training loads are too much and brutal but are still generally happy with Voss, suggests to me that Russell was the driver of it.

I don't doubt Voss can be a tough taskmaster too, but he's probably just expecting basic metrics to be met and the players are too cooked to do them.

 

[Revenant1965]

It all gets a bit to hard for this group sometimes.

Are you talking about here on BF...?

 

[Jatz]

As good as he's been, he has also burnt team mates/tried to do too much at times as well.

My concern would be if Voss has been so hard on them regarding this... why are they still being selfish?

It's a very fine line this. Charlie is often guilty of it as well.

Ultimately they're the superstars in our team and I'd back them more often than not. Especially when we're not going well, he must feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to right the ship.

 

[Opium]

They're just cooked.

I played footy at a reasonable level & for a 2 year period we had a crazy fitness guy. Pre-season was long and brutal, then during the week we'd get flogged a bit despite a game that weekend.

By the final quarter of the year everyone had had enough. Mentally, physically everyone was just tired and the sentiment was just negative around the whole joint, pretty sure we ended up bombing out of finals pretty quick.

So, I get why they could be feeling that way, if they think Voss is too hard on them then that's pretty sooky though.

We trained and were pushed too hard in the pre season. 3 hour training blocks and it's pretty clear the players have hit the wall. Our season started in March and it's clear now we're running on empty physically and mentally.
Coincidentally our best performance of the season came after our round 14 bye against the Cats when the players all were given time off during the bye.

 

[Psychochook]

Zero chance pre-season training is a factor in August.

 

[flankerfromsrilanka]

FWIW - some second hand information from a couple of players:

- Think they've been training too hard during the week. Voss has been very hard on the group and they are just exhausted.

- Vossy gave a few of the senior players a spray for being selfish (inc. Crippa).

- Players did get a bit cocky after the mid-season wins.

- Players still like Voss but he is very very tough in striving to win.

- Bit of a feeling some just want the season to end so I don't hold out a lot of hope for the last two games.

Where there is smoke there is fire and all that but I was told a similar thing before the Hawks game. Won’t name names but friend lives near current player so friend asked current player what was going on and sentiment was that playing group was exhausted..”cooked” to be exact. No reference to training too hard but more along the lines of the inability to rest because of the amount of injuries we had. Played out exactly like we were cooked on Sunday which is a little depressing. Ironically player who friend knows may or may not have been injured Sunday

Because of the injuries we haven’t been able to rest up players, said it earlier in the season when there was carnage. Russell and his crew have completely butchered multiple seasons now.
In an ideal world you would be managing your guns in the back half of the season, I’d go as far to say as they were starting to do that by leaving out Hewitt, making Kennedy the sub etc but my point is you need to be in a ladder position to do so.
The GWS and Dogs games were critical, we win those two and we’d have been able to really start to manage the team. But we didn’t, and the injuries we have now are a big reason of not being able to manage because we’ve been chasing a ladder position ever since.


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you could be onto something

 

[Sam The Doc]

It's a very fine line this. Charlie is often guilty of it as well.

Ultimately they're the superstars in our team and I'd back them more often than not. Especially when we're not going well, he must feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to right the ship.

I can't get his 4th quarter against Pies out of my head. Selfish or not ...my god he has my approval...

 

[Opium]

Where there is smoke there is fire and all that but I was told a similar thing before the Hawks game. Won’t name names but friend lives near current player so friend asked current player what was going on and sentiment was that playing group was exhausted..”cooked” to be exact. No reference to training too hard but more along the lines of the inability to rest because of the amount of injuries we had. Played out exactly like we were cooked on Sunday which is a little depressing. Ironically player who friend knows may or may not have been injured Sunday

you could be onto something

Russell has been there 6 years I can't remember one season we haven't been ravaged by injuries. I'm surprised it took this long to move him on tbh.

 

[Gavstar]

Could just be individual incidents of shooting at goal instead of spotting up which virtually the whole team has done at some point. Also calling for the ball running past when running straight into a tackle?

Mate and I were laughing during the Port game how often Cripps refused to let the handball go to a clear team mate choosing to take tackle first. Taking on the tackler should be the last choice not the first. Is it selfishness or lack of trust though?

 

[TheReal99prelim]

probably depends who you talk to!

Do tell 4FI5Ys

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It's a very fine line this. Charlie is often guilty of it as well.

Ultimately they're the superstars in our team and I'd back them more often than not. Especially when we're not going well, he must feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to right the ship.

They pretty much all are guilty of it... Charlie, Walsh, Cripps, Elijah, you name him.

This isn't about not backing them in... it's about them not being disciplined to play team footy and Voss is right to call them out on it no matter who they are.

 

[Magruder]

Where there is smoke there is fire and all that but I was told a similar thing before the Hawks game. Won’t name names but friend lives near current player so friend asked current player what was going on and sentiment was that playing group was exhausted..”cooked” to be exact. No reference to training too hard but more along the lines of the inability to rest because of the amount of injuries we had. Played out exactly like we were cooked on Sunday which is a little depressing. Ironically player who friend knows may or may not have been injured Sunday

you could be onto something

only narrows it down a little really

 

[Rambis]

It has been a big stint since the GC game last year. Shortened break. Big expectations. A draw that gave us a difficult game almost every week for the first half of the season. Injuries and more injuries. Big expectations when we were 6pts clear in second.But really 12pt clear of 13th. I can see why a team could hit the wall. But still we gave away at least 4pts playing 2 rucks against the Crows and Dogs. Gov missed after the siren and we seemingly were willing to lose a couple in favour of being in a heightened condition come Sept. It just didnt work out. Tweak the list. Get some more fleet footed youth in the best 23 and open up play a bit. Then give it another crack.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Russell has been there 6 years I can't remember one season we haven't been ravaged by injuries. I'm surprised it took this long to get rid of him tbh.

Change the last sentence to Its absurd it took this long to get rid of him tbh

Probably get banned again for stating the bleeding obvious though


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[gbatman]

Having spoken to a few in and around the club, the issues usually seem to stem back to the players. Players not working or training hard or smart enough, lazy attitudes, selfish decision making on the field, etc.

The coach is the easy scapegoat, but the fact that this same group has had similar issues with multiple coaches is what is ringing alarm bells for me. Coaching I’m sure has something to do with it, but the players are the ones who ultimately must execute. And if they aren’t putting themselves in the best place to do that, then there’s not much a coach can do

Yes there is always that, and perhaps if this is the issue then we are going through a sorting out phase. I don't think standards have been real high for 20 years or more.

We most certainly have had players come to us who have improved their standards.

It's hard to know. Could be a combination of both things really.

 

[GT619]

Cocky? Someone needs to remind them they haven't achieved anything yet.

imagine what parkin would've said to them in his prime

 

[myblueroan]

Some of this does ring true.

I've felt for about a month or so I think our guys were hanging out for that pre-finals bye, a lot just look cooked. Now pre finals bye may not matter.

Not sure about the selfish part, I don't think we have many selfish guys. Typically up forward, it anything I want more selfishness at least ball in hand. Too many want to dish it off inside 50 and Charlie's paralysed moment was an example of it, a guy who is normally selfish, in the best way, wide open inside 50 looks to pass instead.

Maybe the back half have gotten selfish in how they've defended, though. Way too many liberties being taken and to be frank I don't think Weiters is a natural leader down there.

Maybe more frustration at the ever rotating list changes, and how that impacts their ability to bring their best. We really need a couple more class A defenders. Or an A and a B plus. It would be really hard. So much pressure and no continuity for them.

 

[Accidental genius]

It makes sense that having so many players unavailable due to them being constantly injured has meant more load that the rest have to carry.

On top of that we haven't been promoting enough vfl players to help distribute the load a bit more widely.

I still see it as a problem the club should have fixed maybe 2 years ago.

We've been flogging a dead horse trying to fix the likes of Marchy cunners and martin - 3 best 22 players.

Clubs decision making has been poor in some respects.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Mate and I were laughing during the Port game how often Cripps refused to let the handball go to a clear team mate choosing to take tackle first. Taking on the tackler should be the last choice not the first. Is it selfishness or lack of trust though?

It’s because there’s a league wide boycott of using the shepherd to get your teammate into space. Taking the tackle then giving off takes out an oppo player, but it also takes out an option in the offensive chain.
It’s not just us, it’s all teams…it’s mind boggling, and surely has to be coached into them to do this


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[BringFevBack2021]

Someone on the main board has gone with McGrath as trade bait

That’s the exact type we need, quick and good by foot

Wonder what he’d cost, has fallen out of favour largely, seem to play via Martin instead

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Someone on the main board has gone with McGrath as trade bait

That’s the exact type we need, quick and good by foot

Wonder what he’d cost, has fallen out of favour largely, seem to play via Martin instead

Are either of these things true? I thought he was a plodder and average by foot?

IMO, No one (capable of being got) at Essendon is going to improve the Carlton list.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Someone on the main board has gone with McGrath as trade bait

That’s the exact type we need, quick and good by foot

Wonder what he’d cost, has fallen out of favour largely, seem to play via Martin instead

I don't think this rings true at all, he's ok by foot and I wouldn't say he's quick. Bog average footballer IMO, good at a lot of things but not great at any one thing, provides no point of difference.