Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)

[RUNVS]

I really need to start a thread asking if Ted Richards

Ted Richards

Age

41

Ht

193cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

153.4

2star

No current season stats available

D

5.8

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.8

3star

is the greatest player of all time, and then completely ignore everyone else telling me I am wrong and keep the thread going for years.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

without a doubt, Tom Stewart has to be 20% better than Dusty, I mean he has 20% more AA jumpers, so it is what it is

Same as Tom Hawkins he has 20% more as well 5 vs 4

So Tom Hawkins and Tom Stewart are clearly better than Dusty, 20% better .

I take it you don't have a Tom Stewart poster on your wall. It looks like Tomcats trigger you a little.

 

[Fadge]

I take it you don't have a Tom Stewart poster on your wall. It looks like Tomcats trigger you a little.

Nor did he have a times table poster on his wall when he was a kid...

 

[Fadge]

* will you Pies fans relax. You don't want to be like this all the way to the second week of finals when you are eliminated, it is no good for your health.

Carlton out the first week, and Pies out the following week; their health is going to be not good.

Is there anything more pathetic than supporters whose teams' seasons finished in June and July prophesising about the fortunes of teams who did qualify for the pointy end?

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Is there anything more pathetic than supporters whose teams' seasons finished in June and July prophesising about the fortunes of teams who did qualify for the pointy end?

Especially when MR was thinking Richmond were going to win the flag.

 

[Fadge]

Especially when MR was thinking Richmond were going to win the flag.

Taranto and Hopper astute trades to set the club up for the next 5 years.

'The Club' being GWS.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Especially when MR was thinking Richmond were going to win the flag.

I KNEW they were going to win the flag. I just didn't know exactly when. But I won't be seeing 1 Grand Final win for my team in 64 years in my life, unlike someone else whose team last week was about 2 years older than any other AFL team so the clock is well and truly ticking on them. And you can feel the anxiety. It would be cruel if Fadge doesn't get to see his team win a 2nd Grand Final within a 65 year period.

Cruel, but bloody funny.

You can really feel the tension rising with these desperate for something to boast about Pies fans. They just need to calm. the ****. down.

 

[PhatBoy]

2022 AFL Ratings for forwards

Cameron 7th 12.57 v Dusty 23rd 10.99


2023 AFL ratings for forwards

Cameron 25th 10.72 v Dusty 5th 13.91


Average rankings across the 2 seasons 2022/23: Cameron 16th, Martin 14th

Average ratings across the 2 seasons 2022/23: Cameron 11.65, Martin 12.45


This is all while Cameron is "the best player in the game right now" and Dusty is, according to you and others on here "finished."

Maybe actually watch what is going on rather than listening to silly commentators so much.

Why should I watch? You don’t.
You just follow a rating system and expect it to kick goals.


Martin’s 2017 finals series statistics aren’t going to magically win a game in a hypothetical match next week so no, I’m not picking him in any fantasy team I name to win a sudden death match.

 

[demondavey]

Martin isn’t even in the top 15 players of all time.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Martin isn’t even in the top 15 players of all time.

Top 100

 

[Xtreme]

I really need to start a thread asking if Ted Richards is the greatest player of all time, and then completely ignore everyone else telling me I am wrong and keep the thread going for years.

Because he's the hero Bigfooty deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I KNEW they were going to win the flag. I just didn't know exactly when. But I won't be seeing 1 Grand Final win for my team in 64 years in my life, unlike someone else whose team last week was about 2 years older than any other AFL team so the clock is well and truly ticking on them. And you can feel the anxiety. It would be cruel if Fadge doesn't get to see his team win a 2nd Grand Final within a 65 year period.

Cruel, but bloody funny.

You can really feel the tension rising with these desperate for something to boast about Pies fans. They just need to calm. the *. down.

Lame.

 

[PhatBoy]

I really need to start a thread asking if Ted Richards is the greatest player of all time, and then completely ignore everyone else telling me I am wrong and keep the thread going for years.

Just find something he did that nobody else did - had ** touches in a particular square metre of the SCG during the third quarter of a match 7 years ago or something - and use that as the basis for your argument.

 

[Iceman!]

So glad you came along to point all that out. We need to be better.

Seeing you don't seem to like Norm Smith votes, maybe you can give us the list of players in history who have played in 3 Grand Finals and been outscored by the opposition TEAMS in those 3 games by a total of 8 goals or less whilst scoring over 50% of the opponents' goals.

Here, I will start the list off for you:

2017, 19, 20 Dustin Martin 10 goals(2, 4, 4) v opposition TEAMS 18 goals(8, 3, 7)

Good luck with this assignment. Remembering Dusty also had 5 goal assists, and did this while playing mainly midfield with stints forward. If you need me to leave more rows open for the list, just let me know.

Except I didn’t say I don’t rate the Norm Smith, I do. I am simply pointing out the constant shifting goal posts when it comes to Dusty among Richmond fans.

Rating him as one of the best of all time but not as high as Richmond fans MUST be because they just hate Richmond or are jealous or some other petty reason.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Getting fitted for the All Australian Captains guernsey as we speak..

Obviously didn't fit.

 

[iameviljez]

In your Premiership years in that sampleGeelong averages 5.5 AA selections. Hawthorn averages 2.5 selections in its Premiership years. Richmond averages 1.7.

Geelong are radically over-represented in AA selections from 2007 onwards even allowing for the fact they are clearly the best performed h&a team.

I think what that shows more than anything else is that Geelong's dominance should probably have netted them another flag... but for Clarko's Cluster.

A few years ago, someone put together a ladder of all clubs ranked by their best 50 game streak, their best 100 game streak, 150, 200, etc etc. This current Geelong side held literally all of the top spots bar the 300-game streak, and would probably have that now as well by virtue of the 2021 and 22 seasons.

It's not an unfair reflection of our H&A dominance.

 

[PhatBoy]

I think what that shows more than anything else is that Geelong's dominance should probably have netted them another flag... but for Clarko's Cluster.

A few years ago, someone put together a ladder of all clubs ranked by their best 50 game streak, their best 100 game streak, 150, 200, etc etc. This current Geelong side held literally all of the top spots bar the 300-game streak, and would probably have that now as well by virtue of the 2021 and 22 seasons.

It's not an unfair reflection of our H&A dominance.

Nor the way it was achieved. It hasn’t been some magical gameplan formula for most of that period.

 

[JackOutback]

Dustin Martin achieved an incredible feat that will be remembered long after he's retired. But they are three singular achievements and not achievements replicated throughout the whole of his career, which is why he won't be remembered as among the greatest to have ever played. It's like Herschelle Gibbs hitting six sixes off an over in a World Cup. Now Gibbs was a fine player and that was a memorable achievement that goes down in the record books, but he's not among the game's greats. Dustin Martin is Hereschelle Gibbs.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Dustin Martin achieved an incredible feat that will be remembered long after he's retired. But they are three singular achievements and not achievements replicated throughout the whole of his career, which is why he won't be remembered as among the greatest to have ever played. It's like Herschelle Gibbs hitting six sixes off an over in a World Cup. Now Gibbs was a fine player and that was a memorable achievement that goes down in the record books, but he's not among the game's greats. Dustin Martin is Hereschelle Gibbs.

Hershelle Gibbs smashes 6 sixes in a walkover match v Associate team Netherlands off the bowling of Daan van Bunge, who never played first class cricket.

V

Dusty kicks 8 goals less than all 66 opposition players combined across 3 Grand Finals - which are the absolute pinnacle of Australian Rules football. While playing midfield. With short stints forward. Without counting his 5 goal assists. Or his 16 contested Sherrins per GF. Which won him 3 x the highest accolade in the sport, Norman Smith Medals. And 3 x an even higher accolade, Ayres medals.

Yeah, I can see how those achievements might look on a similar level to you JOB. But what Dusty did has no parallel in cricket. Nobody has done anything similar.

But but but Darren Jarman kicked 24 goals less than the 3 opposition teams combined in his 3 Grand Finals. Fagic( Fadge logic) turns that into > Dusty.

 

[Rich01]

Dustin Martin achieved an incredible feat that will be remembered long after he's retired. But they are three singular achievements and not achievements replicated throughout the whole of his career, which is why he won't be remembered as among the greatest to have ever played. It's like Herschelle Gibbs hitting six sixes off an over in a World Cup. Now Gibbs was a fine player and that was a memorable achievement that goes down in the record books, but he's not among the game's greats. Dustin Martin is Hereschelle Gibbs.

Interesting comparison. Hitting six sixes in a random match and comparing it to Dusty’s performances is a good try, but a little off piste.

I would have thought they would have been a better comparison if Gibbs had have been one of the top batsman of his era, then proceeded to hit match winning hundreds for South Africa to claim three world cups on his back.

Gibbs for me wasn’t the one known for winning world cups by the way. My most famous memory of him was in fact the opposite.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I think what that shows more than anything else is that Geelong's dominance should probably have netted them another flag... but for Clarko's Cluster.

A few years ago, someone put together a ladder of all clubs ranked by their best 50 game streak, their best 100 game streak, 150, 200, etc etc. This current Geelong side held literally all of the top spots bar the 300-game streak, and would probably have that now as well by virtue of the 2021 and 22 seasons.

It's not an unfair reflection of our H&A dominance.

Let's maybe isolate 2017 onwards then.

Geelong v Richmond 2017- current

Geelong: 1 Premiership, 101 home and away wins. 19 AA selections. 2 captains 1 Vice-Captain. 2.7 selections per season in this period(AFL average is 1.2 per club)

Richmond: 3 Premierships, 95 home and away wins. 10 AA selections. 1 Captain no Vice-Captain.


Your team won 6 extra home and away games over a 7 year period. Geelong's 6% more home and away wins translated somehow into 90% more AA selections and 200% more leadership positions(captain or vice-captain.) All from a pool of players that was unarguably weaker than Richmond's pool of players - their respective finals records over the period tell us that as clear as day.

The only reason this disparity exists is because Geelong players are getting picked in marginal or left field calls where Richmond players are not. See Stewart selections, Blicavs, Dangerfield shoe-horned onto flanks when he has shown time and again in big games he is not a forward's arseh*le at this type of level. Stengle. And so on.

There is a serious bias at play here that severely undermines the credibility of what should be an important recognition for a player to aspire to. 1.4 selections per season, barely above AFL average. You would not even suspect from the AA selections that Richmond had achieved a triple Premiership dynasty within this 7 year period, and dominated Geelong in finals, or that the home and away record in the period between the teams was 4-4, with the overall record 7-4 Richmond's way.

 

[Danw0w]

This thread gets more ridiculous by the day. A bloke who has had 4 good seasons at most is not close to being the GOAT. The desperation by Tigers fans is getting rather sad to be honest.

Lol check his stats. He's had nothing but good seasons from day dot.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Dusty was so good in those all time finals series he played that the corrupt AFL has even altered the Ayres Medal voting to include 150% weighting in Grand Final voting in a ludicrous and so far vain attempt to make all Grand Final BOG's look as good as Dusty by making it easier for them to win the Ayres Medal.

Otherwise we'd be 100 years down the track and Dusty would be the only player to have 3 Norm Smiths and also 3 Ayres Medals. But we here will remember Dusty won all his Ayres Medals with genuine consistently high class performances across 3 whole finals series.

 

[demondavey]

Hershelle Gibbs smashes 6 sixes in a walkover match v Associate team Netherlands off the bowling of Daan van Bunge, who never played first class cricket.

V

Dusty kicks 8 goals less than all 66 opposition players combined across 3 Grand Finals - which are the absolute pinnacle of Australian Rules football. While playing midfield. With short stints forward. Without counting his 5 goal assists. Or his 16 contested Sherrins per GF. Which won him 3 x the highest accolade in the sport, Norman Smith Medals. And 3 x an even higher accolade, Ayres medals.

Yeah, I can see how those achievements might look on a similar level to you JOB. But what Dusty did has no parallel in cricket. Nobody has done anything similar.

But but but Darren Jarman kicked 24 goals less than the 3 opposition teams combined in his 3 Grand Finals. Fagic( Fadge logic) turns that into > Dusty.

Martin has two club B&F and four AS jumpers. Been great in a GF situation but wasn’t better than Houli on at least one occasion.

He isn’t even better than Joel Selwood.

 

[BF Tiger]

This thread gets more ridiculous by the day. A bloke who has had 4 good seasons at most is not close to being the GOAT. The desperation by Tigers fans is getting rather sad to be honest.

4 good seasons… FMD. He’s been named in the AA squad eight times, made the team four times and been contentiously left out twice (2019, 2023). Previous to that he was twice selected in the 22 under 22 team.

Dusty was so good in those all time finals series he played that the corrupt AFL has even altered the Ayres Medal voting to include 150% weighting in Grand Final voting in a ludicrous and so far vain attempt to make all Grand Final BOG's look as good as Dusty by making it easier for them to win the Ayres Medal.

Otherwise we'd be 100 years down the track and Dusty would be the only player to have 3 Norm Smiths and also 3 Ayres Medals. But we here will remember Dusty won all his Ayres Medals with genuine consistently high class performances across 3 whole finals series.

Maybe recalculate Dusty’s Gary Ayres tallies with the 150% loading. Oh, just means he won by more.