Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[Gavin Excell]

He was the main man in 2019 after Mitchell missed the whole season with his broken leg.. Omera had some good games, but was too inconsistent...whilst 2019 was great for Worpel on a personal level, his 2020 and start to 2021 has been below average...if we had better depth at Box Hill he would be dropped this week. Other than maybe James cousins, who’s the same type as what we currently have in the midfield, there really isn’t anyone else..

it’s now a huge issue as Mitchell and Omera still have 4-5 years left and he can’t play in the same midfield as them.

Seems strange he can’t adapt to another position. Most teams run multiple players through the middle

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Or get our own state

I can certainly think of a state...

 

[parsons nose]

Burton AND Duursma have both had good starts to the year, Reckon Duursma has taken another step and was probably Port's best against Essendon.

Edit: Butters, but Duursma wasn't far behind.

Even the most ardent Hawkes supporter wouldn't be backing the trade at this point in time. Wingard is still an enigmatic player who's more icing that cake - on balance Port won that trade by a landslide.

yeah, that’s right if only we had of picked up Duursma and kept Burton. We probably would have won the GF last year.

 

[La Dispute]

yeah, that’s right if only we had of picked up Duursma and kept Burton. We probably would have won the GF last year.

You'd be a hell of a lot closer though, and again that is exactly what we are looking at.

If Hawthorn aren't be completing in the next few years then it's far more beneficial to have players on your list who are going to be in their prime when the Hawkes are in a position to challenge again.

It's not that trade was horrible in isolation, it's that the timing was off to bring a player like Chad into the club.

 

[Foucault1989]

How good is Jiath? One of my fave young guns rolling around. A few more years of good drafting than they will bounce back.

Worpel is a worry. I was debating Hawthorn fans a year ago when they said he was on par with Walsh.

 

[Chrisonater]

Burton AND Duursma have both had good starts to the year, Reckon Duursma has taken another step and was probably Port's best against Essendon.

Edit: Butters, but Duursma wasn't far behind.

Even the most ardent Hawkes supporter wouldn't be backing the trade at this point in time. Wingard is still an enigmatic player who's more icing that cake - on balance Port won that trade by a landslide.

We would of likely drafted Stocker was rumours in us trying to trade up as well to get him on draft day. Having Stocker and Burton wouldn’t make us better now of course and nothing pointing to them being world beaters anytime soon either. But agree our 2018 season gave us false hope and was the reason we traded Chad in.

 

[H2F]

After all these posts there was less than a kick in it between a side on the way up and a side who topped up and is seemingly having a last tilt. Based on what I’ve seen this year the thread should be changed to, ‘Can Geelong succeed regardless and of draft picks when they have a moron coach?’

 

[parsons nose]

And the year after..we desperately need a gun midfielder and key forward, we probably need two of each.

Backline is building very nicely.

We will see Conor downie this season, who will be a solid AFL wingman. Finn McGinness is building nicely in the VFL, playing as a tagger. He will eventually be a consistent AFL midfielder but we just lack class. We don’t have a bont, Fyfe, dusty, Pendlebury, petrecca type.

Tyler Brockman looks to finally be our Cyril replacement as well, which we have been desperate for.

Our biggest issue atm is James Worpel. He’s horribly out of form and simply can’t play in the same midfield as Mitchell, Omera and Shiels. His skills are not good enough to play as a half back or half back, so there isn’t a place for him. It will be interesting to see what Clarko does.

Day will move into the midfield and he’ll be our Pendlebury. Agree on the key forward front, but even then the days of 100 goals a season ff’s are well and truly gone. A good return for a full forward these days is 3 goals each week.

 

[parsons nose]

You'd be a hell of a lot closer though, and again that is exactly what we are looking at.

If Hawthorn aren't be completing in the next few years then it's far more beneficial to have players on your list who are going to be in their prime when the Hawkes are in a position to challenge again.

It's not that trade was horrible in isolation, it's that the timing was off to bring a player like Chad into the club.

You’re obviously not across the vagaries of our list; which by some quirk of fate has transformed into a list entirely of half back flankers of the Burton type. All the recent premiership teams have one thing in common- a top 5 pick that turned out to be an absolute gun. But the rub is that, even this strategy is fraught with danger, as any Carlton or GWS supporter can attest.

 

[WillHayward]

Or get our own state

Oh FFS .
You just won three flags.
Tigers just won three.

FFS.

Are you telling me Vic clubs are hard done by in the VFL?

Give it a rest.

 

[TheFourPillars]

No one knows who we would have picked BUT I can tell you that from the second round in 2017, I would take the following players now over Omera..keeping in mind we gave up a lot more than just the one pick.

- Oscar Allen- our key forward depth is the worst in the afl. He’s the exact player we need. Would be our number 1 forward. O’Brien is finished and kozi wouldn’t get a game for any other side. Mitch Lewis has potential to be a number 3, but his attitude so far has been disappointing.

- Tim Kelly- out midfield depth is weak..our midfield is slow and one dimensional...like Allen, an exact player we need

-Noah Balta- our half backs and running defenders are excellent but our key backs are a average at best. Hartigan and frost are a weak combo..hopefully DGB can turn into a gun defender but you need at least two to challenge for a flag.. Balta would be our best key defender

- Liam Ryan- would just about be our best player..have struggled to replace Cyril since he retired..Moore and Hanrahan won’t make it. Brockman looks like he will be a player but not close to the league Ryan is in.

Easy to take the pics now that uve seen them play. No one really knew about kelly and the cats picked him from obscurity and the others were also not well known prior to the draft

 

[Scotland]

After all these posts there was less than a kick in it between a side on the way up and a side who topped up and is seemingly having a last tilt. Based on what I’ve seen this year the thread should be changed to, ‘Can Geelong succeed regardless and of draft picks when they have a moron coach?’

Have they tried putting Blicavs into the ruck yet?

Geelong aren't that good. Despite having the most explosive midfielder in the comp and the Coleman medalist they revert to playing Ross Lyon footy under pressure. They will be a better team with Dangerfield back in and Cameron at CHF, but with those guys out they are nothing special.

 

[QuietB]

Oh FFS .
You just won three flags.
Tigers just won three.

FFS.

Are you telling me Vic clubs are hard done by in the VFL?

Give it a rest.

Four flags

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Easy to take the pics now that uve seen them play. No one really knew about kelly and the cats picked him from obscurity and the others were also not well known prior to the draft

What are recruiting staff for.

Everyone had the opportunity to look at and assess those players.

If Hawthorn put a priority on trading, it is just an admission they weren't working hard enough in the talent ID zone.

 

[Scotland]

Yesterday's game from Omera was elite.. the issue is, that's how he should be playing every week for us.. that is what we paid big $$$ and trade currency for...Since coming to us, you can count on one hand how many "elite" games he has played...he is a B grade midfielder that every other team has..plays one excellent game every 5 weeks.. that's only 4-5 a year...which is simply not good enough...with his injury history, our trade for him in hindsight was deplorable and one that set us back, especially with the shape of our list...

whilst i really like wingard as well, our trade for him was just as bad...Wingard is the type of player you get when you are in a premiership window for 3-4 years... we won't be playing finals for at least the next 3 years, if not longer and won't be challenging for a flag for at least another 5-6 years, he will be retired by then..

I got flamed for suggesting Wingard was a 'cream' player. Which he is. His best footy was at Port when they had Boak, Wines, Ebert, Gray, Cornes in the engine room and were a borderline top 4 side. I highly doubt he was recruited by anyone at the club who thought the team wouldn't be playing finals for 3-4 years.

People harp on about the uncertainty of the draft, but list profile is also important. Chances are you aren't going to get a player as good as Wingard at pick 15 or 18 or whatever it ended up being (Duursma, he's pretty good) but Wingard is 28 this year and probably gets paid $500-800k a season. If you aren't challenging during his prime then a first and second round pick plus a young player is a hefty price to pay.

 

[CobberRodgers]

That's 4 good players.
U need to nail the draft this year.

The next 3 years should net us some decent single digit picks.

We must nail the next 3 drafts, I don't think we can fix it in 1 or 2.

By fix it I mean be super competitive and challenge, not just not be sh!t.

 

[TheFourPillars]

What are recruiting staff for.

Everyone had the opportunity to look at and assess those players.

If Hawthorn put a priority on trading, it is just an admission they weren't working hard enough in the talent ID zone.

We made top 4 in 2018.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

We made top 4 in 2018.

Wasn't it 5th or 6th after straight setting?

The top 4 finish flattered Hawthorn pretty heavily.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Wasn't it 5th or 6th after straight setting?

The top 4 finish flattered Hawthorn pretty heavily.

ahh yes the flattery and that too pretty heavily. It doesn't matter we comfortably made finals. As opposed to the teams that didn't

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

ahh yes the flattery and that too pretty heavily. It doesn't matter we comfortably made finals. As opposed to the teams that didn't

Well, straight setting doesn't paint as rosy a picture as you would like.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Well, straight setting doesn't paint as rosy a picture as you would like.

We lost stratton our best defender in the game against Richmond. Till that point we were fairly competitive and then had Titch play the game against melbourne with a busted shoulder pretty early in the game. We didn't get blown out of the water in either game. In fact we were right in it at 3qtr time against melbourne. We didn't have the luxury of having two of our best players go down during finals. It wasn't as clear cut as you might imagine. We then of course lost titch for the season next year

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

We lost stratton our best defender in the game against Richmond. Till that point we were fairly competitive and then had Titch play the game against melbourne with a busted shoulder pretty early in the game. We didn't get blown out of the water in either game. In fact we were right in it at 3qtr time against melbourne. We didn't have the luxury of having two of our best players go down during finals. It wasn't as clear cut as you might imagine. We then of course lost titch for the season next year

Every team deals with injuries.

 

[WWSD]

Every team deals with injuries.

Hawthorn already beat all the finalists that year, except for Richmond.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Hawthorn already beat all the finalists that year, except for Richmond.

You can have the moral premiership, if you want?

Also, when did Hawthorn beat WCE in 2018? Preseason?

 

[Gavin Excell]

Hawthorn already beat all the finalists that year, except for Richmond.

And except also west coast